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Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!

Though, if we are to be completely fair here, comparing Boxing and Wrestling as Combat Sports seems a bit weird. Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages, superior in some aspects, inferior in others, and in the end it really just depends on who utilizes these techniques in order to bring out their full-potential, as in the end, putting an untrained Boxer and an untrained Wrestler in the same room wouldn't really end with either winning inherently, both are untrained, they dunno what tf they doing.

So we should preferably stick to comparing how WWE Wrestlers stack up to actual trained individuals.
 
azontr said:
Though, if we are to be completely fair here, comparing Boxing and Wrestling as Combat Sports seems a bit weird. Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages, superior in some aspects, inferior in others, and in the end it really just depends on who utilizes these techniques in order to bring out their full-potential, as in the end, putting an untrained Boxer and an untrained Wrestler in the same room wouldn't really end with either winning inherently, both are untrained, they dunno what tf they doing.

So we should preferably stick to comparing how WWE Wrestlers stack up to actual trained individuals.
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As Gin already mentioned, Khabib slams in terms of skill....
 
Phoenks said:
As Gin already mentioned, Khabib slams in terms of skill....
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I do not even know who that is. I'm not here to argue that. I'm here to make sure we stay on a track that gets us to a conclusion as fast as possible, since this has long since gone away from just Theory.
 
Phoenks said:
I'm not reading some bullshit article that was probably written by someone who knows jack shit about martial arts.

Use your brain and compare the two. That isn't a source. Do you know how grapples and take-downs work? Do you know what a boxer's defense is in combat?
Click to expand...
Don't you love it when people just assume an article is "bullshit" or "illegitimate" like a smart ass without even looking into it?

This is bordering on straight ignorance. I hate it when people just throw the words "bullshit" or "illegitimate" without even looking into it. Of course, not everything on the internet is reliable, but to be this ignorant about this is just ridiculous.

LordGinSama said:
My guy are you really using Google as a legitimate form of evidence? No. First of all it would depend on the individuals, and that site fails to mention how nimble boxers are.


A grappler would be able to beat a boxer if they got their hands on the boxers, yes but that's only IF they can grab a hold of them and take them down to the ground. Issue with that is that Boxers can fantastic feet movement and incredible counters. A takedown would be a good idea to perform against a guy given that you leave your head exposed to the boxer, which would be a major mistake.


Most takedowns require you to go down for the waist, where your head would be in the perfect place for a striker to well, strike. A simple strike to the chin or better yet, to the exposed temple would be much to easy for a trained boxer to pick apart.
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...It literally states that in the article that a wrestler has to accept the fact that he might get decked by the boxer if he tries going for a takedown.

Of course, since this is Mike ******* Tyson we're talking about, roughly 90% of WWE wrestlers would've likely got their shit caved in.

But applying all of their fictional skill feats, that would be a different story.

I mean, there's literally a wrestler who uses mathematical formulas in his head to out wrestle and defeat his opponents. How is Mike beating that?
 
azontr said:
Though, if we are to be completely fair here, comparing Boxing and Wrestling as Combat Sports seems a bit weird. Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages, superior in some aspects, inferior in others, and in the end it really just depends on who utilizes these techniques in order to bring out their full-potential, as in the end, putting an untrained Boxer and an untrained Wrestler in the same room wouldn't really end with either winning inherently, both are untrained, they dunno what tf they doing.

So we should preferably stick to comparing how WWE Wrestlers stack up to actual trained individuals.
Click to expand...
Basically what az said.

Kurt Angle is legit the greatest shoot wrestler ever. He's had that title for over a decade I think.

If we were to run Prime Kurt Angle vs Prime Mike Tyson 100 times, it'd be a very close bout.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Don't you love it when people just assume an article is "bullshit" or "illegitimate" like a smart ass without even looking into it?

This is bordering on straight ignorance. I hate it when people just throw the words "bullshit" or "illegitimate" without even looking into it. Of course, not everything on the internet is reliable, but to be this ignorant about this is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious. Are you actually defending the fact that you just posted some random article from a google search as evidence for your argument? One that literally has no weight in this conversation and can easily be disproven by just knowing the concepts of the martial arts in question.

