Wait what? How is this match inconclusive?

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So wait, now Sans is a higher dimensional being? There's a bunch of other factors to consider also. Homura's true body exists outside of time and space. The bodies she used in the end were simply avatars her true form is the one with the black wings. Even if speed was equalized, if she exists outside time, anything that happened within it doesn't really affect her. She could simply just snap her fingers for a victory.

Well the only ways to kill magical girls is to destroy their soul gem. Homura's was destroyed but she's still alive.

We're also assuming that Sins will affect Homura. If I remember she became the "concept of evil" which distrupts the laws of the divines and brings chaos ot the world.

No. Sans' attacks can affect beings of slightly higher dimensional status than his own (if he has a way to hit them), but he is in no way a higher dimensional being.

Chara also exists outside time and space, though assuming this is to the first death and Homura can not just reset the timeline, being killed in her lower-d shadow would count as a loss.

Sans has affected conceptual beings before, as long as he has a way to actually hit them. In this case, since speed is equalized so he doesn't get ROFLmurked, he does. It's essentially the same as his Chara fight with a stronger, less restricted Chara who will take more damage but deal more damage.

 

[Aurasuke]

Yeah but even so Sans reality warping negate durability hax< Homura's level of reality warping.

If they both attacked simulatenously, Homura's level of reality warping would be greater she may even be able to override his powers. She did make herself into the concept of evil without much effort.

In any case, the only way I can see Sans even having a chance is that if Homura doesn't time stop or reality warp right away as Sans probably can't get close enough to hit Homura if time stop is right away and they were both let's say human level and 10 m away for argument sake.

Even if Sans has ways to slow Homura down for him to hit her, one attack from her and she is gone. Thats if they both attacked simulatenously.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

The problem here is, at least 90% of the time, Sans will be attacking first, as is his style. Part of his meta hax used in battle was the ability to not only automatically go first, but start the fight before his opponent did. Yeah, Homura just needs to dodge this to survive, but that's not going to happen all the time, and that opening attack is going to absolutely brutalize her. That's why this is inconclusive.

 

[Aurasuke]

^True but Homura always uses time stop in her normal form at the beggining of the battle as well. Sayaka even called it a bad habbit of hers. If we include time stop it's Homura's win easily. If we don't allow time stop then Sans may have a chance, but that's also only if Homura isn't allow to warp him out of existence by snapping her fingers.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

^True but Homura always uses time stop in her normal form at the beggining of the battle as well. Sayaka even called it a bad habbit of hers. If we include time stop it's Homura's win easily. If we don't allow time stop then Sans may have a chance, but that's also only if Homura isn't allow to warp him out of existence by snapping her fingers.

I don't think you understand. 90% of the time, she won't be able to use time stop first because Sans WILL go first. That's one of his meta abilities.

 

[Aurasuke]

Wait, don't tell me your arguging based on the fact he gets the first turn lol Can you even apply turn based combat to real combat?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, I mean as a canon meta ability, he attacks before the battle begins. He's ignoring the parameters of his reality. He fights dirty. Think of it like a MB skill.

 

[Aurasuke]

Okay even if we assume he attacks first, but can he kill in one hit though?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's gonna be way more than one hit on the first attack, but if Homura survives it, she can take him out. The reason it was inconclusive was due to equalized speed meaning it's unsure if Homura would be able to survive more times than not, as obviously she doesn't get stacking tries like Chara did.

 

[Aurasuke]

So if I'm getting this right, basically you're saying that assuming they were both human speed and 10m away when they start, as soon as Sans gets the first move, he'd rush in but Homura would not even react to something like this by using a time stop or reality warp and allow herself to be hit?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

He doesn't rush in. He never does that, as he'd be an idiot to do that with his defenses. He'll be a good ways away and considering how much faster Sans' attacks are than himself (specifically Gaster Blasters), Homura's best option is to dodge first before attempting to make attacks. Nobody said she'd allow herself to get hit.

 

[Aurasuke]

^ Yeh, but knowing Homura she would use time stop right away. Unless you're saying that she can't use time stop here.

Sans' attacks are than himself (specifically Gaster Blasters), Homura's best option is to dodge first before attempting to make attacks. Nobody said she'd allow herself to get hit.

^That's not really fair with speed equalized, it's like taking away Homura's Nigh-omniscient speed advantage but allowing Sans Gaster Blasters to travel at a much faster speed than he is. At the very least, their attack speeds should also be equalized , becauase with Nigh-omniscient reality warping should be beyond instant.

Kind of like saying having the Flash vs a storm trooper except both are at human speeds, then the blaster the storm trooper has the advantage wit his blaster. At the very least San's Gaster blaster should be the same speed as Homura's bullets.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Like I said, Sans will be going first. It's quite literally part of his meta reality breaking to "go first". I think it'd be much easier to dodge first as opposed to attempting to stop time while standing there in the face of a sucker punch.

Sans' Gaster Blasters are part of his arsenal, but they aren't Sans himself. Having them move at the same speed he does is would make the entire point of having them moot. They can still be aim-dodged by anyone of his level of speed or higher who pays close enough attention, which is why I said dodging the initial attacks is the best option.

Except Flash's whole deal is speed. Using Flash in a "speed equalized" example is a false equivalency.

 

[Aurasuke]

^

Not really, the whole point of flash even being able to hit Homura is because he has something that can move that quickly. It's like saying two people at human speeds, one of them can shine a laser pointer at the other while the other has to use melee.

Like I said, Sans will be going first. It's quite literally part of his meta reality breaking to "go first". I think it'd be much easier to dodge first as opposed to attempting to stop time while standing there in the face of a sucker punch.

