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Oh boy, shit just got real... (Also hi Earl, long time no see)
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Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!
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Curious what position Earl's aiming for (it's first ain't it?) cause even just current nr. 5 is insane.
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I mean, any reason Ikki can't go for 1st? Ikki used to be the 1st back then, do we got some new black horse?
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The splice into categories might allow some people who are very good at sword stuff but not that skilled in other areas more of a fighting chance against Ikki.
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Even in the "most skilled swordsman" category he still made first. I guess it was technically edelweiss but same thing.
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Ah I see. Where do you hang out now to debate btw? Kinda wanna do Ben vs Ikki again.
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LMAO
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Nowhere really, Im not really debating at all pretty much, just work, hanging out in discord, some gaming and movies. Which is why i hopped on here, just to debate a bit since it's been a while.
Well well, someone's scared of the goat himself. All the legends and gods in the list are scared of some kid with a sword and an abusive dad? hehI hereby ban Ikki Kurogane from all future discussions.
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Oh btw azontr, could you maybe put who's aiming for what category in the pending list? Might take a shot at Bullseye but I wanna know if it's worth it.
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I'm really not sure what constitutes a good ranged feat.
If it's just sniping, Makoto can snipe something literally on the other side of the planet by thinking about hitting it, not even knowing it's location. But that's kind of a combination of skill+supernatural iirc.
Other than that stuff, most of what he does is par for the course for ranged feats I think; hitting very small moving targets from hundreds of meters away.
^Chapter 28
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Time to DM zara then.
Also i might throw in Hayato for the barehanded category though idk which sub category he should be in. Maybe old school.
Also i might throw in Hayato for the barehanded category though idk which sub category he should be in. Maybe old school.
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For ikki skill feats i'll just link the previous skill threads. 
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I was thinking in how he was trained for one of the best martial artist in the world in the bow, how he even know cqc with a bow, how even before in Earth he was so absurdly good with the bow that her teacher forvive him from ever join a competition, how not only him but everyone (even people that didn't knew him or knew anything about archery) that saw him before let go a arrow were completely sure that he would hit his target (along with think that in that moment he is divinely beautiful like an art of work, this despite how his appareance is average or below average), how despite a natural lack of talent with the bow do to pure constant training his ability with it reached a point were he created a new skill (something that amezed the gods that control countless worlds and who stated that something like that have ever happened two time in history and by Alexander The Great and Erich Hartmann, though in their cases they just modified their natural talent to create a skill while Makoto create one with no talent), how regardless of be wounded can hit his target even from hundreds of meters of distance despite obstacles in the middle (this obviously before the point were his ability with the bow reached the hax level and he become able to hit his target regardless of distance and even hit it before let go the arrow and still hit the objetive), his concentration before let go of a arrow is to the point that his ego die and is reborn in a way that make sure he will hit his target, etc.
Things like this were what I was thinking to his skill feats and asked you because you can more easily get the scans.
With his feats he can go to second place, specially since there is no one taking the spot.
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Tbh, I skipped the earth chapters both of the last times I read this and haven't read them in legit like 5-7 years (Earth flashbacks are just really uninteresting imo, even more so than the mundane Asora building chapters; because at least we see characters that actually have presence in those) . Not at the gods coming to Asora part yet, but I do remember them being impressed by his skills.
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In the extra chapters is given some interesting info about Makoto back in Earth, which is actually good for some feats this, the gods part I'm talking is actually from the extra chapters (I believe it was just before Susanoo and co visited Makoto and then learned from the sisters destiny about how he created his own new destiny and skill with the bow without talent).
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Ok ok, lemme start some fun here, going by https://vsbattles.com/threads/return-of-the-most-skilled-thread.134475/page-5#post-4766766 this post, going over point by point.
-Classic skill copying, Ikki does that and perfects the style beyond even the original owners, he doesn't stop at learning the essence.
-Sounds like IR, Ikki does complex sword skills mid fight unconscious.
-140%, ikki achieved ittou shura.
-Multiple weapon mastery, since this is about swords i'll skip
-64, ikki has 128 perfected sword arts all of which he's fully mastered and learned the entire history of (cus for some reason he does that)
-Body control, ikki controls the vectors, blood, muscles, energy flowing through it, can even choose what his brain perceives. He kinda out here.
-Deduced information from 2 sentences, time to bring up the "ikki learning styles from touching thighs meme" again.
-Fighting 23 people, i mean ikki fought his clon---cough i mean that's scaling so not a good way to judge skill.
-Not even sure what this means, simple, complex. Not sure what kind of "simple movement is complex" is supposed to mean. Sounds like very pretty words for "he has no wasted movements" which ikki also lacks.
-Can break skills, the scan is just attack reflection which ikki also has, but he also has the "can cut metal with paper via skill" shit.
-Scaling
-Copying skill feat, went over this earlier.
-Again copying.
-Ikki has also created his own moves, all secret sword arts are self made.
-A lot of the rest of the points are kind of different feats for the same thing. so imma move on.
-Predicting, ikki got perfect vision. Idk if i need to elaborate further.
