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What sorcery is this? Ainz vs Han

I don't believe so, no.

So even more against him, lol. His best chance would be if he made it so all magic was nullified at the start of the match, but I highly doubt that'll happen before grasp heart gg.
 
Hoo boy.

First things first, grasp heart is hardly happening.


Han'll throw golems at him while he watcges from afar, he'll be over 30 times faster, and he can see it coming to an extent with precov.

Second things second, magic manipulating and even buying time does exist, and Gaia claims that all magic is nullified, so time stop wouldn't work either, not under his best power null.

Magical items are also effected if not the church's masks wouldn't have been nullified. They aren't even part of yoohwa's powers, just what the puprle dude gave em. There is also the fact that the one claiming all magic is no u-d ia gaia, so we are at a point where neither series showed what that entails, because world itwms and gaia both are supposed to have a world behind th, but hardly have the feats.

Thirdly, han's time dilatation means that he'd have seven months to train, so he would be immensly faster, amongs other things.


As much as Ainz would win in a direct confrontation, Han would have tens of thousands of golems by then, be fast enough to blitz and could null magic after ainz decimates some of his golwms.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Second things second, magic manipulating and even buying time does exist, and Gaia claims that all magic is nullified, so time stop wouldn't work either, not under his best power null.

Thirdly, han's time dilatation means that he'd have seven months to train, so he would be immensly faster, amongs other things.


As much as Ainz would win in a direct confrontation, Han would have tens of thousands of golems by then, be fast enough to blitz and could null magic after ainz decimates some of his golwms.
Click to expand...
Give me feats or evidence of Han's nullification working on something as powerful as Time Stop (and I don't mean just stuff like Time Acceleration that Han seems to only possess for his main arsenal), or else that would be considered as NLF and thus not valid in a debate. Claiming that something can affect all categories of something, especially without any feats or evidence to showcase such, tends to all under the NLF category.

Also, how strong Han would get in comparison to Ainz is unquantifiable (especially with the huge AP gap, with Hans being a High 7-C at best in comparison to Ainz's 6-C). Even characters with Reactive Evolution requires feats or reliable statements to help basically showcase about how powerful they can exactly become, and we don't asssume that they get more powerful than their respective canons portrayed them to be without making it a NLF.
 
I mean, at the same time Han casts time acceleration x30, Ainz can cast grasp heart. If they both open with something thought based, then they'll occur at the same time.

Secondly, we literally don't know how Han's precog works, and it was stated that the future he predicts is uncertain anyway. So using this as an argument is inherently flawed. Especially since his precog has zero feats.

I also don't recall Han resisting the President's time stop. But I could be mistaken.
 
No, it misses how his null works. He nullifies the mana itself, making activating magic impossible. And The President for time stop bought time (and space and reality) and used it to forcibly stop Hwan.

His AP hardly matters, he can easly call nlf on Ainz's mind resistance amongst other things.
 
Okay...

Where are the feats/evidence of Hans being able to nullify or resist Death Manipulation? If Hans has any evidence of being able to resist/nullify such, then I can accept it. But if he doesn't, then I'm afraid that would also fall under the NLF category as well (especially since some of Ainz's Death spells are more higher-tiered than some of the others).
 
Grasp heart is not tought based. Death is, and it doesn't work from hundreds of meters. Plus, Ham would start out faster because of his training, and could just activate stat amps early.

His precog is uncertain because as shin explained ir, other people with precog can and do change the future. What he sees is at the very least possible.

It's magic, and his power's absolutes should also include that. Tough, again, he shuts of the mana itself, so the reast is hardly important.
 
... Again, Ainz cannot use anything that relies on mana if he gets it off. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have if you can't use it's fuel, unless the car doesn't need ut, which is true here too. His death hax does use mana.
 
Uh huh... And how can Han even pull that off when Ainz has a range advantage on him (thus, the starting distance becomes 4km), and thus Ainz can attack him from such a distance? Any evidence of Hans being able to pull all of that off at such a distance?
 
Grasp heart isn't thought based? What does it require?

