• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Warriors of Heaven and Hell: The Most Skilled on the Wiki!

Beating hax with sheer skill is not quantifiable and has been rejected already, for example;
It is if there is an actual explanation. The explanation for Ikki is, he fixed his body instantly (subconsciously) as the probability hax made him fail. So it's not as simple as "so skilled probability hax didn't work on him", there is a true explanation so the feat when you break it down is "has mastered his body so well even if he makes or is forced to make a mistake his body instantly fixes itself".
 
Ning does more or less the same and gets to the point of dissecting, mastering and improving them with slight contemplation.
Ikki learns the whole style's history along with techniques not even the original owner knows.
Yeah, same.
I should mention Ittou amps are "several hundred times" boost to his capabilities, all through body control.
Ning has 500,000 mastered sword arts from the best swordsmen in all of the cosmos and integrated them all into his swordplay.
As i said about Zhong, the number isn't usually a good way to tell skill, because you can't be sure how good or usable these skills are in fights.
This is hard for me since while Ning can do it as well, I'm not confident in discerning where skill ends and powers begin.
I can say for certain everything ikki does here is pure skill. Nothing magic based.
Ning can tell one's skill and ability with a glance but for learning he does have to see it once I think.
That's the average swordsman in rakudai "i can see from your stance that you're an extremely good swordsman", even stella can tell how flawed or flawless a stance is with a direct sight.
Ning creates his own sword arts as well as sword arts perfectly suited for others just by observing them a bit and hands them out as gifts.
Yeah ikki did the same to Ayase, fixed her stance and position so that her body would be more used to using her own sword art.

But there's just so much more to ikki: trackless step, perfect vision, edel's sword style, visualization, senses, energy redirection, reactive evolution, etc.
 
Id like to see if Capricorn Shura has a possibility of entering a spot for Swordsman (or er maybe martial arts? you see.. his body is the holy sword exalibur)

giving a quick run down.

- All Saints are trained in every martial arts at a very young age including sword techniques like the Tararus Saint for example who doesn't even use a sword but incorporates the iai technique for his "great horn ability." Additionally, there is unconvential and additional pressure points on saints that spells certain death if struck. |||| shura is no exception to this.

- A Saints skill at adapting to an opponent is excellent. They just need to see a technique once and they can counter it the next time.

- Saints can additionally take brutal injuries and still continue to fight (which should already listed on their profiles) and shura is no exception to this either. He lost both his arms and his legs and was still using his body as the holy sword Excalibur to continue fighting.

- A true swordsman can predict up to 30% of oncoming attacks, but Roland could predict with accuracy greater than 90%. Shura countered Roland's analytical prediction with his eyes closed.

- even before that he was already doing a great job countering Roland's attacks that had Analytical Prediction involved with them. Some of these attacks were omnidirectional homing attacks and a Danmaku (should be in the link above)

- Despite Saints having mastered many different types of martial arts style. Shura still creates new attacks when fighting Saints from other worlds whom have seen many techniques to counter as they fought in many battles. The Gladiators are an excellent example as they are Saints from another world, and they went from World to World to conquer god knows how many other universes.

Edit: imgur messed up and made some of the scans in the links out of order. fack






Edit 2:

Adding more to Capricorn Shura here.

Capricorn Shura got stuck in a limbo state where he was forced to fight for eternity to save infinite worlds.

qBhbCsK.jpeg


無限に存在する「現在」を救う為永久に闘う「修羅」と化したのか?

Translation:
Have you become an ashura who fights eternally in order to save the
infinite worlds/presents(?)
Translated here

aj73jqV.png



無限に存在する多次元宇宙

その世界に広がる水遠の滅びの中で

別の世界の自分すら倒し

未来を変える道を探し続けた先に辿り着く境地

translation:

The infinite multidimensional universes.

In the perdition of the watery distance that spreads over that world.

I have defeated even my own self in another world.

The state that is reached when one continues to search for a way to change the future.

even fought other worldly variants of his own self.