Random, please drop this. You can't base your evidence on a article written by a nobody.
 
azontr said:
I do not even know who that is. I'm not here to argue that. I'm here to make sure we stay on a track that gets us to a conclusion as fast as possible, since this has long since gone away from just Theory.
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Just saying that if your fictional wrestlers can't even beat real-world wrestlers WITH their fictional feats, they probably shouldn't be on the list.
 
Phoenks said:
You can't be serious. Are you actually defending the fact that you just posted some random article from a google search as evidence for your argument? One that literally has no weight in this conversation and can easily be disproven by just knowing the concepts of the martial arts in question.

Random, please drop this. You can't base your evidence on a article written by a nobody.
Click to expand...
Anyways, that's not my main point.

Denying the article like a smart ass was uncalled for. It was ignorant. Maybe just look into it before you start denying shit and making smart ass comments.
 
LordGinSama said:
Yeah then Gaolang should outdo Theory by like leaps and bounds.


Who wants to make the thread? I mean Theory's funeral
Click to expand...
You do it lel.

I'm most likely going to go to sleep in a few. Alert me of the outcome should the thread be made.
 
azontr said:
You do it lel.

I'm most likely going to go to sleep in a few. Alert me of the outcome should the thread be made.
Click to expand...
Actually was planning on doing the same 💀.


But anyone with a brain inside their skull should be able to tell that Gao is >>> Theory in terms of combat skill.
 
Fun fact, Muhammad Ali did actually fight against a Professional Wrestler during his lifetime. Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki (Famous Japenese Wrestler) was a pretty big televised match.

The fight turned into a clusterfuck for multiple reasons, but I just thought it was interesting to note.
 
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Firephoenixearl said:
Skips the process of acceleration and somehow loses no energy to friction with the air and therefore makes the attack completely silent.
Click to expand...
Ah, so supernatural abilities. That isn't just a sword technique, it's basically magic. Not something I'd consider skill.
 
Eh, @azontr you can remove Theory from the list.

I only used him because I was too lazy to make another skill essay, and I was just trying to fill in something there for the time being.

There are much more skilled wrestlers in the Professional Wrestling verse (in fact, I have one in mind that can replace Theory...).
 
I'd just say "Kengan characters." for now since Omega's scaling for skill is kinda, uhh well nobody can tell who's the better between Ohma, Gensai or Kanoh atm, could also go to Shen but that remains unknown.
 
I would also like to say that a legit boxer went up against a WWE wrestler at Wrestlemania and had to resort to underhanded tactics to win, though it's probably doesn't say much considering the massive difference in size...
 
Kachon123 said:
Garou
Click to expand...
We need to make a solid list of skill feats for him.

Though, for now, just know his analytical prediction is far superior to Bang's, who is far superior to Bomb's, who is far superior to Atomic Samurai's, who is far superior to Iaian who can analytically predict 100,000 incredibly precise attacks with his eyes closed.

But yeah gonna need to make a good skill post for him at some point. After that, we won't have to worry about people say their character skill stomps Garou...

Unless they're from a chinaman verse, of course.
 
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LordGinSama said:
I am, the one who's failing to grasp the context here is you.

That's nice, what I'm saying is how does staged fights full of well, poorly executed moves (something any MMA fighter or anyone with real martial arts experience professionally would point out.).


Give me a few minutes and I'll go more into depth about it. Perhaps I'm not explaining it correctly, at least to the point where you'd understand. 🗿
Click to expand...
Motherf-

Do you even know what Kayfabe is?
 
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Phoenks said:
WWE fighters do a lot of cool looking techniques but in terms of efficiency and skill they're not the best. Any real fighter with the same size would stomp them in a real fight.
Click to expand...
Not true. The best of WWE are literally Martial Arts Champions, they’re not getting stomped by “any real fighter” whatever real is meant to insinuate
LordGinSama said:
We're on the subject of skill, real martial artist shit talk the moves used in WWE all the time.
Click to expand...
Even if that’s true it ignores that in Kayfabe they’re very real dangerous and efficient martial arts moves.

