Wait what? How is this match inconclusive?

[Aurasuke]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/180102

How did this end up being an inconclusive match? It's more like a stomp thread even with speed equalized. Sans managed to damage Chara but that wasn't her most powerful level. She herself is only 2-B at best, so even if speed is equalized, I don't really see how Homura could be defeated by Sans. She would just time stop right away, and use reality warping to beat him.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

This was before Homura got 2-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sans managed to damage Chara but that wasn't her most powerful level. She herself is only 2-B at best

More like 2-B at least.

 

[Aurasuke]

oh, lol, yeah anyway it should probably be removed so ppl don't get confused lol.

 

[Aurasuke]

Sans managed to damage Chara but that wasn't her most powerful level. She herself is only 2-B at best

More like 2-B at least.

Yeah but Sans didn't fight Frisk at 2-B level. She would be immesurable meaning he would never be able to even catch up with her.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah but Sans didn't fight Frisk at 2-B level. She would be immesurable meaning he would never be able to even catch up with her.

Only their speed and influence was nerfed, not their power.

 

[Aurasuke]

Are you saying Sans can damage Asriel if he didn't move?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Cause him pain were he to actually hit him? Probably. Kill him permanently or cause permanent harm? No. See the Chara battle.

 

[Aurasuke]

^Which means even if Sans hits Homura once, it'll all be over once she uses time stop for speed equalized.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, if he hits we once, she's severely crippled (if not dead) if she doesn't rewind time, first (that's a thing she can do, right? It's been a while so I forget the full extent of her time powers.). However, yes, if she hits him, he's dead.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Question, how can Sans hurts a conceptual being? Even is Homura is not omnipresent here, she is still conceptual.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Question, how can Sans hurts a conceptual being? Even is Homura is not omnipresent here, she is still conceptual.

Chara themself (which is what Sans is attacking due to them hijacking Frisk's soul) is still conceptual. That said, if Homura has the ability to simply turn back the timeline after she dies (like Chara did), Sans can't stop her permanently and the match is pointless.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well I mean, Sans is attacking Frisk, not Chara. He's attacking the body that Chara possess, but Chara, being part of the Anomaly, is still here and kicking after death.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well I mean, Sans is attacking Frisk, not Chara. He's attacking the body that Chara possess, but Chara, being part of the Anomaly, is still here and kicking after death.

Not entirely. Chara can just will themself back from nonexistence at an earlier point in time, and while the body he's hitting is Frisk's, it's still hurting Chara.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well, what hint at Sans hurting Chara here? What makes it different from the others? Sans doesn't even seem to know Chara is here, just that the Player is here, but he seems to treat it as a thing beyond himself thet he cannot hurt, just convince to leave the world alone.

 

[Aurasuke]

Well, if he hits we once, she's severely crippled (if not dead) if she doesn't rewind time, first (that's a thing she can do, right? It's been a while so I forget the full extent of her time powers.). However, yes, if she hits him, he's dead.

BTW are you talking about normal Homura or Demon Homura. Demon Homura is tier High 2-A. She's on a different level compared to Frisk. Sans attacking her may not even hurt her at all.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Hurt =/= actually stop aren't even close to the same thing, which the battle makes abundantly clear. You can kill someone as many times as you want, but if they can simply come back whenever they want to, the best you can do is convince them winning isn't worth their time.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well uh Frisk at max IS High 2-A, I think you meant Chara there @Aura

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

BTW are you talking about normal Homura or Demon Homura. Demon Homura is tier High 2-A. She's on a different level compared to Frisk. Sans attacking her may not even hurt her at all.

I don't know? I remember the battle had several matches, two of which Sans stomped in, and I think Demon Homura with speed equalized was the last one.

Also, Homura isn't really on a different level compared to Frisk, unless you mean AP wise, which doesn't matter here.

 

[Aurasuke]

Okay, well let's say that they're speed is equal on all levels since speed is equalized otherwise Demon Homura just speed blitzes.

Sans leaps in for the kill, Demon Homura stops time, erases sans easily. I just don't see how sans can even hit Homura even if speed is equalized.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Okay, well let's say that they're speed is equal on all levels since speed is equalized otherwise Demon Homura just speed blitzes.
Sans leaps in for the kill, Demon Homura stops time, erases sans easily. I just don't see how sans can even hit Homura even if speed is equalized.

Obviously why speed was equalized in the first place.

Sans doesn't leap in for the kill. He also has significantly better reactions that most other characters of the same speed, along with the ability to automatically restrict them and move them around. Hence why the match was inconclusive. Because it was literally a who hits first wins with equal speed.

