We inconned with Ashen One: Kyuss vs Kenshiro

[Stillwinston]

Its probably a bad idea, but these guys managed to incon with Ashen One. So wanna see how this goes.

Speed is equalised. Both are 6-B so Kenshiro is using Tenryu Kokyu Ho, Kyuss has no prep time. Fight takes place in a desert.

Big worm boi: 3

Atatatatatata!: 0

Ashen One claps at the result: 0

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kyuss,_the_Worm_that_Walks

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kenshiro_(Hokuto_no_Ken)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fascinating, someone using Kyuss.

Should be noted that Kyuss can be killed by just squashing the bugs, but you need to discorporate him first. Not impossible, just very hard- the long and short of this is you need to knock out enough of the stability to knock him over. However if even one bug escapes, Kyuss will just regenerate.

Here I'll throw in the normal Kyuss-Resists-Most-Abilities-Of-Ken. Even if they didn't outright resist pressure points just negging your life (among other things), I should think being made of tons of bugs makes it kind of hard to pressure point them. Even Muso Tensei is resisted due to resisting EE (see: unaffected by creatures such as Ithyak-Ortheel)

To speak of Kyuss' more combat oriented abilities, a few simple actions on his part would wrap this up nicely. A single infection would render Ken a Spawn of Kyuss, effectively incapacitated. He can rip the blood from Ken's body with a single action, or just BFR him to some other plane of existence. Matter manipulation would reduce Ken to dust in seconds, or liquid, depending on the method you pick. Paralysis, sleep, and others don't hurt for temporary incap, either.

Doesn't hurt that Kyuss can teleport and become invisible, too. Not my core points, but both useful.

So... obviously I vote for Kyuss.

 

[00potato]

Why would a pile of worms be affected by pressure points?

 

[Stillwinston]

Can't Ken just zap them with a ki blast? That being said Kyuss can probably harm Ken in Muso Tensei so there is that

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can't Ken just zap them with a ki blast? That being said Kyuss can probably harm Ken in Muso Tensei so there is that

Sure, but that's just AP. It isn't even really special AP when monks use Ki for basically everything. So while he could attack them, I'm not denying that, Kyuss has a lot more methods and could just use hax nigh-on instantly.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why would a pile of worms be affected by pressure points?

I don't think he could, hence my statement of his pressure points not really being useful in this particular fight.

 

[Stillwinston]

On a side note how good is the precog related stuff here for both?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Precog for Kyuss isn't hugely combat applicable, since his is pretty much "Here's the steps you need to reach this point in time to create your new Age"

 

[Stillwinston]

Ah okay, Ken does resist Precog at any rate. What about Kyuss does he resist iirc it says clairvoyance but not sure if that carries over

 

[Moritzva]

Fairly sure Ken pressure pointed a literal tank once, dunno about a pile of worms.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not so much resist as mild precog just isn't super helpful in-verse. TL;DR, Psions can see some time into the future (no more than a minute, though, this is 1st level stuff after all) but it doesn't really do a ton. I don't know how it'd help Ken here if he just pops in, sees the future where he gets blood-ripped/disintegrated/BFR'd/etc, and then it happens.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Fairly sure Ken pressure pointed a literal tank once, dunno about a pile of worms.

Ken has used pressure points on air and walls as well.

 

[Stillwinston]

Iirc Ken does pressure point a tank, I wanna argue that's good enough to say he could jab a bunch of worms but idk >_>

 

[Moritzva]

The most chad man I know, pressurepointing literal air. Take that, O'Hare.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fairly sure Ken pressure pointed a literal tank once, dunno about a pile of worms.

Even then, D&D resists pressure points by courtesy of the monk. The pile of worms thing was just sort of icing on the cake.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ken pressure pointing a tank, however TF that works, was an anime only feat iirc.

Aside that, this would depend if Ken even goes for Muso Tensei first or not. Though seeing who or what he's fighting against, he'd probably precog in knowing that using any of his usual attack options won't work on it and he'll likely use it right there and then.

Though it says Kyuss has NEP that allows him to hit non-existents, intangibles and abstracts on "multiple planes of existence" on his page so if Kyuss has some potent hax that can end Kenshiro in a single move and he has the ability to affect people like Ken (in his MT state), Ken's in trouble if not dead.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Though it says Kyuss has NEP that allows him to hit non-existents, intangibles and abstracts on "multiple planes of existence" on his page so if Kyuss has some potent hax that can end Kenshiro in a single move and he has the ability to affect people like Ken (in his MT state), Ken's in trouble if not dead.

