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Arent you a treat today. I may even reconsider the divorce if you continueDon't worry, I'll fix the verse for you when I start reading Knight Run, witchy.
People shall put some respect on Sions nameDamn Witch is on the war path today.
I mean I can do that, the problem is that the scans either just repeat what i already wrote (Or to be more correct, I repeat what the series gives me word for word) or are just so big that I might as well link the entire chapter.Although I should say the same for Sion, while a ton of lore and details make some feats particularly impressi
ve, I think they'd become more valuable with visuals to display how they are in practice, an image says more than 1000 words after all.
Sion has him beat in Skill scaling chains as well to be honest. Literal fodders in Knight Run are combat prodigees across countless planets and Sion is literal magnitudes above them. Sion scales above so many characters in skill specificly that it is not even funnyI will admit, most of my argument does rely heavily on a skill scaling chain, in comparison to Sion showing some more outright feats. Unfortunately, we don't get nearly as many fights with Roxas in them as we do Sora, but seeing as Roxas has shown the ability to disarm and outskill Sora, and Sora has some previously stated feats in terms of Skill, that should more than likely be somewhat sufficient as evidence. Though, after some thought and digging, some more feats:
Sion, in a near death state, has walzed through thousands of AG's in a single battle as well. While AG's dont possess innate one shot potential as Heartless, AG's are quite easily far more skilled compared to Hearthless. AG's have shown battle tactics, skill in combat and even skill growth throughout their life. That he was fighting them for years is not a skill argument and is not more impressive than Sion being send nonstop to multiple planetary wars since childhood.- To understand the first feat, you need to understand the Heartless: Beings who populate the worlds, they are governed by instinct. Being capable of stealing soul's with ease, one wrong move against even just one of them for the average person, and you're dead. Heartless, by default, would in character immediately go for any kill they can see, as their only goal is to gather more soul's (Or Hearts in KH terminology). Roxas spent a full year fighting these hell spawn daily, encountering many different kinds (Flying Heartless, Parasitic Heartless, Invisible Heartless, Possessive Heartless, a Heartless Shaped like a War Machine that was going to ram into a castle, etc. ...) And Roxas would have had to adapt to each of these Heartless's different gimmicks.
- Roxas in Day's was shown to be proficient with a number of different Spells, learning how to use each of them effectively. Though not as many as Sora, it's still impressive, as it only took him a few day's to learn basic magic, whereas Donald, who is supposed to be a trained court wizard in KH1, begins with just basic Magic (Note: This could very well just be a massive Gameplan distinction, in which case I can definitely concede that Donald part. Regardless, he learned his magic fairly quickly.)
Sion, in a fight against an armee of AG's and Hyperion kicked her sword in such a way that it beheaded a AG diving onto her, decimate the rest of the army with energy blades and have her Sword fall back into her hand for a counterstrike in the middle of Hyperion teleporting at her.- Roxas is shown manipulating Multiple Light Shields/Ray's of Light around the battlefield to attack Sora while also still using his Twin Keyblade's towards the end of their fight, showing a good capacity for multi-tasking in the middle of Combat.
- Here's Roxas fighting Neoshadow's in Cutscene
From between 0:48 to about 1:20, we see Roxas expertly taking on a Horde of these Mindless, Instinctual Heartless. Manuvering through them with relative ease, he holds a airtight defense, and is shown being able to perform moves that cleave through several of these heartless, with just one movement (Most Notably, how he throw's the Keyblade in such a way that it would hit 3 or so Heartless on it's way back).
See inquiry at the beginning of the post- And here's his fight against Sora in Cutscene
From about 0:35 onward. We see Sora and Roxas clash on pretty equal ground through the first part of the fight. Of particular note, at 1:42, Roxas forces Sora to dodge his attacks numerous times, pushing Sora on the defensive and making him block him, allowing Roxas to disarm him. After this, the actual fighting is essentially over, as the rest is Sora surprising Roxas, and then a bunch of dialogue. Sora, as stated earlier, is already spoken for in this thread.