I'd rather not assume that Han's entire combat speed would be strictly higher. He could do loads of things with that time. And more recently, he's been getting new skills as opposed to trying to purely level himself up.

Also, I think his largest time dilation was 300:1. Which is in terms of hours. Saying he'd have several months is a HUGE overestimation of his time dilation. At most he'd have a few hours.

Also, his precog still has zero feats, so it's literally a nonargument. Not to mention that we don't even have the proper translation for that ability regardless. We don't know how it works. So it's a nonfactor here. We don't even know if it's actually combat applicable.

Edit: Nvm, he has a week. I thought he had a minute. My mistake. Ignore my thing about leveling up in that case.
 
He can pull it of with a ridicolous speed enhancment, having hundreds to thousands of troops and having teleportation. And being able to teleport the both of them into a pocket dimension of his.
 
Litentric Teon said:
Grasp heart isn't thought based? What does it require?
Click to expand...
It is thought-based if Ainz decides to combine it with Silent Magic. Pretty much all of Ainz's spells are thought-based if he decides to "silently cast" them.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
...having teleportation. And being able to teleport the both of them into a pocket dimension of his.
Click to expand...
Ainz's Delay Teleportation kinda... Counters that. The part where Han can teleport himself.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
... Again, Ainz cannot use anything that relies on mana if he gets it off. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have if you can't use it's fuel, unless the car doesn't need ut, which is true here too. His death hax does use mana.
Click to expand...
You know Ainz's Wish Upon A Star (especially when he decides to use it with Shooting Star)? Well, apparently it doesn't use any MP (Mana Points, which I'm pretty sure that's what mana are in an MMO-like world such as Overlord anyways), and is apparently closer to a skill than a magic spell. So even if Hans tries to nullify Ainz's magic via depriving mana, I'm pretty sure that won't stop Ainz from using Wish Upon A Star on him.
 
Each at a time then:

He doesn't tend to always do that, and hardly from four kilometers away.

Delay teleportation can be nulled, and it only delays it so much. And the thousands of golems would likely take priority still.

It doesn't stomp him... but taking it out, raising his arms and maling a wish just asks to be mindhaxed by the dude who's over 30 times his own speed and knows that Ainz is far more powerful.

Won't be able to respond for a little. Also, I'll be calcing the exploding star thing Amaterasu has, could at least give a tier for the stronger magic in the verse.
 
That still doesn't mean that he wouldn't, and you can't truly assume that he "doesn't tend to always do that" when a character like Ainz hasn't even been in a situation where he needs to exploit range to such an extent (so you can't really argue that it's not normally in his character, especially when his entire class is built to exploit range, for him to not exploit range when there isn't even a situation that shows of Ainz's hesistance in exploiting range). We are debating about characers in a hypotheticle scenaro using all the information we possess, and I'm pretty sure Ainz is built to exploit range (due to having a magic caster's build and all).

Does it have any feats/evidence of nullifying teleportation-nullification magic? Also, Ainz wouldn't be completely alone in this as he would bring his entire undead army as well.

What are the numbers of people that Han has mind-haxed on-screen (or with reliable statements)? Because that's how we determine the potency of Mind Manipulation in this site. Also, Ainz's Shooting Star nullifying the cast time, as well as Ainz using Silent Magic, could probably make Wish Upon A Star thought-based as well (so he wouldn't need physical movement, or verbal words, to activate and use that spell).

And how would Han even know that Ainz is far more powerful when some of specific parts of Ainz's equipments blocks out divination-type magic (among other things)? Ainz has resistance to Informaton Analysis and Clairvoyance, so how would Han even find out about Ainz's capabilities? (For all Han knows, Ainz might as well be a walking, talking robed skeleton and not much else). Also, Ainz has already dealt with characters like Shalltear (who can also accelerate time, though I'm not sure to what extent, so it may or may not be as comparable as Hans' time acceleraton), so Ainz is not completely helpless against that due to have some experience against such. Plus, Ainz's Time Stop (which you have not provided any reliable arguments against such outside of mana deprivation, which Ainz could counter either with Wish Upon A Star or by staying at a great distance away by exploiting range advantage) is still a factor for this.
 