See my first comment. Blood rip, paralysis, sleep, BFR, disintegrate, so on and so forth.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

"To speak of Kyuss' more combat oriented abilities, a few simple actions on his part would wrap this up nicely. A single infection would render Ken a Spawn of Kyuss, effectively incapacitated. He can rip the blood from Ken's body with a single action, or just BFR him to some other plane of existence. Matter manipulation would reduce Ken to dust in seconds, or liquid, depending on the method you pick. Paralysis, sleep, and others don't hurt for temporary incap, either."

Yeah, Ken's not gonna live through any of that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

so uh bump, my vote is still for Kyuss

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I'm also going for Kyusd given what's said.

It seems like Hokuto Shinken won't mean anything, Nanto Seiken likely won't do lasting damage and probably Gento Koken, and Kenshiro going Muso Tensei isn't going to matter if Kyuss can affect people like him. Combined with the fact Ken doesn't resist blood, biological and or transmutation, BFR, etc. hax, I can't see a viable way for Ken to get any solid hits in.

 

[Axl233]

Fairly sure Ken pressure pointed a literal tank once, dunno about a pile of worms.

Even then, D&D resists pressure points by courtesy of the monk. The pile of worms thing was just sort of icing on the cake.

when it was stated that dnd monsters resist pressure points?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Stated? Never, but you can save against the Monk moves like Quivering Palm (5e, I think that was the name) that just pokes you until you vibrate to death.

 

[00potato]

You can save against it, so it working isn't consistent so Ken might be able to get him after a few strikes.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You can save, so you have resistance. So no. Ken won't be able to get him after a few strikes nor do I think Ken will get the chance, considering Kyuss can hand wave blood-rip gg, among others.

 

[00potato]

The resistance isn't consistent though, you can save against it but you aren't immune to it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is if you stop considering game mechanics. Take 10, buddy.

 

[00potato]

You can save against most things in D n D Is any spell or ability actually functioning game mechanics or is the save resistance game mechanics? It really just seems that you are looking for the interpretation that benefits you the most as their is no evidence for a consistent resistance.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The resistances aren't game mechanics because they are described in-game. Rolling a dice is game mechanics because it's literally rolling a dice. Ergo, this site assumes baseline non-resistance is 10 on a Save (i.e., average roll, this is acknowledged in rulebooks) and any save value added to that is a new layer of resistance.

 

[00potato]

Just because you roll a dice in game doesn't mean that you can just ignore how the resistances work. For example some monsters have consistent resistances to certain damage types, that insinuates that the monster is always resistant to that. What the existence of saves tells us is that something can be defended against but not always. If they wanted a character to have a consistent resistance to something then they would have put that on the stat block rather then in the form of saving throws.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's almost like we're on a wiki where we don't use game mechanics to justify things. And rolling a dice is game mechanics. In a game.

This has been argued before and rejected, to be absolutely transparent before. The fact that you politely ignore the existence of Take Ten is also an interesting point. Since it negates everything you've said. You can take ten, i.e., an average roll. Meaning yes, you can consistently resist things. Hence my explanation above. Please, stop derailing the thread, it isn't often I get a D&D thread I actually like and would rather not kill it explaining the same thing again.

 

[Axl233]

Not really even with a save a chunk of your body explodes and you take 10d10 necrotic damage instead of a insta death.

"Ken wins via monks being to broken for dnd"

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Gygax (creator of DnD) spoke a bit on the whole "effects of if you save take this lesser effect" once in a talk about why soulless monsters still take damage from soul attacks. Basically, yeah, the spells still carry damage, so you still get damaged even if you resist.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

bump I guess

 

[Overlord775]

Considering that Ken would have a very hard time to destroy each and every one of the worms, since Kyuss resists all his hax and has higher AP, and that Kyuss can multiple ways to instantly kill him, i am pretty sure this is a stomp

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> higher AP

I was with you until this point. D&D 6-B is quite literally baseline.

 

[Overlord775]

12.35 teratons is almost double baseline tho

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I know. But they aren't 12.35 teratons. The calc is accepted at the low-end. They have "Possibly 6-B" since it is basically on the cusp of 6-B. Hence, baseline.

 

[Overlord775]

Ok, but still

Kenshiro has to punch each and every one of those like thousands of worms individually to win

Kyuss thinks or waves his hand and wins

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah when it's put like that it sounds kinda stompy though Ken doesn't have to just punch as a ki beam might work too. Should we call it quits? I've got another Kyuss match idea on the list at any rate

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ok, but still
Kenshiro has to punch each and every one of those like thousands of worms individually to win

Kyuss thinks or waves his hand and wins

Not sure if he'd have to kill every one individually when he has AoE but sure, point ceded I guess.