I guess Roxas has Instinctive Reactions over Sion. The Xenmas fights looks cool, but I dont see how this is more impressive than Sion fighting against Hyperion with nothing but a Sword when Hyperion had: A oneshotting Spear, passive stats reduction making Sion fight with only 20% of her physical strenght ON top of being a walking corpse, near Danmaku amount of oneshotting spears, laser drones, an army of AGs, 2 Revives each with a powerboosts, teleportation through hyperspeed movement, being a skilled spear fighter that fought against SionGeneral Grievous style and a aura that slowly kills and decomposes you? All happening in a single, no break fight?- And here, a video pertaining to reaction commands.
While the first 4 are Roxas's RC's, and are somewhat relevant, after that the only important stuff is from 2:45 forward. The RC's in question are:
Finish (Fail) (2:45)
Reversal (4:11)
Defend (4:55)
In the first one, we see Xemnas Punishing Sora. In the Second, we see Xemnas expertly manipulating Thorny-Like Nothingness attacks in correlation with his own Physical attacks, of which we see he is both skilled enough to use several kicks as well as his Laser Blades. Sora, of course, Dodges, but that just serves as a further testament to the Skill Chain and Roxas's place on it. In the final one, we see that Xemnas can find a weakness in Sora's defense and heavily punish him swiftly for it, forcing Riku to step in and help Sora, and even with that, at most they get a Neutral Situation after that, and at worst Xemnas still hurts the both of them.
A even stronger and likely more skilled Xemnas than this is the one previously mentioned as being fought by Roxas, who not once during their fight let's Xemnas get such a upper hand.
- And here, I have a list of videos of someone else actually breaking down Roxas's Combat:
Here for KH2 Playable Roxas (The combat starts at 1:16)
Here for KH3 Roxas
And last but not least, Here for 358/2 Day's Roxas (Starts around 2:00) (Sorry, this one in particular is rather long cause Roxas's combo always changes with different Keyblades!)
As I hope one can see, more so when Roxas is Dual Wielding, Roxas show's rather good technique and skill with wielding two Keyblades, while in verse there are many who have difficulty using just one. Roxas is also very versatile, able to change his combat Subtly to play by the Keyblade he's using's best strength's.
Tbh I still think that, even though they are harder to explain, his feats of fighting certain other character's are still better for his Skill than a handful of these feats, but it would be rather tedious to list every character's skill in detail... Regardless, here ya go.
I mean, KH nowadays is a mainstream series even outside vs debating, especially with Sora getting in Smash, and still is the strongest Disney series skipping Marvel, please don't ditch hard-effort on managing indexing and controversial stuff like that.I am glad to be one of the first in history to see KH fans contributing something positive in a community for once.
The Hyperion fight is hype, regardless of wether or not you know what goes down in itTFW reading Witch's skill dickeating spoils me on a portion of Knight Run
Id like to see if Capricorn Shura has a possibility of entering a spot for Swordsman (or er maybe martial arts? you see.. his body is the holy sword exalibur)
giving a quick run down.
- All Saints are trained in every martial arts at a very young age including sword techniques like the Tararus Saint for example who doesn't even use a sword but incorporates the iai technique for his "great horn ability." Additionally, there is unconvential and additional pressure points on saints that spells certain death if struck. |||| shura is no exception to this.
- A Saints skill at adapting to an opponent is excellent. They just need to see a technique once and they can counter it the next time.
- Saints can additionally take brutal injuries and still continue to fight (which should already listed on their profiles) and shura is no exception to this either. He lost both his arms and his legs and was still using his body as the holy sword Excalibur to continue fighting.
- A true swordsman can predict up to 30% of oncoming attacks, but Roland could predict with accuracy greater than 90%. Shura countered Roland's analytical prediction with his eyes closed. Roland could analytically predict an infinitude of outcomes/futures.