I'll answer on behalf of risci since he's gone atm.

Han's magic nullification has nulled teleportation before. It worked against this guy, who frequently used teleportation. It even nulled Han's own teleportation.

Han has various forms of mana nullification. They're listed on his profile, though if you'd like a run down, I can certain provide them.

His mindhax bypassed, and is superior to, the mindhax of Yoohwa Shi whose mind hax is potent enough to affect at leas the 400,000+ members of the Church of Mask at once. So Han's mindhax is fairly decent in terms of how we quantify potency on this site.

Han doesn't need to use observe to know that Ainz is more powerful. Given that they have a week, he can observe his strength with things like his kitties, send in his golems to try to fight him in order to ascertain his level, and even identify the level of his summons as they are likely wearker than Ainz himself. Not to mention that the Abyss would likely have information on Ainz that Han can gain for a price.
 
When has he even shown that amount of range with deat manip? Let alone focusing it on one character that he can't even see.

Can you not understand the no mana thing? It is getting repetitive. But yes, it nullified the seeker of truth's magic, including sorcerer's realm.

He states to be above yoohwa shin, who can mentally connect and brainwash 500,000 and believes to be able to do so to the whole world if given the chance.

He would know with, amongst other things, light speed attacks not doing anything to Ainz, him resisting divination and him being ready to use his powers in the real world, all three of which would make him think that ainz is part of the celestials. And not only has he not used the star in that way, that wouldn't really get him the win, since Han can hide himself from magical detection too, and the fact that ainz cannot attck during time stop, only delay magic to after it.

And the explosion came out at High 6-C with 164.053090058 gigatons.
 
So, Hans has dealt with teleportation and teleportation negation before. Okay then.

Most of them doesn't even seem to be thought-based, and I'm pretty sure it still doesn't cover the range advantage (and how fast can Hans even use his Time Acceleration anyways before Ainz uses his Time Stop once the match starts and the prep is over?)

So Hans has a good mindhax. Fair enough. How would that help against the range discrepancies and Ainz's thought-based spells though (like Silent Time Stop)?

And so could Ainz for observing him as well. Also, Ainz has experience with dealing with divination-type abilities and people who spies on him before, hence Ainz's paranoia about others observing him. So Hans attempts to observe him would just get blocked. Heck, some of Ainz's abilities specifically has anti-divination and anti-clairvoyance (hence, attempts to observe Ainz wouldn't be effective for the most part) and he's not afraid to use them, so how would Hans know how powerful Ainz even is from his attempts to observe Ainz alone? Also, what is the Abyss and what does it do? How in-character is Hans willing to use it? What are its exact mechanics?
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
When has he even shown that amount of range with deat manip? Let alone focusing it on one character that he can't even see.
Can you not understand the no mana thing? It is getting repetitive. But yes, it nullified the seeker of truth's magic, including sorcerer's realm.

He states to be above yoohwa shin, who can mentally connect and brainwash 500,000 and believes to be able to do so to the whole world if given the chance.

He would know with, amongst other things, light speed attacks not doing anything to Ainz, him resisting divination and him being ready to use his powers in the real world, all three of which would make him think that ainz is part of the celestials. And not only has he not used the star in that way, that wouldn't really get him the win, since Han can hide himself from magical detection too, and the fact that ainz cannot attck during time stop, only delay magic to after it.

And the explosion came out at High 6-C with 164.053090058 gigatons.
Click to expand...
Some of Ainz's instant death abilities are higher-tier spells... I don't see why it shouldn't scale by spell tiers alone. It's not like I'm trying to scale their range to Ainz's Greater Teleportation or anything. Also, Ainz being the highest ranked undead, can see through Invisibility (if that's not enough, he even has an ability called Arcane Vision/See Invisibility)... I'm pretty sure he can still see Hans if anything, unless Hans has some other abilities (that I'm not aware of) which are more than just invisibility.