It’s all well and good to poke fun at WWE/Pro Wrestling as humans outside of its fictional bubble, but we consider it equal to regular martial arts for the sake of the wiki (as does a lot of other profiles for other verses where similar principles exist), and wrestler’s accomplishments in it are equivalent to IRL Martial Arts Championships. If you wanted to discard the ability of the verse because it’s all scripted, then you’d be vying for profiles for the ACTORS of the superstars, which wouldn’t be allowed. WWE’s skill as a verse goes hand-in-hand with its existence and allowance as a verse because if you run a “scripted” narrative against it you remove any layer of fiction from the thing.
 
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Austin at the first spot for Modern Martial arts.
Click to expand...

Oh boy, here comes Yu (The Boxer) to take that spot away.

So let's start with the simple shiz. Even before he even knew how to box, Yu managed to effortlessly beat Ryu while not getting hit a single time. Said Ryu has fought against a professional super middleweight boxer, and has been stated to have been able to beat him if it wasn't in a boxing ring.

Said Ryu has also been able to beat Siha Lee, with the dude being able to know your attack patterns, rhythms, timings, habits and blood flow by simply touching your hand, or even without doing that. He knows their blood flow and heartbeat, and knows when they will attack and where. With it, he stalls out the first round against his opponents, begins to know literally everything about them, and then proceeds to go all out against his opponents in the second round without getting hit once. He has been stated to be a genius countless times, being the best boxer in the nation across all weight classes based on his ability alone, and was stated to be able to go for World Pro boxing, but didn't do it for whatever reason. He has been undefeated for 9 rounds straight.

Said Siha Lee has been effortlessly beaten by Ryu, and wasn't even able to predict any of his movements. Siha also stated that he didn't have a sliver of a chance against that 'monster', said monster being Yu.

Then comes Jean Pierre, a Lightweight boxing world champion, having been undefeated for 37 matches in his 10 years debut. Dude is such an insane perfectionist that he always hone to achieve perfection in his fighting style to the point that he would risk his life to achieve it. He would wait full hours to extend a single jab, trying to control his body and shiz.

He has been stated to be a genius boxer who is capable of performing such precise techniques and hits, and after constant meditation and risking his life, he has achieved "Perfection", gaining complete control over his body and senses, being able to feel anything in his body from his muscles contracting to his blood flow to everything else.

And of course, he got effortlessly shit stomped by Yu. With Yu being the very image of perfection in Jean's eyes. Dude kept going even after having his face smashed and on the brink of death, stating that he wanted to get closer to the perfection that is Yu.

Yu is also so precise that he has been able to make such a clean cut on his opponent that the doctors stated it looked like it has been cut with a knife, despite the fact Yu was wearing BOXING GLOVES.

Yu also managed to copy Takeda's boxing style with even more precision and much better than Takeda despite Takeda honing it all his life, and Yu managed to copy it effortlessly and shit stomped Takeda to the point he couldn't box anymore.

He can also copy a shit ton of things easily, including beating seemingly expert dudes at their own shit such as video games and masterfully playing air hockey despite never playing it his entire life.

I should mention, Yu never got hit once this ENTIRE TIME.

Finally, he went off against Aaron tide, who is so much stronger than Yu that a single punch would've instantly killed Yu. And he was faster, too. He was so much stronger that Yu's hands began to bleed with how many punches he thrown against this durable ass dude.

Despite that, Yu has been able to deflect Aaron's attack with such precision that even the tiniest mistake would've immediately shattered his fist, and he managed to deflect every attack to an extremely small cut Aaron made on Yu's shoulder, and Yu kept deflecting his attacks to that area, so he doesn't get damage.

Just imagine, having a cut on your shoulder, and then managing to deflect attacks much stronger than you to that small gap in your shoulder, so you don't get damaged.

And of course, he eventually managed to defeat Aaron tide without getting once with the exception of like, small cuts. Although he managed to defeat him by training so hard, he managed to make a dura neg fighting style.

Aaaand that's about it. I'm sure there are a lot more, and the structure of this is quite fucky since I'm quite tired for some reason despite sleeping for 8 hours, so forgive me if some parts seem confusing.
 
