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Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!

This man's would serve Ikki's twink ass on a sliver platter.
giphy.gif
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
I'm still salty cuz with that Dante is practically untouchable here
Click to expand...
We'll see about that, lol

Nominating Sora (Kingdom Hearts) for the Miscellaneous section

Now, before I start, I'd recommend giving this a read, it really expands on what's skill and how it's considerable in fiction and whatever.

Analytical Prediction:

- Sora was capable of opening on Yozora's unusual openings (Yozora will be brought up quite often, so you'll see what I mean) compared to everyone else he fought before, and can even take selfies while weaponless while still dodging anyways (and yeah, that's kinda in-character).

Accelerated Development:

- With only a few months of adventures across the multiverse and with next to no training besides his own, Sora could already compete against properly trained formal Keyblade Masters that were far older than him. Xehanort sticks out out of being over 80 years old and having several kinds of proeficiently usable weapons and powers inherited from other characters, which Sora could totally keep up with.

- Could also quickly grasp the usage of several other forms for his Keyblade as soon as he got them, notably also including the capability to pilot a chariot and a transformation of his Keyblade to nanotech that converts to whatever weapon Sora has in mind (which includes basically most Formchanges, see below).

General Skills and Moveset:

- Has mastered the usage of several kinds of weapons while also switching between them on the fly to optimize combos, besides a sword (Keyblade), there's also a showcased considerable usage of the following by transforming it (Formchanging), which is also regarded as a more refined technique than dual wielding: Hammer, flag, yo-yos, drill, shield, claws, arrowguns, cannon, (magical) staff, skates and arm blades, nanotech and even more blades. Of note is that he can also dual wield Keyblades (as implied before), triple wield even, and has adapted to backfiring the weapon of the opponent, which has included a scythe and a claymore as well. Later on he also displays the capabiity to wield from 7 swords at once to 20, then way more I can count by doing a danmaku as he directly deflects it himself to opponents.

- In terms of mobility, besides the countless mobility options applicable to a good portion of the moves usable with the above weapons and stuff, to the point "endless" combos are possible if the opponent lacks straight up notable flight or teleportation, namely by preventing the opponent from having a chance to do much at all, Sora has also displayed the capability to perform aerial dashes, recover quickly after being sent flying (Aerial Recovery) and wall jumping (Flowmotion), let alone the capability to spam Aerial Dodge, acting as a flight enhancement that also minimizes considerably vulnerability.

- Lore-wise, Sora's only not regarded formally as a Keyblade Master out of failing the Mark of Mastery (or rather, was disqualified out of external events), even if he can still beat up "proper" Keyblade Masters like Aqua and is straight up above King Mickey, who has been one for over a decade. In any case, beings like Sora are regarded in the Age of Fairytales (which inherit his power, and are already aware of Keyblade Masters themselves) as "unimaginable forces of the future".

- Could go all on his own against an army of 1000 opponents, and displays tactical knowledge out of dividing the work between Donald and Goofy for the whole army, and has been able to keep up with multiple opponents at once, be it with their own fighting styles to synchronized duplicates of the respective character, and Sora can also make avatars of himself to overwhelm opponents as well in synchronization.

Intelligence and Information Analysis:

- Could quickly grasp the concept of programming to the point he can edit code that's changing in real time for a variety of effects, has performed multiple kinds of sports and met tens of cultures across the multiverse, in any case scans for that stuff are on the Intelligence section of the profile.

- Could surprise Master Xehanort, who was seemingly aware of the last contents of the Book of Prophecies, which foretold his victory, yet Sora could overwrite that with an outside the box usage of the Power of Waking.

- Like several other characters, Sora has the innate ability to see the remaining health of the opponent, and even has the sense to tell where the opponent is even if he's not directly seeing it.

- Can find the "real" Luxord between many duplicate cards before he runs out of time.

Instinctive Reaction:

- Could reflect omnidirectional lasers of nonexistencial nature from all directions in synchronization with Riku, later on he has also displayed the capability to do it on his own even while having to worry about unreflectable bullets and surprise attacks.

- Has shown the capability to react to attacks from behind with no prior in-universe warning and plenty of teleport-based or "instant" attacks as well, let alone while also having to worry about a nearby danmaku of lasers.

Mimicry:

- Read the Intelligence section on the page in the KHII section for more information, but basically, Sora has shown the capability to quickly replicate skills from his opponents mid-battle, from gambling to teleporting around and jumping.

- Has been stealing Roxas's fighting style out of his ability to fight quite similarly to him while in Double Form.

----

Also, fun fact, Sora has an higher intelligence rating right now than Dante, let that sink in.