- even before that he was already doing a great job countering Roland's attacks that had Analytical Prediction involved with them. Some of these attacks were omnidirectional homing attacks and a Danmaku (should be in the link above)
- Despite Saints having mastered many different types of martial arts style. Shura still creates new attacks when fighting Saints from other worlds whom have seen many techniques to counter as they fought in many battles. The Gladiators are an excellent example as they are Saints from another world, and they went from World to World to conquer god knows how many other universes.
Edit: imgur messed up and made some of the scans in the links out of order. fack
Edit 2:
Adding more to Capricorn Shura here.
Capricorn Shura got stuck in a limbo state where he was forced to fight for eternity to save infinite worlds.
無限に存在する「現在」を救う為永久に闘う「修羅」と化したのか?
Translation:
Have you become an ashura who fights eternally in order to save the
infinite worlds/presents(?)
Translated here
無限に存在する多次元宇宙
その世界に広がる水遠の滅びの中で
別の世界の自分すら倒し
未来を変える道を探し続けた先に辿り着く境地
translation:
The infinite multidimensional universes.
In the perdition of the watery distance that spreads over that world.
I have defeated even my own self in another world.
The state that is reached when one continues to search for a way to change the future.
even fought other worldly variants of his own self.
So, he has a literal eternity/infinity of battle experience. Including fighting variations of himself within the multiverse.
Analytical prediction wise. He's near 100%. He out scales someone who has ">90% accuracy."
Said Analytical Predictions involves predicting how the opponent will move
Both Roland and Shura go into it in detail on how they predict each other moves. Shura had to out predict the predicter.
Edit 3:
Shura was completely paralyzed from a brain injury that gave him vertical shock, but he was still able to counter attack despite being paralyzed
A bit of a continuation of the above. This was a counter attack to a technique he never even seen before. A technique never even used on him or anyone else. he had no knowledge on it but he already Analytically predicted it. He then reflected the technique back by applying the same technique the Titan just used.
on top of that, he even counter attacked while in a state of unconsciousness.
Shura also countered, blocked, and deflected an omnidirectional infinite attack. twice.
on top of that all saints possess the 6th sense. This Extra Sense is "instinct" allowing them to know of danger before it hits them. Instinct gets stronger the more experience one accumulates in their life.
Capricorn Shura had to rely on his higher senses that he honed through his many battles in the infinite worlds, and his speed to parry infinite attacks that came from all directions. Literal infinite omnidirectional attacks. He did this with only a finite speed.
Also, regarding his analytical predictions. Shura out-predicted a man who could precog infinite possible futures.
Summary;
- All Saints are trained in every martial arts at a very young age including sword techniques like the Tararus Saint for example who doesn't even use a sword but incorporates the iai technique for his "great horn ability." Additionally, there is unconvential and additional pressure points on saints that spells certain death if struck. |||| shura is no exception to this.
- A Saints skill at adapting to an opponent is excellent. They just need to see a technique once, and they can counter it the next time.
- Saints can additionally take brutal injuries and still continue to fight (which should already listed on their profiles) and shura is no exception to this either. He lost both his arms and his legs and was still using his body as the holy sword Excalibur to continue fighting.
- A true swordsman can predict up to 30% of oncoming attacks, but Roland could predict with accuracy greater than 90%. Shura countered Roland's analytical prediction with his eyes closed. he out predicted the predicter who could predict an infinitude of possibilities.
- even before that he was already doing a great job countering Roland's attacks that had Analytical Prediction involved with them. Some of these attacks were omnidirectional homing attacks and a Danmaku (should be in the link above)
- Despite Saints having mastered many different types of martial arts style. Shura still creates new attacks when fighting Saints from other worlds whom have seen many techniques to counter as they fought in many battles. The Gladiators are an excellent example as they are Saints from another world, and they went from World to World to conquer god knows how many other universes.
