By "expanding", you mean the cloud? I didn't imply that.
Literally did but sure. What else would you mean by "the cloud is still dispersing offscreen"?
There's also a point where you need to have object permanence, in that when a thing is not visibly offscreen, you can't forget that it can exist, offscreen.
Yep, unfortunately that isn't an argument Bambu.
They say it's back to normal, they also actively try to convey as such with visuals. We know the finaltimeframe more or less, the only way this would work if there's a substantial timeskip, but we get to that later.
"Can" exist, and "does" exist, are not the same. We have no reason to assume it exists offscreen beyond using faulty logic, inconsistent onscreen visuals, and a whole other bunch of slop that gets immediately shot down.
This, would work, if it was consistent, in fact I even argued something similar for the Dark Star feat where we didn't have much of an established window and speeds only went one way, not all over. That isn't the case here though.
I'm not positing a position that says "Actually this only dispersed the cloud in the immediate area". Obviously the spirit of the thing is that it is being dispersed entirely. I contend the arbitrary timeframe used on it, though, because we can see how long it takes to disperse just that original area. We have no reason to make assumptions outside of that regarding its speed offscreen.
Doesn't matter if that isn't what you're positing if that's the end result.
Your contention with the timeframe is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
The original area clear has 3 to 4 seperate speeds, it isn't consistent within itself. The original area doesn't matter, when we're told the whole dimension is fine now.
Just use the displayed speed lol.
Varies exponentially. Inconsistent.
You want the displayed speed, we'd be using like 1800kms because that's the final displayed speed taken at face value. You see the issue yes? If we go with your premise, it only bloats it.
For the record. And I feel this is very important.
The Calc is calculating a cloud being gone over continents. A very very large area. I recognize it is hard to imagine that.
Stop the condescending remarks, that is beyond irrelevant, it could be smaller, bigger, how big it is doesn't matter, what matters is the timeframe for which it disperses.
And
this is the shot I'm meant to take as the dispersal being concluded over
continental landmasses? Because the process has finished over this one, very small, island? That doesn't make any sense.
Yes. Especially because they say as much five seconds later.
This is an argument from incredulity. Who gives a shit how big it is? Fact is, it's evidently supposed to be gone by then. They show us it parting, they show us completely clear skies, it is followed by a statement saying the whole dimension has been brought to peace, whole confirming it isn't just that area atm. It is worded present tense, not future tense, so it going back to normal, isn't an argument, that is objectively not what is said.
Despite your claims, there is no relevant timejump, that room is on the very island Wario fought the final boss on, they even drop into it. We know he's still on the island because that's where the beam originates from in the cutscene, and we know Wario has a straight shot to that room and would take him literally not even 10 seconds to get back there, which he would, because his ass straight up doesn't care about being there and wants his money pronto.
Whether or not it makes sense doesn't matter, it just is. Like that's what happened. What do you want me to say? That's the intent behind the scene, that's also what they say, so it took that amount of time.
That's how physics works. That isn't arbitrary. Wind resistance, gravity of the earth, etc- objects (even gases) tend to slow down, not speed up.
Wild then that it literally sped up then no? (These clips, idk why they ain't loading as such, click them idk).
Look, it's a mere, idk 100-200ms a second in this instance. Absolute crawl, would take hours.
Yet suddenly
Gets quicker and we can visibly see it move at a far quicker speed from below as it passes by them (Completely ignoring it randomly got to the island, even though at the speed it was 5 seconds ago, it'd have taken like tens of minutes or something, which needless to say, they weren't jumping up and down looking at the sky in the same position for that long).
Only to then instantly clear the horizon even a second after that from a even higher PoV.
Why did it get quicker at least twice, visually, after slowing down to a crawl? Could it be that it's just super inconsistent and the animators just weren't thinking nerds on the internet in idk 18 years(?) would try to dissect the cloud dispersal speed? Probably. Now I will say, that IS problematic, or at least it would be if we didn't have an approximate timeframe for the whole thing clearing out, that being 25 seconds, or if you really wanna lowball it, when she says their world is normal again (Don't think I need to say this, but the dark clouds were kind of one of their big problems).
Now you argue physics, sure, I get it, I get wanting to work with what see, but what we see doesn't align with your arguments or proposals. We have a workaround, you don't want to use it, or argue unfounded assumptions like cinematic cuts.
We have a basis by which we can make our judgements. The current one is arbitrary in that it does not align with that basis.