So, he has a literal eternity/infinity of battle experience.







Analytical prediction wise. He's near 100%. He out scales someone who has ">90% accuracy."

Said Analytical Predictions involves predicting how the opponent will move


Both Roland and Shura go into it in detail on how they predict each other moves. Shura had to out predict the predicter.






Edit 3:

Shura was completely paralyzed from a brain injury that gave him vertical shock, but he was still able to counter attack despite being paralyzed



A bit of a continuation of the above. This was a counter attack to a technique he never even seen before. A technique never even used on him or anyone else. he had no knowledge on it but he already Analytically predicted it. He then reflected the technique back by applying the same technique the Titan just used.



on top of that, he even counter attacked while in a state of unconsciousness.





Shura also countered, blocked, and deflected an omnidirectional infinite attack. twice.


on top of that all saints possess the 6th sense. This Extra Sense is "instinct" allowing them to know of danger before it hits them. Instinct gets stronger the more experience one accumulates in their life.


Summary;

- All Saints are trained in every martial arts at a very young age including sword techniques like the Tararus Saint for example who doesn't even use a sword but incorporates the iai technique for his "great horn ability." Additionally, there is unconvential and additional pressure points on saints that spells certain death if struck. |||| shura is no exception to this.

- A Saints skill at adapting to an opponent is excellent. They just need to see a technique once and they can counter it the next time.

- Saints can additionally take brutal injuries and still continue to fight (which should already listed on their profiles) and shura is no exception to this either. He lost both his arms and his legs and was still using his body as the holy sword Excalibur to continue fighting.

- A true swordsman can predict up to 30% of oncoming attacks, but Roland could predict with accuracy greater than 90%. Shura countered Roland's analytical prediction with his eyes closed. he out predicted the predicter

- even before that he was already doing a great job countering Roland's attacks that had Analytical Prediction involved with them. Some of these attacks were omnidirectional homing attacks and a Danmaku (should be in the link above)

- Despite Saints having mastered many different types of martial arts style. Shura still creates new attacks when fighting Saints from other worlds whom have seen many techniques to counter as they fought in many battles. The Gladiators are an excellent example as they are Saints from another world, and they went from World to World to conquer god knows how many other universes.

- He has infinite battle experience from fighting (NOT FODDERS but high tiers) life and death battles in infinite worlds. This is basically saying he leveled up his skill infinitely by fighting infinite battles. honestly its probably uncountably infinite considering the verses cosmology but meh

- he can counter attack despite being paralyzed or suffering severe brain injuries, can be missing all his limbs except his head and still fight. he could have a freaking hole in chest and still fight on. He could be missing more than half of all the blood in his body and still fight on.

- His 6th sense gives him an advantage. It acts sort of like a spider sense. It screams "Danger" and tells him where the danger is, and how strong it is, and the best method to avoid it.

- He can copy techniques, and even counter said copied techniques instantly.

- He has also countered, parried, blocked, and deflected an omni-directional infinite attack
 
Last edited:
Kojiro can adapt to attacks that can potentially kill him 18 times in an instant through Thousand-Image Defense so he cockslaps everyone in skill evolution tbh.

I can't see image links rn so everyone else can decide where Shura will go.
 
Ikki learns the whole style's history along with techniques not even the original owner knows.
How's this specifically something better? The history aspect is psychometric and the other techniques aspect isn't mechanically any more impressive than outright reinventing them or modifying them on a whim. All things that Ning could do at 16, let alone now that he's had more and more feats over the course of 800 million years.
I should mention Ittou amps are "several hundred times" boost to his capabilities, all through body control.
The reply was for the second sentence but regarding this, is this that much of a skill feat as opposed to outright statistics amplification.
As i said about Zhong, the number isn't usually a good way to tell skill, because you can't be sure how good or usable these skills are in fights.
All of those techniques utterly dwarfed Ning as he was when he was in his first profile and most of his skill stuff is in his feats section if you want to check it out. It should be good for comparison at least.
I can say for certain everything ikki does here is pure skill. Nothing magic based.
I mean, canonically all of Ning's powers are derived from his sword arts (yes, all of them) so it being considered skill isn't necessarily going to be applicable.