 

[Aurasuke]

He also has significantly better reactions that most other characters of the same speed,

That kind of feels one sided saying that he has faster reaction speed than Homura when their speed is equalized.

Are you talking about Blue Mode? It may restriced Homura but not stop her, and even that is debatable because the question to be asked is would it work on Asriel? Homura doesn't really need to even move, the difference between reality warp is just too great IMO. Should really have been considered if he was inconclusive towards Beerus.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That kind of feels one sided saying that he has faster reaction speed than Homura when their speed is equalized.

Are you talking about Blue Mode? It may restriced Homura but not stop her, and even that is debatable because the question to be asked is would it work on Asriel? Homura doesn't really need to even move, the difference between reality warp is just too great IMO. Should really have been considered if he was inconclusive towards Beerus.

It's not his actual speed. He's just far better at actually using it.

Having an inconclusive match against Beerus is meaningless, as Sans is a case-by-case basis fighter. He stomped someone far, far more durable than Beerus, but that doesn't mean he can beat anyone below that durability, nor that he'll lose to just anyone with durability higher than that.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Aura, ya see Sans is like the definition of uber hax (For affecting characters way above him) and crappy hax (For being limited to villians) at the same time. Since technivally Homura killed 401 people/witches in her timelines, her sins are greater than Chara. And Chara could barely hold on too in that fight.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Aura, ya see Sans is like the definition of uber hax (For affecting characters way above him) and crappy hax (For being limited to villians) at the same time.

^

This.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well uh, only KR is limited to vilain...Sans can still hurtz Chara without it...(No one notices me when I say these kind of things it seems)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well uh, only KR is limited to vilain...Sans can still hurtz Chara without it...(No one notices me when I say these kind of things it seems)

Yeah, but Chara'd have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder for him to defeat, without it.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well uh, only KR is limited to vilain...Sans can still hurtz Chara without it...(No one notices me when I say these kind of things it seems)

Ehh yes, but its really that particular hax that puts Sans in a special place here

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well yeah but Sans is like Wall level without Hax, and he manages to hurt Multiversal thing with hax, so it's still impressive either way.

 

[Aurasuke]

Cause him pain were he to actually hit him? Probably. Kill him permanently or cause permanent harm? No. See the Chara battle.

You said yourself though that he wouldn't be able to kill Asriel Homura is also High tier 2-A. Even if Sans manages to hit Homura 1000 times he would lose after just 1 hit/reality warp to win.

Saying that Sans's KC technique would work on Homura because it worked on Frisk would be a NLF. This was earlier in the game so Frisk isn't as strong as she was when she faced Asriel. Frisk may be 2-B but that's a finite number of destroyed universes, Homura has an infinite number of High 2-A. Even if it did work there be no guarantee it would weaken Homura enough for Sans to even do any real damage. As far as I know infinite divided by finite number is still a finite number.

 

[SomebodyData]

You said yourself though that he wouldn't be able to kill Asriel Homura is also High tier 2-A. Even if Sans manages to hit Homura 1000 times he would lose after just 1 hit/reality warp to win.

Saying that Sans's KC technique would work on Homura because it worked on Frisk would be a NLF. This was earlier in the game so Frisk isn't as strong as she was when she faced Asriel. Frisk may be 2-B but that's a finite number of destroyed universes, Homura has an infinite number of High 2-A. Even if it did work there be no guarantee it would weaken Homura enough for Sans to even do any real damage. As far as I know infinite divided by finite number is still a finite number.

You seem to be confusing Chara with Frisk

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You said yourself though that he wouldn't be able to kill Asriel Homura is also High tier 2-A. Even if Sans manages to hit Homura 1000 times he would lose after just 1 hit/reality warp to win.

Saying that Sans's KC technique would work on Homura because it worked on Frisk would be a NLF. This was earlier in the game so Frisk isn't as strong as she was when she faced Asriel. Frisk may be 2-B but that's a finite number of destroyed universes, Homura has an infinite number of High 2-A. Even if it did work there be no guarantee it would weaken Homura enough for Sans to even do any real damage. As far as I know infinite divided by finite number is still a finite number.

I said it wouldn't kill Asriel because Asriel can just reset time, even if he lets himself get hit. God Flowey did the same thing.

I didn't say it would work on Homura because it would work on Frisk? Also, High 2-A is Homura's DURABILITY, not her health. Something which ignores durability can whittle down her health, which unlike her durability, is likely not comparatively infinite.

 

[SomebodyData]

I said it wouldn't kill Asriel because Asriel can just reset time, even if he lets himself get hit. God Flowey did the same thing.