Hence the 25 seconds, 35 seconds if you want to stretch it to the statement.
Your basis mind you doesn't actually work with what we know, or even what we see (which isn't ideal given your argument hinges on visuals), but that's beside the point.
There's also the notion of cinematic time to crease over some of these bumps you're mentioning, a notion one feels we don't evoke as the creators of our given media.
Not an argument, you think Wario sat on his ass for half an hour? When he was literally there?
Prove there's a notable time jump. You made the claim, burden is on you.
I stand by just using the speed derived from the initial clearing period and then recognizing the actual value would be lower, but marking it any lower is arbitrary.
Except by your very own arguments that's objectively false. It actively speeds up, in fact it clears about 30km in one second.
The "initial" clearing is wrong. This simply isn't up for debate, we
know it changes speed after the initial burst, and it isn't
slower.
Not how this works, you need to prove there's cinematic timing at play.
We have ample reason to believe there isn't. assuming there's a cut also causes numerous contrivences like him just sitting there doing nothing for an unrealistic amount of time. You argue this because the initial speed wouldn't possibly clear the whole radius within the alleged time, which fair, but we know because we outright see the cloud's move at inconsistent speeds, even speed up twice after the fact, and the final velocity is also, ironically, the quickest as it cleared a high-end horizon in seconds, and as such we can't actually use this argument for cinematic timing because it's just strictly all over to begin with, and even then, the final speed would be negligible based off the visuas if that's the argument. Coupled with a statement saying it's normal anyway in what, at worst, straight up being ignorant, would maybe be a minute or three, they say whole place is cool again.
This doesn't work Bambu. You think they sat there for whatever relevant amount of time before saying a single word to each other?
No video game is going to make you sit through everything that happens in real time. It'd be like... you're playing a game, you get on an airplane, then suddenly you're on the other side of the world. It makes no sense to presume, then, that the airplane is actually Massively Hypersonic.
False equilavence. Wario is in the SAME place as the money bag and the chick, they're all on that island, in fact he has a straight shot to them. The only timegap, is the gap between the boss dying and that scene, aka, about 25 seconds, as in, the cloud dispersal scene. Which is also reasonable amount of time for him to get back there.
A better example would be how long would it take you to walk across your house? You start at the front door, a cutscene plays, and then it goes back to you opening the backdoor and beginning to talk to whoever is there. We'd just say to timegap between Point A and B is however long the cutscene is, hell we might not even do that if the cutscene is to long.
Your airplane example doesn't work here.
There's just time passing in greater quantities than what is shown.
You need to prove that, simply saying it means nothing when there's ample evidence to the contrary, while your basis for claiming that is based on a faulty inconsistent speed that varies multiple times within the very scene itself.
Furthermore, they are allowed to say things are back to normal, even if it is implied it's actually getting back to normal in the near, immediate future.
Back to normal for the whole world, and will be back to normal soon, are not the same.
20 minutes is an insanely short time!
It's actually unrealistically long given the character's locations. You talked about object permeance yes? Why should we ignore it in regards to the characters?
It's basically no time at all. This statement has no bearing on the displayed speed, the speed we can physically see, of the clouds.
20 minutes isn't short, even if we take the final speed we see, it'd happen well beyond that. The speed we physically see of the clouds, as stated like 10 times now, is inconsistent, I can frame by frame it for you if need be.
No time had passed, we have no reason to BELIEVE any time had passed. It's the same location, the boss fight even crosses into that very room.
The only time shown, is the cloud parting scene Point A and Point B, and that's also a completely reasonable amount of time for Wario to simply walk back into the room.
You'd have to make extra assumptions any relevant amount of time passed within the same cutscene in the same place, that or they sat there doing nothing despite the fact Wario could not give less of a shit about anyone and just wants his money bag.
The statement does have bearing. They say the whole dimension is cool again,
whole dimension, not some, not a bit, not going to, it just is. You're adding extra assumptions to arbitrarily extend the limit the scene takes place, and then arguing cinematic timeframe based off literally nothing, to argue the timeframe is actually longer than shown.
The actual argument is that you're wrong, plainly and simply.
Feeling's mutual.
Your argument is literally "use the objectively wrong initial speed" and "cinematic timeframe".
One is straight up incorrect onscreen.
And the other is headcanon, and wouldn't make sense anyway because that means it took Wario 20 minutes to walk into the room again. When he was literally already there.
