Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!

[LordGinSama]

It's less about switching styles and more about having full control over his own rhythm/flow, as all combat "geniuses" in The Boxer have. He still has a style primarily rooted in boxing but he has the ability to control the tempo, which even low-tier geniuses in The Boxer have.

Sounds pretty ture to boxing then tbh, it's all about predicting the opponent's moves based on the opponent own telegraphing with the shoulders, hips and feet.


Which is why Ali was a beast, wasn't just his sheer speed but the fact that he kept changing his rhythm.

 

[azontr]

Sounds pretty ture to boxing then tbh, it's all about predicting the opponent's moves based on the opponent own telegraphing with the shoulders, hips and feet.

Literally a thing brought up in The Boxer lol.

 

[Shmooply]

Sounds pretty ture to boxing then tbh, it's all about predicting the opponent's moves based on the opponent own telegraphing with the shoulders, hips and feet.


Which is why Ali was a beast, wasn't just his sheer speed but the fact that he kept changing his rhythm.

 

[LordGinSama]

Literally a thing brought up in The Boxer lol.

Gaolang and Yu tbh.

 

[azontr]

Ironic you brought that up, cause both Kengan and The Boxer have layered analytical prediction and analytical prediction resistance

 

[InfiniteDay]

Realised that we ain't got no nominations tradition or modern martial arts, so if yall wanna nominate people that'd be great.

 

[azontr]

Been waiting for people to make nominations for those categories, but people seem more focused on sword and miscellaneous lol

 

[LordGinSama]

Been waiting for people to make nominations for those categories, but people seem more focused on sword and miscellaneous lol

******* actual weebs. Real men fight with their hands, not weapons.


Ohma, Baki and Yu be stomping most of these character if we only use hands and no weapons.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

These skill guys always have a few things in common don't they. Going over Cid's stuff

Technique copy: Probably not Cid's strongest aspect, but he can copy techniques he has seen only once.

Info Analysis: With just a glance he can figure out his opponents and know exactly how a fight would go.

Analytical Prediction: Can perceive purpose in the smallest of actions such as a tremor in a sword’s tip, a shift in gaze, the position of the feet, and prepare a superior response. Literally just staring at someone he can predict the future of a fight, and prepare countermeasures

Senses: Can hear almost everything in cafeteria, those who have his power can: sense the subtle movements in the air, see a town in the distance from the slim gaps between the trees in a forest. smell water far away, see in the dark, perceive wavelengths etc

Stealth: Idk if this is even worth talking about, but everyone of his subordinates can conceal their presence, they can also have no bloodlust, nor make any sound, against other skill people who are have enhanced senses, and Cid's stealth is beyond them, they can't sense him, basically if he is standing in a place, it would be no different than if nothing is there, he is one with the very environment itself.

Instinctive Reaction: Less skilled people can react to things without thinking, and stuff they aren't aware of. Again less skilled people can immediately react to dangerous attacks the instant it happens, reacting to stuff they can't even see. Even while nerfed Cid can block attacks coming from all directions, and in his blind spots.

Body Control: Can manipulate his heart to play dead, literally stopping it, has complete control over his bones, muscles etc, thus can do things like move his vitals around to avoid fatal attacks. he also uses this to defend and attack at the same time, essentially he stops his opponents weapon in his body by manipulating his muscles, then attacks their vitals.

AccelDev: Cid is always passively getting stronger, and in a fight can become and more "refined", ie if it took 10 steps to dodge something before, very quickly it's gonna become 0, being able to dodge things by making microscopic movements. His strongest attack in vol 2 was a nuke, he got so much stronger in the span of weeks maybe? Then his normal magic became far above that, with his strongest not only being above his magic, he can use it for other things besides nuking an area, like healing everyone around him, and making kilometer long swords, that hit everything to the horizon.