And has Han ever deprived mana at such a huge distance? I know it is getting repetitive, but you haven't even truly answered for how Hans can close such a distance gap outside of Time Acceleration (and he would have to do that before Ainz decides to use Silent Time Stop).

Okay.

How would he even get the chance to use light-speed attacks agasint Ainz anyways, when the first thing Ainz would do is to either use instant death or Silent Time Stop on Hans? And is Hans even paranoid enough to assume that a completely unknown enemy could be as powerful as a higher entity? Also, when has Hans even have resistance to Information Analysis and Clairvoyance, when it isn't even listed in his profile? Are you talking about Hans' Space Control Barrier?

Great. Now you just need people (and the staff) to approve it, and then update Han's profile. I'm pretty sure that AP wouldn't be quite valid yet until it is listed on Hans' profile.
 
His time acceleration is tough based, but he starts faster because of his accelerated development.

That is what he could use after powernull.

Yeah, but Ainz resisting that stuff would be what made Han think that he's one of the top 1000, who he knows are superior to him. And the abyss is the supernatural world, mostly, and has several people that specify in getting knowledge, they would fails in thia case tough.


And my train arrived, so I'll leave the rest to litentric for now.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
His time acceleration is tough based, but he starts faster because of his accelerated development.
That is what he could use after powernull.

Yeah, but Ainz resisting that stuff would be what made Han think that he's one of the top 1000, who he knows are superior to him. And the abyss is the supernatural world, mostly, and has several people that specify in getting knowledge, they would fails in thia case tough.


And my train arrived, so I'll leave the rest to litentric for now.
Click to expand...
Again, unquantifiable amplication as the exact growth of Hans development is unknown. If we can't exactly estimate about how powerful a character gets, then it's not really valid to use in debates (I'm pretty sure this is how even the capabilities of Reactive Evolution characters are judged anyways, based on the evidence of how powerful they grow to be later). With speed equalised, I don't even know how much of a speed amp Hans would get. Does X30 mean that he gets 30 times his usual speed with Time Dilation?

And how would he even get there fast enough before Ainz uses Silent Time Stop? What stops Ainz from using Perfect Unknowable (making Hans hard-pressed to be able to detect Ainz as Perfect Unknowable is more than just invisiblity, it makes Ainz pretty much imperceptible by conventional means) and then surprise attacking Hans at a great enough distance (like using SIlent Time Stop on top of all the other spells). Also, I'm pretty sure Ainz not being able to harm his opponents inside a time stopped frame wouldn't change much, especially since some of Ainz's spells aren't even projectiles and affects his opponents directly after the time stop ends.
 
Please try not to quote large walls of text.

I think risci is saying that Han would enter the battle with 30x time acceleration already active since he has prep.

As far as his kitties, it's not like they're going to tell him Ainz's skills. They'll like cameras. So he'll know what Ainz is doing and what his preparations are. And be able to gleam some insight.

Also, I don't think risci said anything about Han having resistance to information analysis.
 
I mean, it is aplicable even if not with a direct number. He went from a normal human to his current self in two years, but he wasn't even abusing his time dilatation that much through it.

By having a 30 times speed amp and a 5 times tough speed amp on top of that. And with powernull, and by sending his golems while he just stays back and hides. And none of his magic works in time stop, Ainz simply delays them to after it, so they would still get nulled once time stop stops.
 
Then what's stopping Ainz from casting Silent Time Stop the moment the battle begins since he has prep? What's stopping Ainz from equipping his minions with Longinus and command that minion to erase Hans out of existence the moment the prep is over and the fight starts, as a backup procedure with prep? I'm pretty sure World Items don't use magic or even operate on mana, so mana deprivation should be ineffective against it. Also, Ainz has experience dealing with divination-type and clairvoyance-type abilities, which also includes surveilance/observatio.

Heck, I found this on the Overlord wikia: Additionally, Ainz states that he has an anti-scrying offensive barrier activated against divination magic, preventing enemies like the Sunlight Scripture from being observed by their higher-ups. With the barrier in use, he could as well as link another higher-tier attack spell of his own kind like a widened Explosion back to the user of divination magic from where they're located at.[10] Aside from that, his magic resistance can completely negate the effects of low to mid-tier spells, regardless of how powerful their casters were.