- He has infinite battle experience from fighting (NOT FODDERS but high tiers) life and death battles in infinite worlds.honestly its probably uncountably infinite considering the verses cosmology but meh
- he can counter attack despite being paralyzed, or suffering from severe brain injuries, and he can be missing all his limbs except his head and still fight. he could have a freaking hole in chest and still fight on. He could be missing more than half of all the blood in his body and still fight on.
- His 6th sense which has been honed through training, and the many battles he has had in his life, will give him an advantage. It acts sort of like a spider sense. It screams "Danger" and tells him where the danger is, and how strong it is, and the best method to avoid it.
- He can copy techniques, and even counter said copied techniques instantly. He can even copy techniques he has never seen before, never heard of before, and is not a known martial art for mortals, by predicting you could do the technique via Analytical predictions.
- He has also countered, parried, blocked, and deflected an omni-directional infinite attack with just finite speed relying on purely his skill.
I rather wait until Knight Fall is finished until I ship Annes rework, in case it is worth doing a new key, so take all the time you need. Just saying that both the Pray arc and the Sion arc should be experienced as blind as possibleI haven't finished it lol, been hard procrastinating + reading/writing other stuff. So I'll take your advice.
It's stoll old so some stuff that I mistake that could have been valid but wasn't which might still be on it. Busy irl atm.Will check it out.
If anyone takes a swing at Sion again (Please dont), then please not today. I need sleep. Tomorrow?
Since you need sleep, I'll send my response tomorrow, have a good night.If anyone takes a swing at Sion again (Please dont), then please not today. I need sleep. Tomorrow?
Hit me upSince you need sleep, I'll send my response tomorrow, have a good night.
Here, allow me to have our friend do the work for me: Sora's feat's, as stated earlier in the threadSion has him beat in Skill scaling chains as well to be honest. Literal fodders in Knight Run are combat prodigees across countless planets and Sion is literal magnitudes above them. Sion scales above so many characters in skill specificly that it is not even funny
You might want to hit me up with Soras feats as well then, I dont know them
One, it was only across one Year that Roxas fought, and beat down, those heartless. He was fighting hoards of them constantly throughout his time across the vast Multiverse of KH, and Heartless, while Instinctually driven, are shown to work in a pack mentality, choosing to fight alongside each other to fight their prey. In addition, certain Heartless, like the Green Rhapsody, show a higher degree of capacity for teamwork, being able to heal fellow Heartless. There are also several other Heartless that show a higher capacity for intellect in general, such as the Behemoth, who will attempt to shake off things off it's back, where they can easily access it's weak point. I can concede that most sentient beings are capable of being more skilled than Heartless, but saying that taking on multiple of these creatures who are more than willing to just gang bang you is not a skill argument is a bit inaccurate imo. Also keep in mind that throughout day's, Roxas was constantly getting weaker, while the Heartless he fought were only getting stronger and more creative.Sion, in a near death state, has walzed through thousands of AG's in a single battle as well. While AG's dont possess innate one shot potential as Heartless, AG's are quite easily far more skilled compared to Hearthless. AG's have shown battle tactics, skill in combat and even skill growth throughout their life. That he was fighting them for years is not a skill argument and is not more impressive than Sion being send nonstop to multiple planetary wars since childhood.
Yes, it's learning speed. Maybe not as fast as Sion, but still notable for his total Skill. Another thing to consider is that Roxas seems to have adopted several of Sora's move's through both Pure Instinct and seeing some memories of Sora's. Thus is heavily implied more so in KH2, where Roxas was basically reset to being low Level, not too powerful, but he was already learning how to use a basic toy weapon in a similar manner to how Sora used his weapons.I... Dont see the skill feat? Is it learning speed? Combat creativity? Against Sion, who can perfectly copy techniques from other people? One of them being from soneone who trained the technique for decades and got it stolen after showing it to her one single time. Or the same Sion, who can copy a dead show martial art and determine the purpose of every move, stance and transition, making it combat useable again. Even going so far as to completly revamp it and make it her destinct sword style.