Social influencing: Does this even count as skill? He is an exceptionally good bullshiter, who has geniuses who can recreate stuff from other worlds they haven't even seen, nor giving detailed about, convince that he has divine knowledge. Also convinced someone who runs and controls an entire city, and basically the underworld of the world, that he has flawless intelligence.

Martial Arts/Sword mastery: By the age of 16 in his previous life, he had already mastered all martial arts from boxing to swordplay. After reincarnating, is only 15, and has mastered countless martial arts within the new world, and developed his own styles, which have the best feature of every martial arts he knows. He entered a martial arts tournament which had the best martial artists in the world, and basically played around using a sword style he made to be fancy. That sword style is the absolute pinnacle of martial arts which can't be achieve even with centuries of training, and his real sword style is not only beyond that but is stated to be imperceivable, think Ikki Trackless Step, it basically takes advantage of the unconscious mind.

And then i guess would be the common thing for skilled people? Beating people they should have no business beating. In verse characters can go from being killed by ordinary bullets to being superhumans who can cut buildings in half, magic is what makes them powerful. So while having his magic shut off and absorbed, he fights a hero of legend, whose magic isn't nerfed. So while nerfed, despite being far far inferior in all areas, manages to not only dodge attacks, which he had no business doing, described by those observing as a "miracle", it then continued to happened, making it clear it's no miracle, he is just that skilled. The characters write him off as being impressive for doing that, but there is no way he could actually beat a hero with no magic and no weapon right? Wrong he does just that, while having severe injuries, and not only wins, he had gotten stronger/analyzed the stuff nerfing him, to get his magic back.

 

[azontr]

That's fine and dandy Pegasus but what spot are you aiming for

 

[Bobsican]

For the record, to avoid some potential skill downplay in the future, I could make a far better argument for Sora being more skilled than Sion, Roxas simply is rather lacking in feats/scaling for the most part.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's fine and dandy Pegasus but what spot are you aiming for

I mean firstly i just want people to know about the skilled resident Chuuni, him getting a spot is secondary.

Whichever works here.

 

[azontr]

No ambition smh smh.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Pretty sure people like Yu are easy to debate on since they've undoubtedly had skill threads posted elsewhere.

 

[azontr]

Pretty sure people like Yu are easy to debate on since they've undoubtedly had skill threads posted elsewhere.

I'd know, I've made them all.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I'd know, I've made them all.

Well if you wanna get a debate started, why not post one you've made?

 

[First_Witch]

This is some defeatis sounding shit and dont worry, Im perfecty fine.

But if someone challenges Sions spot again and ya all agree that they outskill Sion, just give them her placement. This is dead tiring and I'm having my hands full doing actual work for the Series.

 

[azontr]

Well if you wanna get a debate started, why not post one you've made?

I'll prolly just make another one. Each one I've made is varying in length/detail so it'd be weird for me to only select a single one.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I'll prolly just make another one. Each one I've made is varying in length/detail so it'd be weird for me to only select a single one.

Nah it's fine, Yu probably gets bodied by some random chinaman skill god anyway

 

[azontr]

I mean I ain't expecting Yu to unironically go up against the Chinese yall all my "Yu solos" jokes are just that, jokes-

 

[InfiniteDay]

I mean I ain't expecting Yu to unironically go up against the Chinese yall all my "Yu solos" jokes are just that, jokes-

"Goku solos" fans in shambles rn

 

[azontr]

real.

 

[azontr]

I said I'd make a skill list for "The Boxer", so here it is. This is for a singular character, though, so it's not truly complete and I did cut a few corners, but it's what I had on hand.

Spoiler: I spent 15 minutes writing this, appreciate it

To even compete as a Boxer in the series, one has to train for years to read their opponent's movements, the movement of their shoulders, footwork, rhythm, and habits, anything that they can use to dodge attacks they normally would be unable to perceive without analytical prediction. Even the weakest Boxers are capable of doing this.