INB4 I die.
 
Last edited:
Firephoenixearl said:
Anyway let's have the people vote for this now:

On 1 had we have Kojiro who: Has analytical prediction which has been stated to read thousands of moves.

On the other hand we have Ikki: Has AP which has been stated to read countless of moves, thoughts, feelings etc etc, has worked against things that can't be perceived, has read through actions that had happened before the PV had kicked in, and a lot of other things. On top of this he has extreme body control, skill copying to a ridiculous degree, better info analysis, better reactive evolution, trackless step, has reached a point where he doesn't even need acceleration but goes 0 to full speed instantly, energy control in both flowing and using, can make his attack soundless by making it so 0 energy is lost during the swing, fixing his body instantly while getting prob haxed into failing, extreme senses, echolocation, senses, attack reflection, can attack the insides of someone, and much much more.

I did not mention things from both characters that are the same (that both characters can do, so things like mental fighting). Feel free to place your votes.
Click to expand...
Bumping for votes.
 
Bobsican said:
We'll see about that, lol

Nominating Sora (Kingdom Hearts) for the Miscellaneous section

Now, before I start, I'd recommend giving this a read, it really expands on what's skill and how it's considerable in fiction and whatever.

Analytical Prediction:

- Sora was capable of opening on Yozora's unusual openings (Yozora will be brought up quite often, so you'll see what I mean) compared to everyone else he fought before, and can even take selfies while weaponless while still dodging anyways (and yeah, that's kinda in-character).

Accelerated Development:

- With only a few months of adventures across the multiverse and with next to no training besides his own, Sora could already compete against properly trained formal Keyblade Masters that were far older than him. Xehanort sticks out out of being over 80 years old and having several kinds of proeficiently usable weapons and powers inherited from other characters, which Sora could totally keep up with.

- Could also quickly grasp the usage of several other forms for his Keyblade as soon as he got them, notably also including the capability to pilot a chariot and a transformation of his Keyblade to nanotech that converts to whatever weapon Sora has in mind (which includes basically most Formchanges, see below).

General Skills and Moveset:

- Has mastered the usage of several kinds of weapons while also switching between them on the fly to optimize combos, besides a sword (Keyblade), there's also a showcased considerable usage of the following by transforming it (Formchanging), which is also regarded as a more refined technique than dual wielding: Hammer, flag, yo-yos, drill, shield, claws, arrowguns, cannon, (magical) staff, skates and arm blades, nanotech and even more blades. Of note is that he can also dual wield Keyblades (as implied before), triple wield even, and has adapted to backfiring the weapon of the opponent, which has included a scythe and a claymore as well.

- In terms of mobility, besides the countless mobility options applicable to a good portion of the moves usable with the above weapons and stuff, to the point "endless" combos are possible if the opponent lacks straight up notable flight or teleportation, namely by preventing the opponent from having a chance to do much at all. Sora has also displayed the capability to perform aerial dashes, recover quickly after being sent flying (Aerial Recovery) and wall jumping (Flowmotion), let alone the capability to spam Aerial Dodge, acting as a flight enhancement that also minimizes considerably vulnerability.

- Lore-wise, Sora's only not regarded formally as a Keyblade Master out of failing the Mark of Mastery (or rather, was disqualified out of external events), even if he can still beat up "proper" Keyblade Masters like Aqua and is straight up above King Mickey, who has been one for over a decade. In any case, beings like Sora are regarded in the Age of Fairytales (which inherit his power, and are already aware of Keyblade Masters themselves) as "unimaginable forces of the future".

- Could go all on his own against an army of 1000 opponents, and displays tactical knowledge out of dividing the work between Donald and Goofy for the whole army, and has been able to keep up with multiple opponents at once, be it with their own fighting styles to synchronized duplicates of the respective character, and Sora can also make avatars of himself to overwhelm opponents as well in synchronization.

Intelligence and Information Analysis:

- Could quickly grasp the concept of programming to the point he can edit code that's changing in real time for a variety of effects, has performed multiple kinds of sports and met tens of cultures across the multiverse, in any case scans for that stuff are on the Intelligence section of the profile.

- Could surprise Master Xehanort, who was seemingly aware of the last contents of the Book of Prophecies, which foretold his victory, yet Sora could overwrite that with an outside the box usage of the Power of Waking.

- Like several other characters, Sora has the innate ability to see the remaining health of the opponent, and even has the sense to tell where the opponent is even if he's not directly seeing it.

- Can find the "real" Luxord between many duplicate cards before he runs out of time.