It's taking 20 minutes. Or more, really, but I admit it's arbitrary to go lower, even though it would not be arbitrary to recognize that the value is certainly even lower.
I'd argue 1 minute is already an asinine assumption given Wario was already there.
What's arbitrary, is your arguments. You want to run with the objectively incorrect initial speed? You argue physics yet ignore the clouds literally parted about 2km in a second, then about 10 in ten seconds, and then like 60 in 2 seconds. Notice the problem there? There's no time skip, that's all in real time. We can literally hear the characters yap and cheer as it happens and switches without any cut off (Hard confirming there isn't any secret extra timeskip, otherwise the audio would jump as it's the lil ***** going yay!). Why'd it suddenly get like 30x quicker? After stopping almost even? That doesn't make much sense does it?
At worst you'd pick the last seen
(That one frame there at the end is intentional, it's the horizon view cleared).
Here, the clouds moving quite a bit slower compared to whatever, yet the immediate next frame is a clear sky.
Wild isn't? That doesn't make sense? Even the final frame you can see a bit of cloud in the corner, but, yet, we get a horizon shot from hundreds of meters high in the next frame that would make the horizon about 60km at minimum from the PoV? Without a timejump, given as mentioned, the merf's cheering isn't cut.
So, what's the speed? This whole clip? About 3 seconds? For 20kms at worst (60km horizon line, about 3 seconds)? The inbetween frame for 1800kms (60km, 1/30th of a second)?
Like what are you talking about? The speed isn't consistent all throughout, it changes, you'd have to arbitrarily pick one. You want to run with the initial one, yet the initial one isn't the final speed we see and thus not the speed we'd use for the exponential mass cleared after the initial area, based on your very own argument.
Worse case scenario is you'd calc the Pov distance between the up-angled shot, and then the wide view, get the speed from that, and maybe subtract the initial area? And I can assure you it's gonna be a hell of a lot quicker than what you're arguing.
As an aside, you're gonna have to prove cinematic timing, half your argument hinges on it, burden of proof is on you here. Quite frankly there's no reason to assume cinematic timing, and given you flatout said it's 100% taking 20 minutes, you best have good reason to explain why they'd just sit there for that long doing nothing.
Tldr.
1. Your argument hinges on the initial visual speed, this is visually shown to be contradicted, change multiple times, and even speed up. As such arguing based on it being consistent all throughout, doesn't work.
2. You argue cinematic timing despite no reason to assume as such beyond the already faulty point 1. With there being multiple reasons to assume it happening in real time, with it actively causing unrealistic assumptions should we assume as such. The burden of proof is on you here.
3. Twisting what is actually said, your argument hinges on the statement being future tense, even though it's stated in present tense. The words used state the whole of it, and in the present. Not will be in like a hour, or if we use the slowed down speed, like, a few days? Which should already tell give a big red flag back to point 1.
4. Even if we used visual speed, we'd use the last shown speed, not the initial, which is in and of itself contradictory to your argument as it's quicker by the end, not slower. And would be quicker then the final 1m and 25 seconds at face value (would clear it in a few seconds total), or based on the horizon line 3 second one, about like, 100-150 second time frame (aka, like, about between 1 and 3 minutes anyway).
You're wrong here, the only real compromise would be to use final displayed speed, which all things considered would just make it worse. And to also ignore blatant intent of the scene and the following statement, making extra assumptions as to what's being said based off an already contradictory point.
An easy way around the contradictory speeds and variances would be to just take the final timeframe, that being 25, like 35 if ya really wanna stretch it, seconds, as we can all but directly conclude that the storm is gone within that timeframe. This avoids using blatantly wrong speeds like your proposition, inflated speeds like 1800kms, and doesn't change the fact that by the end it's gone because they say it do so like, it's AT LEAST that
and also basic media literacy, like it's pretty obvious what the intent is idk why we gotta jump through hoops. Otherwise, we would be using the final displayed speed over the initial speed because that's the final speed we seen, we'd have to assume it changed again, changed to the initial speed at that, all while ignoring it already covered exponentially more area in the final instance so assuming it slowed down just off screen is an even extra assumption. In no world would we ever do that.
Anyway I really, really, do not feel like dying on this hill
i would rather waste my free time translating zelda and jojo yap, not **** with wario, so like, idk, I'd much rather have 3rd party CGM's weigh in, preferably those who even know wtf we're talking about. If need be I'll reply back in like idk, whenever, after I'm done tossing ch21 and Farore's Wind in shit if need be.
).