Sion, in a fight against an armee of AG's and Hyperion kicked her sword in such a way that it beheaded a AG diving onto her, decimate the rest of the army with energy blades and have her Sword fall back into her hand for a counterstrike in the middle of Hyperion teleporting at her.
This is the same argument as above, see the reply above
I guess Roxas has Instinctive Reactions over Sion. The Xenmas fights looks cool, but I dont see how this is more impressive than Sion fighting against Hyperion with nothing but a Sword when Hyperion had: A oneshotting Spear, passive stats reduction making Sion fight with only 20% of her physical strenght ON top of being a walking corpse, near Danmaku amount of oneshotting spears, laser drones, an army of AGs, 2 Revives each with a powerboosts, teleportation through hyperspeed movement, being a skilled spear fighter that fought against SionGeneral Grievous style and a aura that slowly kills and decomposes you? All happening in a single, no break fight?
And Roxas, in just one Year and spending a few day's trapped in Sora's mind, was still able to disarm and outskill Sora, who was able to defeat the Lingering Will, the Lingering Will having been training for 10 years straight to perfect it's skills after having defeated Terranort (BBS), who was essentially equal in stats to him, who was statistically just a better Master Xehanort, the most skilled Keyblade Master we have seen thus far, who in the future would be able to instantly adapt to the X-Blade and use it to it's full extent the moment he started fighting with it (He was casually changing it's form and summoning massive cannon's to attack Sora and Co. With Danmaku pattern like laser's), was able to casually catch all of the attacks of a Keyblade Wielder who had trained in a place where "Time doesn't matter", who would have had all the ample time needed to have trained to handle Xehanort's Base at minimum, but he still stopped her with ease. Using the questionably canon No Heart, which is just a data simulation of Master Xehanort using his first Keyblade Armor, he's shown to assault his opponents with all kinds of weapons, attack from close and long range at speeds Terra could never achieve, apply several kinds of status effects that blind or partially blind the opponent, and can even change how time works in a enclosed space, yet Terra STILL beat him in the Mirage Arena. And this isn't to even mention how Xehanort may have possibly read the Book of Prophecies, meaning he KNEW exactly what actions his opponents would take (Though this part is the most dubious and questionable I will admit).Sions Sword techniques are so refined that they are rendered practicly invisible through technique, a effect not achieveable by speed. Sion earned the title Sword Saint, awarded to the greatest Swordsman in the entire universe and was one of only 2 to have ever wielded that title in humanitys history. She can reflect the physical force behind attacks through martial arts, can predict enemies with more than blitz worthy speed amps (See Hyperion), has grown immensly in skill through a single battle (Went from barely stalemating Hyperion with a far healthier body to killing it 3 times through 2 revives and powerups back to back without a single break), she can copy entire martial arts with a single viewing, outskilled her pupil who trained for decades while Sion was frozen casually and effortlessly, a character who can pinpoint the location of his enemy he knows nothing about with nothing but his senses through a multistory building full with other humans, who can even tell their gender by how they walk, who can redirect his sword strikes midstrike wherever he wants, who can cut the arm off opponents multiple stories away with his senses. Sion has learned the Mayer and Pray Style, the Mayer Style being a legendary hand to hand martial arts made up of all of humanities ancient and modern fighting styles and the Pray Style being a even more effective evolution of the Mayer Style. Had become Top Sword, a title awarded to the greatest living Knight just with 2 years of Knightage service, making her the second fastest Top Sword to have ever lived. Whooped a experienced Knight after 4 weeks of pretend training while she was a child. Knocked a Zail nobleman, genetically enhanced superhumans, who could nuke the entire battlefield with a single attack by hitting him in vital spots as child
Here, allow me to have our friend do the work for me: Sora's feat's, as stated earlier in the thread
AG's have a proper military structure, weapon mastery AND swarm behavior themself. It is AG Doctrine to swarm Knights with grunt units until they succumb to the sheer wave behavior. Sion specificly had to cut herself free from complete surrounding multiple times. And when I speak about complete surrounding I mean COMPLETE surrounding.One, it was only across one Year that Roxas fought, and beat down, those heartless. He was fighting hoards of them constantly throughout his time across the vast Multiverse of KH, and Heartless, while Instinctually driven, are shown to work in a pack mentality, choosing to fight alongside each other to fight their prey. In addition, certain Heartless, like the Green Rhapsody, show a higher degree of capacity for teamwork, being able to heal fellow Heartless. There are also several other Heartless that show a higher capacity for intellect in general, such as the Behemoth, who will attempt to shake off things off it's back, where they can easily access it's weak point. I can concede that most sentient beings are capable of being more skilled than Heartless, but saying that taking on multiple of these creatures who are more than willing to just gang bang you is not a skill argument is a bit inaccurate imo. Also keep in mind that throughout day's, Roxas was constantly getting weaker, while the Heartless he fought were only getting stronger and more creative.