All the last part is just "he will know every art ever" pretty much, which isn't the best form of scaling cus we don't know how good these arts are in the first place.
Sheesh, haven't done one of these in years.
-Classic skill copying, Ikki does that and perfects the style beyond even the original owners, he doesn't stop at learning the essence.
-Sounds like IR, Ikki does complex sword skills mid fight unconscious.
-140%, ikki achieved ittou shura.
-Multiple weapon mastery, since this is about swords i'll skip
-64, ikki has 128 perfected sword arts all of which he's fully mastered and learned the entire history of (cus for some reason he does that)
-Body control, ikki controls the vectors, blood, muscles, energy flowing through it, can even choose what his brain perceives. He kinda out here.
-Deduced information from 2 sentences, time to bring up the "ikki learning styles from touching thighs meme" again.
-Fighting 23 people, i mean ikki fought his clon---cough i mean that's scaling so not a good way to judge skill.
-Not even sure what this means, simple, complex. Not sure what kind of "simple movement is complex" is supposed to mean. Sounds like very pretty words for "he has no wasted movements" which ikki also lacks.
-Can break skills, the scan is just attack reflection which ikki also has, but he also has the "can cut metal with paper via skill" shit.
-Scaling
-Copying skill feat, went over this earlier.
-Again copying.
-Ikki has also created his own moves, all secret sword arts are self made.
-A lot of the rest of the points are kind of different feats for the same thing. so imma move on.
-Predicting, ikki got perfect vision. Idk if i need to elaborate further.
All the last part is just "he will know every art ever" pretty much, which isn't the best form of scaling cus we don't know how good these arts are in the first place.
Sheesh, haven't done one of these in years.
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Is his trackless step skill-based? If so that's the level of ridiculous that Planck is describing.
Edit: Oh wait Earl took the easy way out and just explained why Ikki is better at doing the most impressive feats that the current nr.1 has... guess that works too.
Edit: Oh wait Earl took the easy way out and just explained why Ikki is better at doing the most impressive feats that the current nr.1 has... guess that works too.
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Yes it is.
Yes I did. No matter the skill feat odds are ikki has done or outdone that feat.
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Oh well shit, so basically this guy is so skilled that with his movement he uses like social influencing to convince people he is unimportant right?
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So things like beat Fate and probability hax with skill should be the kind of feats you're looking for.
Thank god ikki hasn't done anything like that before, amirite.
Thing is I didn't really go into details on why many of the things i mentioned are bullshit as all hell. Perfect vision alone is 30 layers into "bullshit" for skill levels. The best analytical prediction in the wiki (at least it used to be, idk if anyone has topped it).
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so performing hax with skill could land you a spot on the list?
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Nope, that's the point of Ikki, everything he does is beyond stupid but not to the point of being hax.
Basically things like "can learn your sword style's entire history and perfect it by seeing it", but not "was so skilled the dimensions fused and he gained concept hax". He's in that thin border between acceptable.
Basically things like "can learn your sword style's entire history and perfect it by seeing it", but not "was so skilled the dimensions fused and he gained concept hax". He's in that thin border between acceptable.
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Not really, there's silliness and then thers outright hax, but you claim that what you've said about Ikki means he outright beats the No. 1 and....eeeh?
Yue's more Zara's alley so I'll let him debate it but I'll try to compare him to Ning (here's to hoping this won't take 3 pages);
Ning does more or less the same and gets to the point of dissecting, mastering and improving them with slight contemplation.
Ikki admittedly has Ning beat in the feats department for IR. Ning can defend himself while his soul is comatose but nothing really special beyond that.
Yeah, same.
Ning has 500,000 mastered sword arts from the best swordsmen in all of the cosmos and integrated them all into his swordplay.
This is hard for me since while Ning can do it as well, I'm not confident in discerning where skill ends and powers begin.
Ning can tell one's skill and ability with a glance but for learning he does have to see it once I think.
Since you think so then I won't address this as well.
Ning creates his own sword arts as well as sword arts perfectly suited for others just by observing them a bit and hands them out as gifts.
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No, it really shouldn't. I illustrated the example as something that still showcases aspects of skill (like pressure pointing or out-precisioning far more powerful opponents) despite being rather exaggerated.
It shouldn't be "Bob looked at the sword and can now turn back time" type stuff.
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I'll comeback with a pick for the swordsman category later with that clarified then.
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No hax, he beat hax with skill, not achieved hax.
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Oh, I'm not saying Ikki is hax, just that we shouldn't look at outright hax feats and count them as skill.
azontr
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Beating hax with sheer skill is not quantifiable and has been rejected already, for example;
Dante (DMC) dodging attacks while within a void that was omnipresent and was practically spawning attacks on top of him. That's not quantifiable. Ikki outskilling destiny or whatever is just as unacceptable.
Dante (DMC) dodging attacks while within a void that was omnipresent and was practically spawning attacks on top of him. That's not quantifiable. Ikki outskilling destiny or whatever is just as unacceptable.
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Rip Place 5 Sion if Ikki enters the ring, it was nice while it lasted
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