'''Anti-Information Magic Wall': It is a type of spell that prevents surveillance by others.

(Google's definition of surveillance): ' 'Surveilance: close observation, especially of a suspected spy or criminal.

So, I doubt Hans would even be able to observe Ainz with his abilities. The best he can do is assume Ainz's power, or gaining information in an another way outside of observation.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
I mean, it is aplicable even if not with a direct number. He went from a normal human to his current self in two years, but he wasn't even abusing his time dilatation that much through it.
By having a 30 times speed amp and a 5 times tough speed amp on top of that. And with powernull, and by sending his golems while he just stays back and hides. And none of his magic works in time stop, Ainz simply delays them to after it, so they would still get nulled once time stop stops.
Click to expand...
We still don't know the direct number, which you have admitted. Trying to estimate Han' growth outside of feats or reliable statements would involve speculation than anything else, thus it should not be valid to use in a debate. Hans would only get stronger by an unquantifiable amount really (and we know how unreliable a character's abilities are when they have the word "unquantifiable" in it).

Ainz can simply just use Silent Time Stop again and gain some distance after that (that is, if Han even manages to close that distance with a 30+ times speed amp). With enough time (that is, if Ainz doesn't get desperate and paranoid in the information he gains about Hans for his prep anyways), Ainz would definitely get desperate enough to use Wish Upon A Star on Hans. That is, if Hans didn't get erased from existence by one of Ainz's minions with Longinus already.
 
The same that stops Han from putting up magic null at the battle before it even starts. And the fact that longinus wouldn't work in time stop, and would be blitzed without it.

And I litirally gave you the feat of his increase over an year. He has more than half here, it is very much notable.

He won't be able to get far if han is in rnage. Teleportation is nulled, and he's too slow to hit Han with any non-magic stuff he has. If one of the minions went to him he'd blitz them to oblivion, power steal them in a pocket dimension, and then give a golem longinus.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The same that stops Han from putting up magic null at the battle before it even starts. And the fact that longinus wouldn't work in time stop, and would be blitzed without it.
And I litirally gave you the feat of his increase over an year. He has more than half here, it is very much notable.

He won't be able to get far if han is in rnage. Teleportation is nulled, and he's too slow to hit Han with any non-magic stuff he has. If one of the minions went to him he'd blitz them to oblivion, power steal them in a pocket dimension, and then give a golem longinus.
Click to expand...
Han's magic null are all spells/magic, correct? Also, Ainz could simply just put that minion at a great enough distance to use its existence erasure on Han before it gets blitzed by the 30+ speed amp. And with prep, Ainz could likely have some ways to hide it from Hans view once the fight starts. Silent Time Stop could help tell Ainz where Han is before he decides to command the minion to erase Han. It's not like Han has much of a reliable way to gain information about Ainz or the minion when most of what Ainz does in prep is to counter observation, clairvoyance, and divination while he prepares stuff.

His feats of getting that strong happens in a year. He only has 1 week prep in this, and I doubt Time Dilation is going to increase the duration of his growth much in comparison to that. Also, I hope you're not calc/multiplier/feat stacking (or stacking Han's capabilities based on how much he has grown the past to the presence), especially when it comes to Han's growth. If there are no feats or reliable statements that shows how powerful Han grows out to be in comparison to his current self (and I'm talking about his current self to his future self, not his past self to his current self. One's growth and progress could possible be different in comparison), then it shouldn't be valid to use in this match as it involves quite an amount of speculation.

He still has Wish Upon A Star, and he could use that to defeat Han. Again, the magic null are technically Han's spells/magic, correct?
 
Some are, the strongest is simply his golems.

I don't remember it ever being used at a range.

1 week which he can amply by 30 times with pocket dimension, and aplify by 30 further with time dilatation. And he grows in a mostly linear manner, due to the nature of his abilities. He goes from 10 to 20 times to 30 times time acceleration fo exemple.

Some are.
 
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