Instinctive Reaction:

- Could reflect omnidirectional lasers of nonexistencial nature from all directions in synchronization with Riku, later on he has also displayed the capability to do it on his own even while having to worry about unreflectable bullets and surprise attacks.

- Has shown the capability to react to attacks from behind with no prior in-universe warning and plenty of teleport-based or "instant" attacks as well, let alone while also having to worry about a nearby danmaku of lasers.

Mimicry:

- Read the Intelligence section on the page in the KHII section for more information, but basically, Sora has shown the capability to quickly replicate skills from his opponents mid-battle, from gambling to teleporting around and jumping.

- Has been stealing Roxas's fighting style out of his ability to fight quite similarly to him while in Double Form.

----

Also, fun fact, Sora has an higher intelligence rating right now than Dante, let that sink in.

INB4 I die.
Click to expand...
You wanna go for Dante's spot?
 
1. That's just for fun
2. That's a fight over there not just baseless "i think this is more impressive", that is just concrete who would win in a fight when we're counting only raw skill. It's not the same debate.
 
azontr said:
Why, we already argued it here
Click to expand...
Btw, since stuff like kouki, Kojiro, and Chinamen's Enhanced Senses stuff is allowed, is it safe to say I can use Hengen Muso feats for Rishia?

She legit has better feats than Dante objectively although he has her in experience, I just need to put them in a more organized and cohesive list.
 
YungManzi said:
Btw, since stuff like kouki, Kojiro, and Chinamen's Enhanced Senses stuff is allowed, is it safe to say I can use Hengen Muso feats for Rishia?

She legit has better feats than Dante objectively although he has her in experience, I just need to put them in a more organized and cohesive list.
Click to expand...
I don't even remember what Hengen Muso is tbh.
 
azontr said:
I don't even remember what Hengen Muso is tbh.
Click to expand...
YungManzi said:
Rishia has a feat of dodging danmaku from someone who blitzes her via Hengen Muso precog (Which is really just analytical prediction via reading someone's life-force to predict their actions). The danmaku being expansive enough that a room full of people (Like 8 or something+) comparable to her (Scratch that, she's the slowest and weakest in the room, actually) and skilled in their own right, couldn't dodge it even when it was spread out; and she could dodge it while it was all focused on her.

Hengen Muso style itself as a discipline is built to shut down strength and speed advantages and can allow level 100 non-heroes to fight level 350 heroes.
Click to expand...
YungManzi said:
And to let you know exactly how big of a difference this is: It's at least a five times difference in all stats scaling-wise, and that's assuming they even have the same growth-rate, which isn't the case. That's not factoring in additional power-up methods, growth adjustments, and dragon vein scaling which can more than double growth rates, so we're potentially looking at a more than 10 times stat difference in all areas, and even that's a lowball cause:
There are 12 PU methods heroes are capable of and a difference of two is comparable to a 3x multiplier. Normal humans have no PU methods.
And that's just Fohl doing that (100 non-hero vs 350 hero), he absolutely pales in comparison to Rishia who's one of if not the greatest martial art talent in the verse.
So... pretty good prediction that I didn't bring up.
Click to expand...
I'll list the actual feats with links and/or quotes in 10 hours, I'm about to go to work.
 
I'm pretty sure sensing life force is full-on supernatural extrasensory perception, not enhanced senses.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Life force sensing is supernatural, but the analytical prediction off of it "might" be fair game. A bit questionable though.
Click to expand...
Who’s to say, life-force sensing as valid as people hearing the faintest changes in your breath from tens of meters away, and using that to predict stuff.
 
YungManzi said:
Who’s to say, life-force sensing as valid as people hearing the faintest changes in your breath from tens of meters away, and using that to predict stuff.
Click to expand...
No, it's not lel. That's a physical ability, aka a skill, life force is a supernatural substance.

Like, sensing the faintest muscle twitches in the body to use analytical prediction is different from using a supernatural force to do so.
 
Btw, i think each nomination (be it in the list or not) should post all their feats, scaling, etc into a blog/sandbox as otherwise will be hard to go through hundreds of posts to find it..and how several characters had their feats put in multiple posts on separate pages will make it even harder.

Plus it being in a sandbox/blog will make it easier to update.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Btw, i think each nomination (be it in the list or not) should post all their feats, scaling, etc into a blog/sandbox as otherwise will be hard to go through hundreds of posts to find it..and how several characters had their feats put in multiple posts on separate pages will make it even harder.

Plus it being in a sandbox/blog will make it easier to update.
Click to expand...
The feats are linked in the list tho.
 
I know what he's talking about, and no, the posts with the feats are already linked on the list, so a blog or sandbox is completely unnecessary.
 