Yes, it's learning speed. Maybe not as fast as Sion, but still notable for his total Skill. Another thing to consider is that Roxas seems to have adopted several of Sora's move's through both Pure Instinct and seeing some memories of Sora's. Thus is heavily implied more so in KH2, where Roxas was basically reset to being low Level, not too powerful, but he was already learning how to use a basic toy weapon in a similar manner to how Sora used his weapons.
Then allow me to clarify a little:
Xemnas, in the first fight, is admittedly lackluster.
However, after that, in his white and black coat, he has absorbed a Artificial Kingdom Hearts. Being claimed to be a threat to all the worlds, he was seeking to remake the Multiverse in his (And, technically Xehanort's) image. A single Heart alone in KH is stated to be incalculable, and the derivative of most strength/power in the verse, and now Xemnas had at least over 50,000 (This, is probably even a massive underestimation), and was using Kingdom Heart's full power against Sora and Riku. Essentially, they were fighting god, and still managed to beat him through teamwork. Xemnas during the fight was also throwing Fully Dense Buildings, using a Dragon to shoot Laser's, and in the final phase, he was summoning Existence Erasing Orb's and Laser's, and was also consistently using Mirages of himself to either confuse the opponent's or multitask. Xemnas from the fight with Roxas should retain a portion of these abilities, and at the very least we know that in all fights, it's in character for him to spam Existence Erasing Laser's and Orb's consistently.
And Roxas, in just one Year and spending a few day's trapped in Sora's mind, was still able to disarm and outskill Sora, who was able to defeat the Lingering Will, the Lingering Will having been training for 10 years straight to perfect it's skills after having defeated Terranort (BBS), who was essentially equal in stats to him, who was statistically just a better Master Xehanort, the most skilled Keyblade Master we have seen thus far, who in the future would be able to instantly adapt to the X-Blade and use it to it's full extent the moment he started fighting with it (He was casually changing it's form and summoning massive cannon's to attack Sora and Co. With Danmaku pattern like laser's), was able to casually catch all of the attacks of a Keyblade Wielder who had trained in a place where "Time doesn't matter", who would have had all the ample time needed to have trained to handle Xehanort's Base at minimum, but he still stopped her with ease. Using the questionably canon No Heart, which is just a data simulation of Master Xehanort using his first Keyblade Armor, he's shown to assault his opponents with all kinds of weapons, attack from close and long range at speeds Terra could never achieve, apply several kinds of status effects that blind or partially blind the opponent, and can even change how time works in a enclosed space, yet Terra STILL beat him in the Mirage Arena. And this isn't to even mention how Xehanort may have possibly read the Book of Prophecies, meaning he KNEW exactly what actions his opponents would take (Though this part is the most dubious and questionable I will admit).