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FTFY.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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We Need to Talk About the Chaos Gods
- Thread starter Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot
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Also, aren't Daemon Primarchs too high? Magnus' feats are 2-C at best.
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Mostly agreed, though I think "At least 2-C" is fine because both were made clear to have been effortless.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The sky was on fire.
Lightning stabbed down in a frenzy from churning clouds. Tyranid feeding tubes broke and fell. A violent wind swept across the land.
Unclean energies spread through the sky, engulfing ships in writhing wreaths of hellish light. They burst and fell, burning with green flame. Reality quivered like a struck gong. All across the deserts of Baal, the tyranids stopped, and turned as one to face the heavens, their mouths open as wide as they would go.
The awful shriek came from a billion alien throats.
The hive mind was screaming.
- Devastation of Baal
Baal endured a cataclysm unfolding across the entire galaxy.
Darkness came to Baal as a shock of purple fire. The three worlds were engulfed in a haze of boiling energy that first swallowed the stars then obscured each of the trio from the other. On Baal Secundus, the astropaths of the Blood Angels, sheltered behind the ceramite wall of Carmine Blades, cried out and perished, leaving only a handful alive to experience the full horror of the warp unleashed. Deep in the Ruberica, Mephiston's coven of psykers reeled. Navigators aboard the embattled ships were blinded by soulfire. Librarians fighting in the Arx dropped convulsing to the ground, their teeth shattering under the force of their spasms.
Every mind felt the touch of the warp, whether great or small. Being blessed with a portion of their father's ­psychic might, the scions of Sanguinius were all troubled. Guns dropped from numb hands as visions of wars lost long ago filled their minds, and the rage stirred in the breasts of every one. The Tower of Amareo resounded to frenzied calls for blood and flesh.
But the sons of the Great Angel were less afflicted than their foe.
Screaming warp fire crashed against the gestalt soul of the tyranids, catching it unawares. The delicate synaptic web that bound its numberless minds into one being shrivelled like thread in a fire. Never before had the hive mind been so grievously wounded. Its control over its trillions of bodies was violently disrupted. Hive fleet was cleaved from hive fleet, brood from brood so catastrophically that for a moment the hive mind ceased to be. It recovered quickly, diminished but alive, but that moment seemed to the hive mind an eternity of darkness. Trillions of its creatures permanently lost touch with the hive mind, and were reduced to unthinking animals.
- Devastation of Baal
For the first time in its existence, the hive mind tasted death.
In the Baal system hundreds of thousands of tyranids died, their brain stems reduced to smoking mulch by psychic feedback. Aggressive void predators became drifting hulks in the space of an instant. In the strategium Dante collapsed, unconscious. Thousands of Space Marines of the Blood followed him. Many awoke with no memory of who they were, their scarred minds full of visions of Sanguinius' death. The end of their own lives in madness and blood beckoned.
The Cicatrix Maledictum had opened.
- Devastation of Baal
Will nidfags ever recover?
Lightning stabbed down in a frenzy from churning clouds. Tyranid feeding tubes broke and fell. A violent wind swept across the land.
Unclean energies spread through the sky, engulfing ships in writhing wreaths of hellish light. They burst and fell, burning with green flame. Reality quivered like a struck gong. All across the deserts of Baal, the tyranids stopped, and turned as one to face the heavens, their mouths open as wide as they would go.
The awful shriek came from a billion alien throats.
The hive mind was screaming.
- Devastation of Baal
Baal endured a cataclysm unfolding across the entire galaxy.
Darkness came to Baal as a shock of purple fire. The three worlds were engulfed in a haze of boiling energy that first swallowed the stars then obscured each of the trio from the other. On Baal Secundus, the astropaths of the Blood Angels, sheltered behind the ceramite wall of Carmine Blades, cried out and perished, leaving only a handful alive to experience the full horror of the warp unleashed. Deep in the Ruberica, Mephiston's coven of psykers reeled. Navigators aboard the embattled ships were blinded by soulfire. Librarians fighting in the Arx dropped convulsing to the ground, their teeth shattering under the force of their spasms.
Every mind felt the touch of the warp, whether great or small. Being blessed with a portion of their father's ­psychic might, the scions of Sanguinius were all troubled. Guns dropped from numb hands as visions of wars lost long ago filled their minds, and the rage stirred in the breasts of every one. The Tower of Amareo resounded to frenzied calls for blood and flesh.