I think he say that because, while the initial arguments could be linked in the op, at the end more feats and explanations about the character skill are commented in other post which can be hard to see (like for example in Kouki case there is only linked the post with the initial arguments, while in the later post of the previous thread more feats and explanations were added about his skill).
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I think he say that because, while the initial arguments could be linked in the op, at the end more feats and explanations about the character skill are commented in other post which can be hard to see (like for example in Kouki case there is only linked the post with the initial arguments, while in the later post of the previous thread more feats and explanations were added about his skill).
Click to expand...
Then edit those feats into the original post. 🗿
 
Zhong Yue lacks for example some i mentioned after I posted the first thread, Xu Jingming got an update and had 4 new added.

Kojiro's explaination is on multiple pages, same for Ikki. And these could be easier in one place to be read and understood. Likely more characters.

Thats why having a blog/sandbox helps as it can be edited each time is needed and not depend on one person to remember each changes and know to update the first post here.
 
Like feel free to formulate a blog/sandbox. I'll accept it all the same. But don't expect having a blog/sandbox to be mandatory.
 
While not a sandbox (maybe later I could do one) I finished with the part trying to tell the general verse skill level to show better above what most Arifureta characters with profiles scale, specially the ones proposed for a post.

An human, who in verse is just decently skilled, is able to act perfectly normal while having his senses sealed (btw this character is unable to use magic or any supernatural power, so this is completely a pure skill feat). Acting without a sense or various senses is somehing consistent through the verse, with characters like Chris (who thanks to his battle honed instincts can dodge invisible spatial attacks), Vanessa (who had her eyesight robbed by a flashbang and even so could move in a room full of armed men), Gahard (who can not only defend against the ranged attacks of 120 Haulia from all directions with just the sound of the attacks alone while in complete darkness, but he can also do the same while having both his sight and hearing impaired do to the effects of flashbangs) or Detref (who could fight without any problem inside a fog with magical effects that affect the senses of the enemies inside), it's also said how just third-rate warriors relied just in their sight in a fight, and there are several more examples of situations of people fighting without be able to rely on their senses, some of which will appear in following scans.

Normal humans, humans unable to use any unique energy or supernatural power, can also do some extreme martial and acrobatics feats with high level of precision. Like for example the ones displayed in the fight between Kimberley and Allen (btw, the Berserkers mentioned are mutants created with a virus whihc transform people in strong monsters that can't die unless their brain is destroyed and who have potent regeneration), the fight of Vanessa vs Berserker Monkeys, the Allen vs Weiss, when Allen helped Taeko against demons and possessed fanatics (the demons were creatures invisible, that Allen couldn't sense nor perceive or even interact in any way and he only knew they were there, while the possessed fanatics were people with higher specs do to be possessed), when Sabas fought against the soldiers of the futuristic empire, in the whole Fukube vs onmyoujis fight (the onmyoujis were humans able to use special powers, that additionally summoned fantasy creatures called shikis which are basically monsters with some special trait), there is also how Liliana (a princess that never in her life had physical combat training) mastered Aikido from internet videos which is a decent martial feat. While not actually a martial or acrobatic feat, there are some good precision feats from childs, like the first time Myu used a weapon (Myu had 6 years and this was like two weeks after meet Hajime and become his foster daugther) or Par who sniped apostles from 5km below (Par is a 10 years old child).

The verse also have show groups with high skill regarding warfare, as show with the Haulia clan when they annihilated the demon forces that invaded the Haltina forest. Canonically the Yaegashi clan (a group of completely normal humans) is comparable with the Haulia clan and each have show to share and learn from the other clan, the Yaegashi clan is considered the leader of the ninja clans and are each member have deathly daily training regardless of their age or occupation, are group that can casually try to kill Hajime and who have defeated the elite forces of multiple countries who attacked he Returnees families (which should had the level of characters like Allen, Fukube and even Sabas).
I also edited to add this to the post linked in the op with the Hajime and Kouki feats.

Later will begin to write the post explaining better the skill feats of the proposed characters, but wanted to get rid of this part first, though now I'm honestly exhausted because this took a considerable time to do (mainly turn the scans in imgur albums to share more easily).
 
Bobsican said:
We'll see about that, lol

Nominating Sora (Kingdom Hearts) for the Miscellaneous section

Now, before I start, I'd recommend giving this a read, it really expands on what's skill and how it's considerable in fiction and whatever.

Analytical Prediction:

- Sora was capable of opening on Yozora's unusual openings (Yozora will be brought up quite often, so you'll see what I mean) compared to everyone else he fought before, and can even take selfies while weaponless while still dodging anyways (and yeah, that's kinda in-character).