Gifted Boxers (or "Geniuses" as they are refereed to) possess a unique set of movements that provide inhuman fluidity and the ability to control the flow of their power perfectly, making them inherently far more skilled than the average Boxer, as the average "Genius" was capable of effortlessly toying with the 3rd ranked Boxer in all of Korea, who would obviously also scale far higher than the average Boxer. This "Genius"(Baeksan Ryu) also had absolutely 0 formal training in terms of combat, meaning his inherent combat skill was already on the level where he could do that, and effortlessly defeat multiple gangsters with movements that an experienced boxing coach said he had "never seen before".

Another thing inherent to geniuses is their unpredictability due to the "flow" or "freedom" of their movements previously mentioned, which makes it so that their movements cannot be anticipated by those with inferior "freedom".

Jean is inherently far, far superior to people like Baeksan Ryu, who is inherently far superior to people like Siha Lee, who without any formal training, is capable of predicting movements by storing information, allowing him to predict the dozens of possible movements throughout an entire boxing match, which scales far above a normal Boxer's analytical prediction.

In terms of scaling, it goes as follows for analytical prediction:

Baseline Boxer Analytical Prediction < Steel's analytical prediction (That's the guy whose ranked 3rd in Korea BTW) < Baseline Genius Analytical Prediction resistance << Siha Lee's analytical prediction and resistance < Baeksan Ryu's analytical prediction resistance << Jean Pierre Manuel's Analaytical Prediction and resistance Pre-Evolution < Post-Evolution Jean Pierre Manuel's Analytical Prediction and resistance (I know the resistances aren't on the profiles yet but I have to put them in the list anyway). So in terms of layers, Jeanne scales to about 5-8 layers of analytical prediction and resistance.

To get into his general skill, Jean's movements were stated to be so precise that K, a legendary Boxing Coach who has trained multiple World Champions that have gone down in the history books, acknowledged that he was a True Boxer that looked to endlessly sharpen his skills to the pinnacle of technique constantly, and was capable of making absolutely perfect decisions on the fly, utilizing his range and unpredictability to make it impossible to gauge the distance or timing of his punches.

Jean's focus is as such that he spends countless hours training his perception down to the cellular level to gain complete control over his body. To put it into perspective, a master of meditation is capable of, without any formal training, is capable of clearly hearing their own heartbeart as they concentrate. Jeane, as a master of meditation, allows him to properly visualize and control his own heartbeat, his muscles and blood flow, and even the individual neurons in his brain.

Jean improves his skill at a staggering pace, both through shadowboxing, and through combat, as through being put through life-threatening situations, he is capable of breaking his limits and evolving his skills even further than before, giving him even higher skill and perception. After breaking his limits, Jean became capable of perceiving the world with enhanced, supernatural clarity, where he can vividly visualize and control his body's functions. This is described as a world where every moment of time feels sharp and everything is completely clear.

Also, I did make a skill thing for Jean Pierre Manuel, and Yu scales above this.

It could most definitely use some polishing though, now that the new analytical prediction scaling has been accepted.

 

[LordGinSama]

Tbh if your "skill" comes from a block of text and nothing else I don't even wanna hear it.

Show me a mf getting knocked out gracefully and that right there is true skill to me. Not this shit about infinite skill, eons of experience or soloing armies. my navy seal foster dad high key skill stomps this thread while he was in his prime.

 

[azontr]

Tbh if your "skill" comes from a block of text and nothing else I don't even wanna hear it.

Basically my fanfic OCs I wrote when I was 14 and still write today

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Tbh if your "skill" comes from a block of text and nothing else I don't even wanna hear it.

Show me a mf getting knocked out gracefully and that right there is true skill to me. Not this shit about infinite skill, eons of experience or soloing armies. my navy seal foster dad high key skill stomps this thread while he was in his prime.

Dude fr. RWBY mf have to show a entire chain of text meanwhile for Yu, Ohma, and Baki we can show like one scan to show that there more skilled lmao

 

[azontr]

Also Gin having a navy seal foster dad is metal as ****.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also Gin having a navy seal foster dad is metal as ****.