But the sons of the Great Angel were less afflicted than their foe.
Screaming warp fire crashed against the gestalt soul of the tyranids, catching it unawares. The delicate synaptic web that bound its numberless minds into one being shrivelled like thread in a fire. Never before had the hive mind been so grievously wounded. Its control over its trillions of bodies was violently disrupted. Hive fleet was cleaved from hive fleet, brood from brood so catastrophically that for a moment the hive mind ceased to be. It recovered quickly, diminished but alive, but that moment seemed to the hive mind an eternity of darkness. Trillions of its creatures permanently lost touch with the hive mind, and were reduced to unthinking animals.
- Devastation of Baal
For the first time in its existence, the hive mind tasted death.
In the Baal system hundreds of thousands of tyranids died, their brain stems reduced to smoking mulch by psychic feedback. Aggressive void predators became drifting hulks in the space of an instant. In the strategium Dante collapsed, unconscious. Thousands of Space Marines of the Blood followed him. Many awoke with no memory of who they were, their scarred minds full of visions of Sanguinius' death. The end of their own lives in madness and blood beckoned.
The Cicatrix Maledictum had opened.
- Devastation of Baal
Will nidfags ever recover?
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@Matt
insert terrible Brazzers meme here
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lol.
But yeah.
What do you feel about what to do with Vaul, Morai-Heg, Khaine and the like? Do you think them only scaling to High 1-B due to only being barely comparable to the "physical" aspect of Slaanesh fair?
But yeah.
What do you feel about what to do with Vaul, Morai-Heg, Khaine and the like? Do you think them only scaling to High 1-B due to only being barely comparable to the "physical" aspect of Slaanesh fair?
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I agree FRA ovo
But seriously, I'm just going to follow this. This seems interesting.
But seriously, I'm just going to follow this. This seems interesting.
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Here's more,"he" give us more question:
"Hmmmm I will prefer quotes that directly referenced to complete Ynnead being completely above the Chao gods and its nature being similar to the 1-A aspects of the Warp/Realm.
@Aeyu I am aware of the Tiering System requirements for 1-A beings at the very least. However, your views from Tegmark's work, MUH, clashed with Gobel's incomplete theorm and it happen come into conflict with the Hilbert Space as this is basically it.
I managed to get my hands on some books on Google.
https://books.google.com/books?id=P...PsQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=hilbert space&f=false
This book is named "Quantum Mechanics in Hilbert Space". This seems a genuine theoretical physics book.
Another book I recommend reading will be this one:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_...PsQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=hilbert space&f=false
I gonna quote this from the first book I linked to you, friend:
"The above theorem does not apply to infinite-dimensional spaces. In fact, most of the operators of interest in quantum physics are unbound."
The said theorem in question happens to be an Schwarz-Cauchy inequality equation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy―Schwarz_inequality"
"Hmmmm I will prefer quotes that directly referenced to complete Ynnead being completely above the Chao gods and its nature being similar to the 1-A aspects of the Warp/Realm.
@Aeyu I am aware of the Tiering System requirements for 1-A beings at the very least. However, your views from Tegmark's work, MUH, clashed with Gobel's incomplete theorm and it happen come into conflict with the Hilbert Space as this is basically it.
I managed to get my hands on some books on Google.
https://books.google.com/books?id=P...PsQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=hilbert space&f=false
This book is named "Quantum Mechanics in Hilbert Space". This seems a genuine theoretical physics book.
Another book I recommend reading will be this one:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_...PsQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=hilbert space&f=false
I gonna quote this from the first book I linked to you, friend:
"The above theorem does not apply to infinite-dimensional spaces. In fact, most of the operators of interest in quantum physics are unbound."
The said theorem in question happens to be an Schwarz-Cauchy inequality equation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy―Schwarz_inequality"
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@Velox
Tegmark himself has made detailed rebuttals to detractors who have brought up MUH's incompatibility with Godel's incompleteness theorems. Furthermore, Type III multiverses are embedded in Hilbert Space to begin with; a Type IV multiverse under MUH and not CUH would necessitatively possess all possible universal structures under all mathematically possible scenarios.
Furthermore, consistency isn't necessarily an issue; mathematics has answers for inconsistent logic through paraconsistency and other advanced systems.