What does meta reality even mean?

Also let's say that they were 10 m apart, Sans goes up to punch Homura, let's say both can travel at 2m/s. During the first 2 seconds he travels 4 meters. During the first 2 seconds, Homura stops time.

Saying that he can go first regardless of the circumstances or because he always goes first in the Video Game doesn't really make sense. In real time games, the characters don't wait for your turn. You can say it's his nature to attack suddenly or use surprise attacks, but you can't say that Homura does nothing while he's allowed to attack.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Except the laser pointer, while damaging, can only fire in one direction and can be aim-dodged by anyone who isn't stupid enough to just try and stand there to tank it.

Meta reality-breaking skills. Not meta reality. His reality-breaking skills are meta.

Sans wouldn't be up close, at all. I thought I already went over this?

See meta reality-breaking explanation, again.

 

[Aurasuke]

Not quite sure about you, but I can't really dodge light or lasers if someone points them at me. Nor can I dodge a bullet either. But if I could travel at light speed with lightspeed reactions then I probably could. It's a matter of realitivity.

What's the difference between metal Reality and Normal reality warping?

Okay but if Sans isn't close up, how would he win? Are you saying that he'll take less time fire his weapon than Homura to timestop even though reactions are equal as well as attack speed?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not quite sure about you, but I can't really dodge light or lasers if someone points them at me. Nor can I dodge a bullet either. But if I could travel at light speed with lightspeed reactions then I probably could. It's a matter of realitivity.
What's the difference between metal Reality and Normal reality warping?

Okay but if Sans isn't close up, how would he win? Are you saying that he'll take less time fire his weapon than Homura to timestop even though reactions are equal as well as attack speed?

No, I mean before it fires, the Gaster Blaster gets into position. Then, from the perspective of someone with Relativistic+ speed, it takes a moment before it fires. This allows you to aim dodge the beam it then fires, because you're reacting to the blaster itself.

Literally just the fact that the reasons for it are meta. I think I referenced MB as a comparison.

Because he can attack from a long range?

 

[Aurasuke]

Do all his attacks bypass durability?

The thing about Homura is that she isn't really to bad at dodging stuff her own speed or faster. See this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVi_fs2oz3E

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, to an extent.

I didn't say she was? I just said she'd need to dodge, which if she's good at it, is her best course of action, anyway.

 

[Aurasuke]

BTW did you see Madoka movie 3 Rebellion? TBH I think it's better than the original series in some ways.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Rebellion was really good, actually.

 

[Aurasuke]

Who do you think is the strongest person Sans can beat with speed equalized and his opponent having killed infinite people?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Who do you think is the strongest person Sans can beat with speed equalized and his opponent having killed infinite people?

With him being able to hit them, probably any High 2-A (and maybe Low 1-C) who (for some reason) doesn't have a way to just bring themselves back. Though that's not exactly common. There's a reason he eventually lost to Chara.

 

[Aurasuke]

How about someone like Lambdadelta? She's killed more people than one can count.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lambdadelta

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Lambda ROFLstomps, dude. Sans can't hit her through her lower dimensional pieces alone, and she can just hax him out of existence.

 

[Aurasuke]

What if Lambda just lets Sans hit her? Would he be able to damage her at all?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Absolutely nothing substantial, no.

 

[Aurasuke]

But he would be able to actually damage her even slightly though? Or is the difference just to great?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

About the same amount of damage you would take from pricking your finger, maybe.

 

[Aurasuke]

So at what level can Sans not even damage whatsoever if they just did nothing then? Do we need someone with tier 1-A or above?

How about beyonder or the living tribunal?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Probably a lot of things?

Assuming he could make said tier 1 notice the finger prick is being generous and tilting all possible odds in his favor.

 

[Aurasuke]

I was just wondering how much higher dimensions could he affect if his opponent literally gave him free hits though, and if they had an infinite kill count from infinite universes each with infinite dimensions.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Nothing above 5 is certain, and assuming it would work regardless on anything would be a NLF.

 

[Aurasuke]

Ahh, Gotcha. Though since Chara isn't actually a 5-D being, can we assume that it would work on a 5-D being for certain?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Considering he has power to affect things that reside on that plane of existence, it's more than likely.

 

[Aurasuke]

Wouldn't that be more like affecting 4-D though than 5-D? I understood that 4-D is affecting one space time continuum, but a line in the 5th dimension would be simply an infinite number of 4-D timelines.

I guess that means that Frisk is like 10^500 or so dots side by side, but since each dot doesn't really have size, it's not actually a line (kind of like how you can have dots in 2-D, of (0,1), (0,2), and (0,3). They are dots and values but there are an infinite number of numbers between let's say 2 and 3.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, I mean Sans can affect conceptual beings who transcend 4-D space-time, considering he has a way to hit them, that is.

 

[Aurasuke]

I see. But in almost all cases their HP is actually unknown, unless if they were immortal type 3 or maybe type 4 then maybe it'd be infinite. Is am I missing something?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, their "HP" is usually unknown, but unless very little is known about the character, it's not to hard to vaguely gauge how much punishment they can take from other things hitting them on their level.

 

[Aurasuke]

if we go by an RPG scale though, stronger monsters also have stronger HP. In some ways having Sans being able to negate durability matters very little if they have massive amounts of HP, or if they can regenerate a lot.

By on their level though is also kind of hard to measure because durability and HP are usually the same for most non-Hp based fictions (something that's not SAO for example).

Also someone like Majin buu would probably also be a terrible match for Sans due to his Regenerationn.

BTW does that mean that immortals have infinite HP then?