Wasn't even born in the US either lmfao he came to Canada after the service and I was born in Germany.

 

[azontr]

Bruh that's rad af

 

[Bobsican]

I'm bored, I'm going to argue for Roxas again as I'm noticing most of the arguments for him were terrible and could be substantiated far more, plus some of Sion's stuff isn't even skill for the purposes in here.

Accelerated Development:

- With only about a year of adventures across the multiverse and with next to no training besides his own, Roxas quickly went from the weakest Organization XIII member to one of the strongest.

General Skills and Moveset:

- Roxas has a large variety of techniques (explanation video here) that he can do with the Keyblade for offensive purposes, of note is that while he started as merely wielding a single Keyblade, eventually he awakens the capability to dual wield them, and does so very well, seen in cases like Roxas using this to manage a crowd of high-level Heartless. I should reiterate the dual wielding part, as that's a really notable feat in coordination skill as stated here. Sora could also deflect an omnidirectional danmaku alongside Riku shortly after, so it'd be fair to say Roxas is around that level.

- Just like Sora, Roxas also shares a notable amount of mobility options, such as the capability to perform multiple aerial dashes, recover quickly after being sent flying, quick movement to behind a target, and flight while reacting to multiple hazards in real time.

- As it was mentioned before, Roxas could keep up with an opponent even after having his weapons stolen, with the guy in question triple wielding against him, yet Sora eventually just gets overwhelmed and would have lost were it not for him surprising Roxas by teleporting his Keyblade back, Sora himself is notable as is out of a good chunk of what's mentioned here in that period of time.

- Lore-wise, Roxas is made of Sora's body and soul, and so he'd inherently get the same physical attributes, even if he inherited the appearance of Ventus out of lore reasons. Even so, Roxas could keep up with Saix, who can do stuff like this and has overwhelmed Sora as well. Beings like Roxas are regarded in the Age of Fairytales (which inherit his power, and are already aware of Keyblade Masters themselves) as "unimaginable forces of the future".

- Xion as a whole deserves a mention as Roxas was capable of defeating her even while being up to 4 times weaker than her, and she does stuff like this, which would require a quite high level of skill to keep up with out of the sheer beam spam and surrounding hazards at the same time.

Intelligence and Information Analysis:

- Has met tens of cultures across the multiverse, and has been able to do undercover work within them for nearly a year.

- Like several other characters, Roxas has the innate ability to see the remaining health of the opponent, and even has the sense to tell where the opponent is even if he's not directly seeing it.

Instinctive Reaction:

- Can seemingly instinctively block and dodge attacks.

- Per the above showcases, Roxas has shown the capability to react to attacks from behind with no prior in-universe warning and plenty of teleport-based or "instant" attacks as well, let alone while also having to worry about several waves of energy.

----

Now, I'm going to debunk some of the arguments used for Sion, as frankly some are either seemingly unquantificable out of no visuals being shown or aren't really significant skill feats or the like to begin with.

See, this post is far better than anything you have posted before. Those are now actual skill feats. That said

Him getting weaker by the day and having nightmares and shit does not compare to Sion fighting looking like this im sorry:

This how Sion looked before she went on a solo crusade against an entire army of AG's and Hyperion. That is after she was on wheelchair support, missing organs and suffering from illness. Not only that, I know for a fact that Sion is keeping herself together through skill because it is stated as such:

Meh, with all the given context Sion reflecting back half of a shockwave is just hax, or otherwise just a (minor for skill measuring IMO) feat unrelated to her health. The health arguments as a whole isn't even usable for skill measuring purposes as that's literally just a stamina/will feat, as much as type 2 immortality isn't skill.

My son in christ, how could you misconstruct/misunderstand that argument so badly. Speed of LEARNING. Which Sion has beat by the fact that she copies and perfects entire combat styles with a signle VIEWING.

This is the only thing that's valid here, but even so it's hard to compare to viably dual wielding.