It's like with M-Theory. It may not be wholly accurate or even the most agreed upon String Theory anymore (F-Theory is gaining a lot of notoriety), but we use it as a scaling point anyway. The same should apply with Tegmark multiverses, whether they are "true" or not.
Tegmark himself has made detailed rebuttals to detractors who have brought up MUH's incompatibility with Godel's incompleteness theorems. Furthermore, Type III multiverses are embedded in Hilbert Space to begin with; a Type IV multiverse under MUH and not CUH would necessitatively possess all possible universal structures under all mathematically possible scenarios.
Furthermore, consistency isn't necessarily an issue; mathematics has answers for inconsistent logic through paraconsistency and other advanced systems.
It's like with M-Theory. It may not be wholly accurate or even the most agreed upon String Theory anymore (F-Theory is gaining a lot of notoriety), but we use it as a scaling point anyway. The same should apply with Tegmark multiverses, whether they are "true" or not.
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I mean, stupid response, but can we really apply this too Warhammer?Aeyu said:
Not saying it shouldn't but more so I don't think the Authors ever consider mathematical models when deciding what to write for their own verse tbh.
I wanna retract my original suggestion, I wanna read some more arguments before I decide.
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I was asked to post what's following. I have no opinion on the matter, nor didn't I fully read through it to know what it says.
""@Aeyu [This just in from Max Tegmark himself!]
Thanks Massimo for the fun conversation during the interview and for raising these important questions! They are excellent ones, and a key reason why I spent three years writing this book is because I wanted to make sure to finally answer them all properly. Needless to say, I couldn't do justice to them in our short interview, so I'm very much look forward to hear what you think about my detailed answers in chapters 6, 10, 11 and 12. I think you'll find that our viewpoints are closer than your post suggest - for example, your statement "Tegmark assigns lower weights to more complex structures" is not something you'll find in the book. Rather, I describe how the measure problem is a terrible embarrassment for modern cosmology (regardless of whether the MUH is true or not) that we need to solve, and that our untested assumption that truly infinite things exist in nature are my prime suspect: we've never measured anything to better than 17 decimal places, have only 10^89 particles in our universe, and manage to do all our publishable physics simulations with computers that have finite resources, so even though my physics courses at MIT use infinity as a convenient tool, I respectfully object to your "OPS" argument that we somehow have experimental evidence for infinity in physics. Without infinity, there are, as you say, no Gödel issues in our physics."
""@Aeyu [This just in from Max Tegmark himself!]
Thanks Massimo for the fun conversation during the interview and for raising these important questions! They are excellent ones, and a key reason why I spent three years writing this book is because I wanted to make sure to finally answer them all properly. Needless to say, I couldn't do justice to them in our short interview, so I'm very much look forward to hear what you think about my detailed answers in chapters 6, 10, 11 and 12. I think you'll find that our viewpoints are closer than your post suggest - for example, your statement "Tegmark assigns lower weights to more complex structures" is not something you'll find in the book. Rather, I describe how the measure problem is a terrible embarrassment for modern cosmology (regardless of whether the MUH is true or not) that we need to solve, and that our untested assumption that truly infinite things exist in nature are my prime suspect: we've never measured anything to better than 17 decimal places, have only 10^89 particles in our universe, and manage to do all our publishable physics simulations with computers that have finite resources, so even though my physics courses at MIT use infinity as a convenient tool, I respectfully object to your "OPS" argument that we somehow have experimental evidence for infinity in physics. Without infinity, there are, as you say, no Gödel issues in our physics."
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Not sure. Morai-Heg clearly has quite a high level of influence, and Khaine did go toe-to-toe with Slaanesh immediately after it had consumed much of the rest of the pantheon, but it's hard to say.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Also why is there now discussion on Tegmark's work, here? lmao
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Aeldari Pantheon is very confusing to tier.
This also reminds me that the novel Lukas the Trickster has quite a lot of stuff on Cegorach, as Lady Malys is a major character in it.
This also reminds me that the novel Lukas the Trickster has quite a lot of stuff on Cegorach, as Lady Malys is a major character in it.
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Especially because, unlike with the Chaos Gods, the power difference between some of them is absolutely ludicrous.
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Also Asuryan at his peak seemed to basically rule the Warp when the Aeldari Empire was at the height of its power, which is just... what.