Accelerated Development:

- With only a few months of adventures across the multiverse and with next to no training besides his own, Sora could already compete against properly trained formal Keyblade Masters that were far older than him. Xehanort sticks out out of being over 80 years old and having several kinds of proeficiently usable weapons and powers inherited from other characters, which Sora could totally keep up with.

- Could also quickly grasp the usage of several other forms for his Keyblade as soon as he got them, notably also including the capability to pilot a chariot and a transformation of his Keyblade to nanotech that converts to whatever weapon Sora has in mind (which includes basically most Formchanges, see below).

General Skills and Moveset:

- Has mastered the usage of several kinds of weapons while also switching between them on the fly to optimize combos, besides a sword (Keyblade), there's also a showcased considerable usage of the following by transforming it (Formchanging), which is also regarded as a more refined technique than dual wielding: Hammer, flag, yo-yos, drill, shield, claws, arrowguns, cannon, (magical) staff, skates and arm blades, nanotech and even more blades. Of note is that he can also dual wield Keyblades (as implied before), triple wield even, and has adapted to backfiring the weapon of the opponent, which has included a scythe and a claymore as well.

- In terms of mobility, besides the countless mobility options applicable to a good portion of the moves usable with the above weapons and stuff, to the point "endless" combos are possible if the opponent lacks straight up notable flight or teleportation, namely by preventing the opponent from having a chance to do much at all. Sora has also displayed the capability to perform aerial dashes, recover quickly after being sent flying (Aerial Recovery) and wall jumping (Flowmotion), let alone the capability to spam Aerial Dodge, acting as a flight enhancement that also minimizes considerably vulnerability.

- Lore-wise, Sora's only not regarded formally as a Keyblade Master out of failing the Mark of Mastery (or rather, was disqualified out of external events), even if he can still beat up "proper" Keyblade Masters like Aqua and is straight up above King Mickey, who has been one for over a decade. In any case, beings like Sora are regarded in the Age of Fairytales (which inherit his power, and are already aware of Keyblade Masters themselves) as "unimaginable forces of the future".

- Could go all on his own against an army of 1000 opponents, and displays tactical knowledge out of dividing the work between Donald and Goofy for the whole army, and has been able to keep up with multiple opponents at once, be it with their own fighting styles to synchronized duplicates of the respective character, and Sora can also make avatars of himself to overwhelm opponents as well in synchronization.

Intelligence and Information Analysis:

- Could quickly grasp the concept of programming to the point he can edit code that's changing in real time for a variety of effects, has performed multiple kinds of sports and met tens of cultures across the multiverse, in any case scans for that stuff are on the Intelligence section of the profile.

- Could surprise Master Xehanort, who was seemingly aware of the last contents of the Book of Prophecies, which foretold his victory, yet Sora could overwrite that with an outside the box usage of the Power of Waking.

- Like several other characters, Sora has the innate ability to see the remaining health of the opponent, and even has the sense to tell where the opponent is even if he's not directly seeing it.

- Can find the "real" Luxord between many duplicate cards before he runs out of time.

Instinctive Reaction:

- Could reflect omnidirectional lasers of nonexistencial nature from all directions in synchronization with Riku, later on he has also displayed the capability to do it on his own even while having to worry about unreflectable bullets and surprise attacks.

- Has shown the capability to react to attacks from behind with no prior in-universe warning and plenty of teleport-based or "instant" attacks as well, let alone while also having to worry about a nearby danmaku of lasers.

Mimicry:

- Read the Intelligence section on the page in the KHII section for more information, but basically, Sora has shown the capability to quickly replicate skills from his opponents mid-battle, from gambling to teleporting around and jumping.

- Has been stealing Roxas's fighting style out of his ability to fight quite similarly to him while in Double Form.

----

Also, fun fact, Sora has an higher intelligence rating right now than Dante, let that sink in.

INB4 I die.
Click to expand...
I personally don't see anything remotely comparable to Dante's stuff here and the IR thing isn't even like his, more like dodging some gilgamesh stuff.

And if intelligence was a factor there is this (who btw needs to be omniscient) and this thread that should have been applied a long time ago

Also the rest can cope with DMC, godly shit right there >:v
 
azontr said:
No, it's not lel. That's a physical ability, aka a skill, life force is a supernatural substance.

Like, sensing the faintest muscle twitches in the body to use analytical prediction is different from using a supernatural force to do so.
Click to expand...
Arguable. Life-force is literally dependent on your physical condition.

Shield hero already has supernatural energies you can’t equate this to; Magic and Soul Power, in which case life force isn’t either of those. And you can boost it literally by drinking a sports drink.
 
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