I didn't say it would work on Homura because it would work on Frisk? Also, High 2-A is Homura's DURABILITY, not her health. Something which ignores durability can whittle down her health, which unlike her durability, is likely not comparatively infinite.

What would health count as for other ppl outside undertale? Like the amount of pain they can withstand?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What would health count as for other ppl outside undertale? Like the amount of pain they can withstand?

Probably. Like...if you hit Goku with an attack equal to or greater than his durability, it would do varying amounts of damage to him, the grand total of what he can withstand could be his "health".

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Homura is beyond time. So is Asriel, not quite sure what you mean by reset time.

You are kind of assuming that Homura's health is the same as sans here, by simply one hit she's dead. If speed is equal what kind of hacks would Sans have that could lower said unknown level health bar?

Health bars are also a concept in games, in most anime/manga something like that doesn't exist. I'm not even sure you can apply this kind of direct logic here.

Homura had also reset time in her base form countless times. In her demonform, she might as well reverse time and prevent Sans from even knowing he was fightning before killing him then.

Also are we assuming that San's level of reality warping can even equal Homura's here? Homura's quite a bit more impressive in terms of feats with reality warping. She did merge a bunch of timelines into one at the very least, though the exact amount is unknown.

Wait so it's frisk who fights Sans? K then.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

^ Homura is beyond time. So is Asriel, not quite sure what you mean by reset time.
You are kind of assuming that Homura's health is the same as sans here, by simply one hit she's dead. If speed is equal what kind of hacks would Sans have that could lower said unknown level health bar?

Health bars are also a concept in games, in most anime/manga something like that doesn't exist. I'm not even sure you can apply this kind of direct logic here.

Yes, because he can reset both lower and higher dimensional time?

Nobody assumed Homura has 1 hp. In fact, I don't think Sans does, either. One hit would simply do massive damage, which would open up room for the kill.

Read the above posts.

 

[SomebodyData]

Probably. Like...if you hit Goku with an attack equal to or greater than his durability, it would do varying amounts of damage to him, the grand total of what he can withstand could be his "health".

Hmm that so? Homura should understandably have rather high health, but i think her sins might even that out

 

[Aurasuke]

Yes, because he can reset both lower and higher dimensional time?

Depends what you mean by higher dimension. She took Madoka's power who can affected higher dimensions (conceptual space outside of space time) by more than just reversing time she's kind of omnipresent within that higher space as well as the lower spaces so not quite sure how you'd take that)

So wait, now Sans is a higher dimensional being? There's a bunch of other factors to consider also. Homura's true body exists outside of time and space. The bodies she used in the end were simply avatars her true form is the one with the black wings. Even if speed was equalized, if she exists outside time, anything that happened within it doesn't really affect her. She could simply just snap her fingers for a victory.

Well the only ways to kill magical girls is to destroy their soul gem. Homura's was destroyed but she's still alive.

We're also assuming that Sins will affect Homura. If I remember she became the "concept of evil" which distrupts the laws of the divines and brings chaos ot the world.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Homura is beyond time. So is Asriel, not quite sure what you mean by reset time.
You are kind of assuming that Homura's health is the same as sans here, by simply one hit she's dead. If speed is equal what kind of hacks would Sans have that could lower said unknown level health bar?

Health bars are also a concept in games, in most anime/manga something like that doesn't exist. I'm not even sure you can apply this kind of direct logic here.

Yes, because he can reset both lower and higher dimensional time?
Nobody assumed Homura has 1 hp. In fact, I don't think Sans does, either. One hit would simply do massive damage, which would open up room for the kill.

Read the above posts.

I'd also like to ask how would Sans get that 1 hit. Which of his techniques specifically will he need to employ to allow that to happen?

 

[Aurasuke]

What would health count as for other ppl outside undertale? Like the amount of pain they can withstand?

Probably. Like...if you hit Goku with an attack equal to or greater than his durability, it would do varying amounts of damage to him, the grand total of what he can withstand could be his "health".

You see the problem is that one hit would damage homura at best if we go by this health thing. Let's say they both had 100 health and Sans could do 10 damage no matter what your durability is. Homura could do infinite damage while Sans could only do 10. Homura isn't the type to wince in pain either, as a magical girl, pain is always removed from battle. As a demon even pain became precious to her "she was reffering to her losing of madoka" but anyway, even if he has all the sin counters, there's no guarantee that Sans will end things with one hit that would be applying the verses of one verse into another which such rules don't exist, and if Homura strikes back in the next moment Sans will be warped.