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If we go by Eldar Mythology, Asuryan is hilariously above everyone, except Morai-Heg debatably.
But then Slaanesh unceremoniously eats him. Then again, both the Phoenix Lord novels and Valedor imply that Asuryan still lingers.
But then Slaanesh unceremoniously eats him. Then again, both the Phoenix Lord novels and Valedor imply that Asuryan still lingers.
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They'll probably fully retcon Asuryan to having done...a thing and having it go just as planned. IDK.
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Asurmen outright insists that Asuryan is still alive and speaks directly to him, but other characters usually explain this as Asuryan having set up the Phoenix Lords in motion with his drying whispers and this is what Asurmen hears.
But then you have shit like the ending of Valedor, with Yriel praying on the Shrine at the heart of Iyanden, which has its cerimonial pyre with the Flame of Asuryan no longer burning since Hive Fleet Kraken attacked the Craftworld. Yriel hears no response or sign from the dead Eldar gods, and leaves the shrine frustrated, but then as he leaves and the Shrine is empty the flame mysteriously lits open again.
By the way, where does the whole "Ynnead is formed from the remaining psychic power of Asuryan" come from?
But then you have shit like the ending of Valedor, with Yriel praying on the Shrine at the heart of Iyanden, which has its cerimonial pyre with the Flame of Asuryan no longer burning since Hive Fleet Kraken attacked the Craftworld. Yriel hears no response or sign from the dead Eldar gods, and leaves the shrine frustrated, but then as he leaves and the Shrine is empty the flame mysteriously lits open again.
By the way, where does the whole "Ynnead is formed from the remaining psychic power of Asuryan" come from?
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@Matt
"By the way, where does the whole "Ynnead is formed from the remaining psychic power of Asuryan" come from?"
90% sure it's a fan theory that could possibly come true, though I might be forgetting something that more directly hints at this.
Anyway, we should probably get around to finalizing new ratings. Modifying the previous one a bit, I think something along these lines is good.
The only things I'm really unsure about are where the Void Dragon should be ("At least 1-B, possibly High 1-B" or "At least 1-B, likely High 1-B") and how best to word the Hive Mind's tier.
"By the way, where does the whole "Ynnead is formed from the remaining psychic power of Asuryan" come from?"
90% sure it's a fan theory that could possibly come true, though I might be forgetting something that more directly hints at this.
Anyway, we should probably get around to finalizing new ratings. Modifying the previous one a bit, I think something along these lines is good.
- At least 1-C, likely 1-B, possibly higher: The Hive Mind
- 1-B: Weaker C'tan, lesser Eldar Gods
- At least 1-B, possibly High 1-B: Nightbringer, Vaul (unsure of if we should specify that he only fought Khaine after forging a weapon to do so, which is his strong suit)
- At least 1-B, likely High 1-B: Asuryan, Khaine, Kairos, Skarbrand Gork n' Mork
- At least High 1-B, likely 1-A: Chaos, the Emperor's will
- 1-A: Complete/fully realized Ynnead
The only things I'm really unsure about are where the Void Dragon should be ("At least 1-B, possibly High 1-B" or "At least 1-B, likely High 1-B") and how best to word the Hive Mind's tier.
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Void Dragon should be Likely High 1-B
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So the "Asuryan, Khaine, etc." tier, then?
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yes.
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Alright.
...Now what do we do?
...
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We figure out the AP descriptions.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
Human Resources
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@Wokistan
Infinite multiversal feat + several higher dimensions.
The problem is it isn't his feat.
@Matt
Give me a sec and I'll bang something out.
Infinite multiversal feat + several higher dimensions.
The problem is it isn't his feat.
@Matt
Give me a sec and I'll bang something out.
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@azzy
Answer our talk on your wall when you have the time.
Answer our talk on your wall when you have the time.
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@Matt
I would if wikia actually kept alerting me.
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High 1-A GORK AND MORK!!!DMUA said:
ORKZ FOREVAAAAA!!
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Why Gork and Mork are so weak? They should be beyond Chaos. http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142728/4685350-3851154-000.jpg It is also supported by their new codex (7 edition)Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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That's Ork Mythology.
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So, we doing the upgrades or not? Everyone seems to agree. We can *ahem* "buff out" the others later imao.
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It sounds like a Word of God/Author to me.Matthew Schroeder said:
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