But it doesn't matter since all of Ikkis stuff you've described so far is still skill. Just thought I should point this out for any contentious cases.
That's the average swordsman in rakudai "i can see from your stance that you're an extremely good swordsman", even stella can tell how flawed or flawless a stance is with a direct sight.
I mean yeah, the same applies to all cultivators. Ning reaches this level at Zifu Disciple when there's so many higher skilled swordsman that it's not even funny. He eventually surpasses all of them completely.
Yeah ikki did the same to Ayase, fixed her stance and position so that her body would be more used to using her own sword art.
It's important to note that the advice and sword arts Ning supplies allows one to grow with them in skill and comprehension to outclass the swordsmen of entire worlds. Yeah yeah, "dunno how skilled they are so comparisons are nebulous" I agree but the main aspect is that Ning can map out and exponentially improve one's potential with minimal effort, up to a point at least.
But there's just so much more to ikki: trackless step, perfect vision, edel's sword style, visualization, senses, energy redirection, reactive evolution, etc.
Thing is, a lot of this can be said for Ji ning as well. His aim and precision is high enough that he's horrid in its application when using archery compared to his sword but can make bullseye shots from cross continental distances. His mastery of the sword is such that even drops of water or leaves can be used to his full lethal potential and so on.
 
I'd like to submit Karate Kid for... I guess first spot on the Multi-Faceted Martial Artists list since nobody else is there. I'm not interested in debating stuff out but I think he's a slam dunk until some really nutty guys come along.

I've got a pretty comprehensive RT in his profile which I would recommend checking out but here's some highlights:
This is just the cream of the crop, again there's way more.
 
Last edited:
I'd like to submit Karate Kid for... I guess first spot on the Multi-Faceted Martial Artists list since nobody else is there. I'm not interested in debating stuff out but I think he's a slam dunk until some really nutty guys come along.

I've got a pretty comprehensive RT in his profile which I would recommend checking out but here's some highlights:
This is just the cream of the crop, again there's way more.
Lmao I thought this was the Karate Kid from the movies and I was like "W h a t"
 
I'd like to submit Karate Kid for... I guess first spot on the Multi-Faceted Martial Artists list since nobody else is there. I'm not interested in debating stuff out but I think he's a slam dunk until some really nutty guys come along.

I've got a pretty comprehensive RT in his profile which I would recommend checking out but here's some highlights:
This is just the cream of the crop, again there's way more.
He definitely takes the "so ridiculous it's funny" spot.
 
Lol.

Multi-tasking between schoolwork and forum shit on a school-issued computer so I can't add Karate Kid to 1st spot rn, but we'll just say he's there.

Though technically since Armor is a thread mod he can edit my OP and add Kid himself, if he wants to.
 
Sure, I'll do it.

By the way, would a character that showcases their skill (both martial and weapon-based, albeit mostly the former) when controlling characters with different powersets, but doesn't actually use those skills in combat fit in "miscellaneous"?
 
By the way, would a character that showcases their skill (both martial and weapon-based, albeit mostly the former) when controlling characters with different powersets, but doesn't actually use those skills in combat fit in "miscellaneous"?
Depends I guess. If they stick to a singular combat style and don't use all of what they can in fights (I.E. Basically using multiple arts or weapons in a fight like Dante or Bayonetta), then they wouldn't be in miscellaneous since that's not their main combat choice.

But if they do regularly use combinations of martial arts and other weird weapon combinations then they'd fit. It just depends on what their main fighting style is.
 
His main fighting style is "Be a JRPG Villain", he just turns into some freaky shit and start casting spells, no skill there. But he can also possess his other incarnations through time, and despite some of those incarnations being very skilled, he is capable of winning where they failed. Before becoming a bad guy he used swords and was good with 'em but he's basically a different person now.