It is a worse skill feat because Skill is clearly not the deciding factor in that fight. If it was Xemnas vs Sora but he is restricted to his sword then you would have a better case of a feat, but that is blatantly not true. The difference in physical power is irrelevant when it makes skill logically obselet. You cant bridge a thousands of difference in AP, for example, with skill, you would need hax that allowed you to win. Not only that, you cant give me a concrete difference in the first place. I can. Its in her prime Sion < Hyperion pre Repair > Hyperion Repair >>> Sion in her final duel >>> Sion after getting 80% of her physical stats passivly eroded. And this is not including Hyperions massive powerups that it got TWICE in a single battle. Not only are the odds important, HOW the odds were dealt with is too.

Uh... no, KHII Sora doesn't even has hax to begin with, although I can agree on leaving arguments regarding hearts at a side as they're irrelevant for skill purposes here. I'm also not a fan of scaling skill as it doesn't work like AP and it can easily lead to inflated results, especially when no visuals are shown of the battles regarding Sion so far to evaluate.

You gave me multiple Scaling chains and a couple of feats for Xemnas skill. But okay. Scaling chain time as clearly they are so important to you.

Right at the beginning of KR scalings are combat prodigees across the universe. The best of the best of each planets across nummerous planets are handpicked to become Knight Trainees. Knight Trainees are trained for years in combat, tactics and survival. They are Sword fighters in a age of space fleet battles. A regular Knight can keep up with groups of AG's, aliens that can fly, shoot lasers and swarm their target relendlessly. Once they proved themself on planetary wars, they become Master Knights. Master Knights are tasked with running hitsquads against Type Zeroes. Type Zeroes special combat AG's capable of completly annihalating war fleets on their own. The weakest we have seen was a Grade D to C. That thing killed off thousands of soldiers, destroyed multiple warships, fought against dozens of Knights and a Master Knight and killed 5 Knights before it was subdued. Each grade of Type Zero requires varying amounts of Master Knights in order to beat. A S grade took on Humanities ENTIRE Space fleet and multiple Cold Heroes on and required Dry, the current Top Sword to learn actual precognition in order to beat. Cold Heroes are Knights that are walking gods. Only the most skilled and strongest Knights can become one. Then there is the Top Sword, the currently greatest Knight living. Sion was a Cold Hero. She was a Top Sword. She was the first Sword Saint. She was the first to take on a Grade S with no support whatsoever and slay it.

The title Sword Saint makes it clear that in terms of Sword skills, there was only 1 compareable to her. This would put her above Garou Rata, whose kinetic vision allows him to spot irregularities in space and counter them accordingly. Who took on both Sophie Vista and Ralph Paulo, who are Cold Heroes and the founding fathers of the Knight Orders Sword fighting skills, and won. Who can analyze entire Sword Styles, point out their weaknesses and improve them on the spot. Above Pray Mayer, who as a Knight Trainee was so immensly above in skill compared to even Master Knights, that no one even dared to step in to the ring with her. Who in 6 months of training went from 0 combat skills to trashing 13 master martial artists and her adoptive mother, who was remarked to have excellent combat prowess despite regular human strength. Whose Analytical Prediction where so good that the universe fastest Knight could not tag her, stated to be on the level of genuine prophecies. Above Anne Mayer, who was the only Knight capable of keeping up with Pray. Whose analytical prediction allowed her to fight barehanded against dozens of armed Knights, all stronger and faster than her. Against multiple Master Knights that speedblitzed her. Who has complete control over her body allowing her to directly control her nervous systsem, muscles, blood and energy flow.

As implied at the end of my sort of skill list for Roxas, Roxas is regarded as a gifted Keyblade wielder since hundreds of years ago across the multiverse, already putting him above the likes of ancient Keyblade Masters that could see the future in which he appears.

I'll reiterate that I'm not a fan myself of scaling chains for skill, especially not without visuals to back them up, as much as a ton of scaling doesn't give a proper "skill ceiling" to evaluate in itself.