Yeah Austin was never lasting long, I also propose to add The Undertaker to replace him on the list outright, as ‘Taker is the actual most skilled in the verse, Theory isn’t even in his league, and holding two spots with the same verse makes no sense
 
I'll make a case for Kenny Omega.

This guy before he even became a wrestler, Held his own against some of the finest MMA and UFC Fighters
He is someone who combines various arts and styles of fighting and is very precise.

Kenny Omega's fighting style revolves around him combining mixed martial arts, kick boxing, karate, grapple and catch Wrestling as well as Lucha Libre combat fighting moves into one and deliver fast paced strikes at the back of the neck knocking out opponents and his agility to drop people on their skull, When fight get's close quarters He uses martial arts Open-hand strikes to harm the enemies between the neck and shoulder blades as well as increase his speed to the point he can dodge strikes from MMA fighter Kushida.

MMA is nothing new to Kenny who decades ago before even becoming a pro wrestler held his own against MMA Fighters and with time has now claimed the title of "The greatest professional wrestler of all time" as well as "The God of Professional Wrestling" which is 100 canon is verse.

Kenny has defeated MMA Legends and best pro wrestler who uses real life shooting style of wrestling.

Omega has trained in NJPW dojo. Omega defeated the likes of Minoru Suzuki who is the originator of MMA & founder the Pancrase martial arts Promotion and an NJPW legend feared by everyone in the company who defeated Ken Shamrock via submission yet lost to kenny in first time ever match which shocked the commentators,

Watch this to know how good Minoru Suzuki is not even in his prime decades ago

Kenny even knocked him out on several occasions as well as match him with his martial arts combat. Omega was able to have a 60 minute draw against Okada at Dominion 6.11 event in 2017, Omega then went on to defeat Kazuchika Okada and ended his 720 days of record World championship reign in a 1:04:50 minutes fight at Dominion 6.9 event in 2018. Omega faced Bryan Danielson who is regarded as a submission specialist and their match ended in a 30 minute draw, Kenny and his long time friend Kota Ibushi were a top NJPW tag team as "Golden☆Lovers" before he broke up and became the leader of the "Bullet Club" since then he's been in a rivalry with his friend Kota who can match him in combat for well over 30 minutes, Kota is both a Martial artist and a Karate tournament winner and as of 2022 IWGP World Heavyweight Champion as well as the trainer of Kenny for over a decade. Kenny Omega was able to held his own against the legend Katsuyori Shibata one of the most dangerous NJPW superstar who is a MMA fighter and a professional kickboxer who can TKO opponents in 9 seconds and is infamously known to cause skull splitting injuries in real life and nearly killed himself.

He has abilities like Analytical Prediction, being able to continuously predict and counter enemies moves in combat.

He also has Accelerated Development, getting a "surge of energy," his fighting style rapidly increases as the match goes and he counter people with superior speed.

Lastly, he has Pressure Point strikes, as he can knock people out with his finishing move the V-Trigger knee strike.

Here are some people that fell victim to Kenny's V-Trigger:

Knocked out Minoru Suzuki MMA and Hybrid+pancreas wrestling legend, Knocked out Shibata who can TKO People in 9 seconds (Who is martial artist+ Professional Kick boxer), Knocked out Chris Jericho, Knocked out Kota Ibushi who is a Karate Touranment + MMA fighter. Held his own against the legend Dan the beast severn who has 100+ MMA wins record just to name a few. Keep in mind Omega wasn't even a world champion doing this long before when his career got boosted to heights. Kenny combines MMA+High flying lucha libre+Karate+Grappling+High speed Open Palm-Stiff Strikes all into one as well as being a supreme strategist with complete utilization of street fight weaponry.
 
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If you guys can settle who from WWE yall want to nominate that'd be cool so we can have an agreement of what character should be used, and inevitably steam rolled by my boy Gaolang.
 
LordGinSama said:
If you guys can settle who from WWE yall want to nominate that'd be cool so we can have an agreement of what character should be used, and inevitably steam rolled by my boy Gaolang.
Click to expand...
Damn you really got no chill but i kinda have the same opinion, whichever WWE characters they give it'll still get steam rolled by Gaolang
 
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