So like, zero actual feats and just a fuckton of upscaling from skilled people.

I might make a couple other entries. None on KK's level, but eh, why not.
 
Lol.

Multi-tasking between schoolwork and forum shit on a school-issued computer so I can't add Karate Kid to 1st spot rn, but we'll just say he's there.

Though technically since Armor is a thread mod he can edit my OP and add Kid himself, if he wants to.
Can he outskill Goku tho?
 
Also also also, if a character's skill is derived from using P&A to draw from an external pool of knowledge, does that classify as skill or would they be disqualified?
 
Also also also, if a character's skill is derived from using P&A to draw from a pool of knowledge, does that classify as skill or would they be disqualified?
uh idk. I'd prefer that it be their own skill and not knowledge they took from some other source but it isn't in the rules.
 
I'd say it depends on if they just let it take over and do the job for them or if they can enact upon said knowledge themselves.
Also if it's something like using it to gain martial knowledge and then apply it or using it to gain precog through it's omniscience (wich wouldn't classify as skill based, but precog through supernatural means.)
 
How's this specifically something better?
It's about info analysis here, Ikki could straight up deduce a lot more
The reply was for the second sentence but regarding this, is this that much of a skill feat as opposed to outright statistics amplification.
It is stat amp absolutely, it was achieved through body control though (skill).
All of those techniques utterly dwarfed Ning as he was when he was in his first profile and most of his skill stuff is in his feats section if you want to check it out. It should be good for comparison at least.
Yeah but nothing concrete concrete, to judge how meaningful, hard or important they are in a fight. I get it, extra info just saying it's not as quantifiable as some of the other things you mentioned.
I agree but the main aspect is that Ning can map out and exponentially improve one's potential with minimal effort, up to a point at least.
Yeah literally what Ikki did to Ayase.

Thing is, a lot of this can be said for Ji ning as well. His aim and precision is high enough that he's horrid in its application when using archery compared to his sword but can make bullseye shots from cross continental distances. His mastery of the sword is such that even drops of water or leaves can be used to his full lethal potential and so on.
Ikki also has his own feats of aim and precision, but i didn't mention them cus it's the swordsman list, not marksman.

As for leaves, he uses rocks and paper as actual deadly weapons, so he got those too.

So how's ikki once you debate against him?
 
Zoro doesn't have precog.
I know but it's similar analogy

Senju Musō (千せんじゅそう, lit. "Thousand Image Defense"):[13] Kojiro's innate ability and talent which allows him to memorize and analyze his opponent's moves to form a simulation of them inside his mind, visualizing and battling said opponent until he finds a way to defeat them.[14] Kojiro often uses this ability to predict his enemies movements via mental simulations, creating and breaking down their thousands of possible attack patterns they might have by analyzing their constitution, gait, breathing and blinking all before the fight even begins.[15][16] However, this ability isn't perfect, since using it puts a burden on Kojiro's body and the predictions themselves aren't 100% accurate, especially if his opponent's holding back.

  • Image Training: Kojiro has memorized the attack patterns of all the people he's ever faced throughout his life and, because of this, he can simulate fights with his previous opponents at anytime in order to train with them and become more powerful. After doing this process for a certain period of time, Kojiro can even copy his opponent's techniques and integrate them in his own fighting style.
  • Manju Musō (萬まんじゅそう, "Infinite Image Defense"): During his fight with Poseidon, Kojiro was able to improve his Senju Musō ability to the point where not only could he analyze his opponent's movements but also the information present in his surroundings using the vibrations travelling through the air and the ground, allowing him to predict his opponents movements even further and make his movements comparable to that of a Supreme God.[17]
Literally the Infinite Image Defense is what zoro already learnt to do in alabasta + more via putting it on his blade kinda I think not sure about that tho
 
I know but it's similar analogy


Literally the Infinite Image Defense is what zoro already learnt to do in alabasta + more via putting it on his blade kinda I think not sure about that tho
I already told you to go to the other thread to debate me. Submit Zoro into Kojiro's spot and we'll go from there, even if Zoro is vastly inferior to anything Kojiro has to offer.
...
 