Another actual skill feat. Sions better though, as she went from being a literal child to casually wrecking a veteran knight after 4 weeks of play training (Like how a older sibling pretends to play soccer with their toddler sibling)

Technically Roxas isn't even two years old, and he already managed to do far more than Sion presumably did in her first two years.

I mean... Go ahead? You want her spot.
Scaling from characters with bareley any actual skill feats, on top of himself having barely any skill feats...

I hope the stuff at the start addresses this better.

Good senses feats, not superior to Clints though

I'm not sure how Clint's is better? As far I can tell they're comparable if anything here.

Knights who can grasp Victory literally do the same on top of evolving in skill through battles.

I guess this is valid, but as said before I'm not how comparable this'd be skill wise to dual wielding.

Yes yes, The Mayer Style being a martial arts designed to give normal humans the power to weaponize their body, made out of Earths ancient and legendary martial arts, all giving birth to the Mayer Style. And the Pray style that completley revamps and evolves the Mayer Style into a Style so efficient it was considered as main martial arts for the Knight Order despite its incredible difficulty. We are not reading each others posts arent we?

I'd rather avoid arguments that rely too much on this kind of lore as they're rather irrelevant to actually displayed feats, as much as any random timeframe doesn't correlate too well to a skill level.

Overall, Sion has some notable statements and the like, but a lack of scans on this regard in terms of how they are in practice, combined with relying a lot on big words from lore and timeframes makes me not be too much of a fan to Sion's placement, so I'm going to re-nominate Roxas.

 

[First_Witch]

Going back on my word just this once.

Meh, with all the given context Sion reflecting back half of a shockwave is just hax, or otherwise just a (minor for skill measuring IMO) feat unrelated to her health. The health arguments as a whole isn't even usable for skill measuring purposes as that's literally just a stamina/will feat, as much as type 2 immortality isn't skill.

My guy, this is Akido taking literally. Redirecting forces behind an attack is staple in skill based fiction. How is this even questioned.

This is the only thing that's valid here, but even so it's hard to compare to viably dual wielding.

Bold claim. I dont know why you want to compare Technique mimicry to martial arts but go off?

Uh... no, KHII Sora doesn't even has hax to begin with, although I can agree on leaving arguments regarding hearts at a side as they're irrelevant for skill purposes here. I'm also not a fan of scaling skill as it doesn't work like AP and it can easily lead to inflated results, especially when no visuals are shown of the battles regarding Sion so far to evaluate.

Neither am I, but if every argument previous to this ones have been nothing but skill scaling chains what am I supposed to do?

As implied at the end of my sort of skill list for Roxas, Roxas is regarded as a gifted Keyblade wielder since hundreds of years ago across the multiverse, already putting him above the likes of ancient Keyblade Masters that could see the future in which he appears.

WHY ARE WE BACK HERE AGAIN. Sion is the greatest Sword master in the universe through roughly 500 years of space human history.

Technically Roxas isn't even two years old, and he already managed to do far more than Sion presumably did in her first two years.

I guess? But considering that Sion gained all of her abilities before her fight with Hyperion in that 2 year period, dont think the gap is particulary wide?

I hope the stuff at the start addresses this better.

It is more productive, thats for sure (No offense King)

I'm not sure how Clint's is better? As far I can tell they're comparable if anything here.

READING. Not superior, dosnt mean I said Clints is better.

I guess this is valid, but as said before I'm not how comparable this'd be skill wise to dual wielding.

Your fixation on dual wielding is staggering, cant explain why youre trying to compare it to a completly unrelated category again. The Phenomenon of Victory is Information Analysis and Accelerated Development.

I'd rather avoid arguments that rely too much on this kind of lore as they're rather irrelevant to actually displayed feats, as much as any random timeframe doesn't correlate too well to a skill level.

I kinda dont appreciate how you keep linking those arguments to me like that. I didnt start arguing those aspects. I have replied in kind because the discussion kept shifting towards them. Again, what am I supposed to do.