I know but it's similar analogy


Literally the Infinite Image Defense is what zoro already learnt to do in alabasta + more via putting it on his blade kinda I think not sure about that tho
I mean Kojiro cockslaps anyway given you've brought no actual skill feats on par with his besides "OoOOOOo breath of all things".
 
I mean Kojiro cockslaps anyway given you've brought no actual skill feats on par with his besides "OoOOOOo breath of all things".
That's literally kojiro's main thing/fighting style.... That's his strongest/most skillful thing he has... What are you talking about?

And yet alabasta zoro could learn that plus utilize it to where he can cut anything and nothing (cut what he wants to cut and cut with he doesn't want to cut no matter the force/strength behind the sword)
 
Alright, then. I don't mind if this gets rejected but I'll try anyhow.

I would like to submit Obadiah Archer for... everything? Maybe it's miscellaneous, although he mostly focuses on martial arts, as well as some crossbow usage. And for the record it is an instinctual skill but one that is enhanced as he trains, which he has done for his entire life.
  • Basically, Obie's power is to use the Akashic Plane to telepathically draw information from a universal, collective consciousness of humanity. The very act of doing this is automatic and reflexive and Archer has shown no limits in doing this.
    • He recognize and mimicry any martial art, as well as developing a perfect counter-style to them just as instantly. (Note that the latter feat happened while he was possessed by an information virus, but it doesn't seem to actually have better powers, he just doesn't hold back which is something Archer does a lot since he's a very polite and non-violent boy.)
    • He can also spontaneously use any martial art befitting the situation including ancient and partially forgotten fighting styles such as Pankration or Dim Mak. He is also incredibly athletic.
    • This skill expands on to non-combat fields such as lockpicking, surgery, holding his breath, dancing and well, literally everything else. He's basically Composite Human, in terms of knowledge/skill.
      • This would mean he inherits the skill of characters such as Ninjak and Eternal Warrior, as well as literally anyone he's fighting.
    • Using his power, Archer can engineer unlikely events, such throwing a knife at a goon's trigger finger in such a way that he would involuntarily fire at his colleagues.
    • Archer has never lost a single H2H fight against characters who did not have his same power. The only exceptions to this were him being stat-stomped or canonical CIS.
 
Last edited:
Alright, then. I don't mind if this gets rejected but I'll try anyhow.

I would like to submit Obadiah Archer for... everything? Maybe it's miscellaneous, although he mostly focuses on martial arts, as well as some crossbow usage. And for the record it is an instinctual skill but one that is enhanced as he trains, which he has done for his entire life.
  • Basically, Obie's power is to use the Akashic Plane to telepathically draw information from a universal, collective consciousness of humanity. The very act of doing this is automatic and reflexive and Archer has shown no limits in doing this.
    • He recognize and mimicry any martial art, as well as developing a perfect counter-style to them just as instantly. (Note that the latter feat happened while he was possessed by an information virus, but it doesn't seem to actually have better powers, he just doesn't hold back which is something Archer does a lot since he's a very polite and non-violent boy.)
    • He can also spontaneously use any martial art befitting the situation including ancient and partially forgotten fighting styles such as Pankration or Dim Mak. He is also incredibly athletic.
    • This skill expands on to non-combat fields such as lockpicking, surgery, holding his breath, dancing and well, literally everything else. He's basically Composite Human, in terms of knowledge/skill.
      • This would mean he inherits the skill of characters such as Ninjak and Eternal Warrior, as well as literally anyone he's fighting.
    • Using his power, Archer can engineer unlikely events, such throwing a knife at a goon's trigger finger in such a way that he would involuntarily fire at his colleagues.
Sounds like miscellaneous.
 
Back
Top