Overall, Sion has some notable statements and the like, but a lack of scans on this regard in terms of how they are in practice, combined with relying a lot on big words from lore and timeframes makes me not be too much of a fan to Sion's placement, so I'm going to re-nominate Roxas.

Look, once i start reworking Sions profile, you will get all the scans in the world. Dont get me wrong, its not wrong of you to ask for scans. But I rather not gobble up tons of scans when I would do the same down the line.

Libera me from hell.

 

[First_Witch]

And to reiterate on Sions fighting as a corpse feat (Because Im old and senile and plain forgot to adress it above). It is a skill feat because it is performed through Body Control. Which is skill, because Body control is literally the building block, a aspect incorporated into many kinds of skill based fiction. Its pretty damn common.

 

[Lemongifted101]

Then who 3rd in misc one

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It might be worth mentioning that dual wielding has several difficulties that render it rather impractical in real life, so actually being able to make it work would be pretty noteworthy. I don't have anything else to add though.

 

[Bobsican]

Going back on my word just this once.


My guy, this is Akido taking literally. Redirecting forces behind an attack is staple in skill based fiction. How is this even questioned.

It depends on how it's done, it can range from merely being an AP/Durability/hax feat to something that'd lean more into skill, and the latter is quite an high claim if no further explanation is given.

Bold claim. I dont know why you want to compare Technique mimicry to martial arts but go off?

Not precisely, I just want to point out that one may be better than the other skill-wise, but at the same time they're rather incompatible to compare, but given that neither have a proper equivalent to the other (Roxas and Sion), that'd be up to everyone else to evaluate or something.

Neither am I, but if every argument previous to this ones have been nothing but skill scaling chains what am I supposed to do?

Eh, fair, but yeah.

WHY ARE WE BACK HERE AGAIN. Sion is the greatest Sword master in the universe through roughly 500 years of space human history.

See the above, lol.

I guess? But considering that Sion gained all of her abilities before her fight with Hyperion in that 2 year period, dont think the gap is particulary wide?

Eh... timeframes aren't really a good measurement stick to begin with as said before, as much as any amount of skill "raising" is pretty variable in itself regardless of verse.

It is more productive, thats for sure (No offense King)

Noted

READING. Not superior, dosnt mean I said Clints is better.

Okay, I suppose

Your fixation on dual wielding is staggering, cant explain why youre trying to compare it to a completly unrelated category again. The Phenomenon of Victory is Information Analysis and Accelerated Development.

See what I've said in my second response in this post, but yeah basically.

I kinda dont appreciate how you keep linking those arguments to me like that. I didnt start arguing those aspects. I have replied in kind because the discussion kept shifting towards them. Again, what am I supposed to do.

Oh, that's understandable, I just had to pick from where the discussion left-off to nominate and all as far I could tell.

Look, once i start reworking Sions profile, you will get all the scans in the world. Dont get me wrong, its not wrong of you to ask for scans. But I rather not gobble up tons of scans when I would do the same down the line.

Wouldn't it have been best to nominate Sion later on then? This is like nominating a character to the top 5 strongests of a given tier but the page is pending relevant updates for that since long ago.

Libera me from hell.

And to reiterate on Sions fighting as a corpse feat (Because Im old and senile and plain forgot to adress it above). It is a skill feat because it is performed through Body Control. Which is skill, because Body control is literally the building block, a aspect incorporated into many kinds of skill based fiction. Its pretty damn common.

Uh... as far I can tell, Body Control here refers to ensuring consistent physical moves from the user and biomechanical displays for those purposes. What we have here just straight up goes into a will/stamina feat that borders into type 2 immortality, with no proper relation to combat skills and all. I guess others can evaluate on the matter as this is merely what I think over it and all.

 

[First_Witch]

It depends on how it's done, it can range from merely being an AP/Durability/hax feat to something that'd lean more into skill, and the latter is quite an high claim if no further explanation is given.

Leny; Tries to smash up Sion through a strike. Also Leny; Half of THAT came back at her. ALSO LENY; She isnt the greatest Swordman for nothing. Like how blatant do you want it?

Not precisely, I just want to point out that one may be better than the other skill-wise, but at the same time they're rather incompatible to compare, but given that neither have a proper equivalent to the other (Roxas and Sion), that'd be up to everyone else to evaluate or something.

Bob. You compare them not in general but in categorys. If you want to compare Roxas Swordmanship you compare it with Sions. If I compare Sion's Information Analysis, I do that against Roxas'. Its not that deep.

Eh... timeframes aren't really a good measurement stick to begin with as said before, as much as any amount of skill "raising" is pretty variable in itself regardless of verse.

You brought timeframes up first...? Am I really getting senile.

Wouldn't it have been best to nominate Sion later on then? This is like nominating a character to the top 5 strongests of a given tier but the page is pending relevant updates for that since long ago.

Sion has been on the list since its inception. And its a list for fun, so I never bothered, nor was anyone else for that matter.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

I'm bored, I'm going to argue for Roxas again as I'm noticing most of the arguments for him were terrible and could be substantiated far more, plus some of Sion's stuff isn't even skill for the purposes in here.

This is, undoubtedly, a much better argument than I pulled off, I can't even kid myself. You did much better with finding proper skill feats that weren't part of a scaling chain (Even though I still think that how one's skill shakes up to other's is highly relevant (Though, once again, clearly not the most important thing, as this argument show's)). Excellent job, Bob.

It is more productive, thats for sure (No offense King)

None taken. I'm probably better for AP and other kinds of scaling arguments, anyway. I did a poor job of gathering concrete and clear skill feats and the only thing I did somewhat well was portray a skill scaling chain (Which evidently, is not highly valued in this thread), it's clear that Bob has better feat gathering skills as well as better argumentative skills. That is something to commemorate, even if only a little.

 

[Bobsican]

Leny; Tries to smash up Sion through a strike. Also Leny; Half of THAT came back at her. ALSO LENY; She isnt the greatest Swordman for nothing. Like how blatant do you want it?

Eh, fair, but was there a notable AP gap and/or area of effect here? Otherwise it seems quite less impressive as much as I'm not pointing out stuff like Roxas keeping up with Xigbar, who can warp space to limit the movement of the opponent while also using portals to spam bullets on several directions

Bob. You compare them not in general but in categorys. If you want to compare Roxas Swordmanship you compare it with Sions. If I compare Sion's Information Analysis, I do that against Roxas'. Its not that deep.

Eh, fine, I suppose.

You brought timeframes up first...? Am I really getting senile.

That was just a part of a previous argument chain you had with King I simply had to address for the sake of keeping a proper argument, I'm not particularly a fan of them even if a (lame) argument can be made by either side.

Sion has been on the list since its inception. And its a list for fun, so I never bothered, nor was anyone else for that matter.

Eh, then I'll probably push for higher spots later if this gets a pass, I already thought the one in the 4th spot had less skill than Sion as is.

 

[First_Witch]

Eh, fair, but was there a notable AP gap and/or area of effect here? Otherwise it seems quite less impressive as much as I'm not pointing out stuff like Roxas keeping up with Xigbar, who can warp space to limit the movement of the opponent while also using portals to spam bullets on several directions

Leny is quite a ton stronger than Sion actually.

That was just a part of a previous argument chain you had with King I simply had to address for the sake of keeping a proper argument, I'm not particularly a fan of them even if a (lame) argument can be made by either side.

If you agree that this is not a good argument, I agree that this is not a good argument, then why are we arguing over it.

Eh, then I'll probably push for higher spots later if this gets a pass, I already thought the one in the 4th spot had less skill than Sion as is.

You said that, not me capiche everyone?

 

[azontr]

Poor choice of words, Bob.