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VSBW Profile Standards (Staff Only)
- Thread starter Sera_EX
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It is surprisingly easy to fit things into the tiering system, even if they randomly toss around omnipotence. We have a page for God-Ma. Even though I really don't want to, I'm sure I could find a comprehensible way to make profiles for the characters.
Parahumans (Verse) is an indie web novel. Paranatural is an indie webcomic. Basically look down the internet category if you want examples https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Internet
Parahumans (Verse) is an indie web novel. Paranatural is an indie webcomic. Basically look down the internet category if you want examples https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Internet
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Having read parts of some chapters, they randomly go from lightspeed, to MFTL+, to infinite speed, to immeasurable, to irrelevant, one after the other. The actual cosmology doesn't seem too impossible to rate tho, but it'd be a huge headache for sure.
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Yes, and we can easily disregard stuff like that. We already don't take "omnipotence" statements seriously, why can't we just disregard "greater than omnipotence" statements too? Again, I've seen passages from it and I think you could derive an actual profile from them regardless. I've heard from others that it tops out at 1-B.
But this isn't about me wanting to make profiles, it's that "it's incoherent" is a bad argument. There's some verses that are really obtuse and hard to get into, that's why we make cosmology blogs to simplify and explain things.
Also I'd appreciate input on the examples I gave.
But this isn't about me wanting to make profiles, it's that "it's incoherent" is a bad argument. There's some verses that are really obtuse and hard to get into, that's why we make cosmology blogs to simplify and explain things.
Also I'd appreciate input on the examples I gave.
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Are you sure about that? Because if it comes down to it, they'll just have to be delete. Though I'm sure they're not like...literally unprotected. If they're hosted on a free hosting site we have a problem, but if it's like an indie game of the PSN store, it should be fine.
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Since they're a novel/comic respectively, I don't think they'll have anything like that. This is why I think that's an unsatisfactory solution to the problem
Also I think SCP gets hit by this too which sucks.
Also I think SCP gets hit by this too which sucks.
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Ok look man. OCs= unpublished work so basically no licensing. I can create an OC but still dont have license to publish it in public. But yall going wild fr
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Just want to say that if we really do accept this for some reason we would be deleting 1000+ profiles, I sincerely wish I were exaggerating this
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Notoriety and copyright are two very different things. Something can be copyrighted and be known by like 2 people, and something not copyrighted can be known by a lot of people.
Hell, one of our most popular verses is public domain.
I dont think there can be a very clear and defined line seperating what is OC and what is official. The best I think we can do is if we allow verses spawning from thier own original franchise with a sizeable following. Parody characters and original characters created by anyone other than the creator (or creator entity) should be a no no, unless actually endorsed by them.
Just also want to point out that Dragon Ball GT exists.
Hell, one of our most popular verses is public domain.
I dont think there can be a very clear and defined line seperating what is OC and what is official. The best I think we can do is if we allow verses spawning from thier own original franchise with a sizeable following. Parody characters and original characters created by anyone other than the creator (or creator entity) should be a no no, unless actually endorsed by them.
Just also want to point out that Dragon Ball GT exists.
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Aight if it's not universal then we just have to specify where we apply it. But even if we just apply it to YouTube/Newgrounds it doesn't solve advertisement/toy characters and it deletes dozens of profiles that are near-universally accepted/enjoyed.
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Don't have time to debate this as extensively as I debated on the previous thread, so tossing my hat in for Sera's arguments here.
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You do know that she's arguing for Web comics like paranatural and the like to be deleted right dargoo...?
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I agree with Sir Ovens.
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?????Sera EX said:
I pointed out that it would end up deleting webcomics, you said "They'll just have to be deleted", and later "It's not meant to be universal", I asked you to clarify on what it would apply to if it's not universal but you never did. Are you planning on expanding on this later?
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Would the gamer and God of Highschool be affected as well?
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Yeah I'm against this "get rid of non-liscended stuff" argument. If something has it's own set canon, story, and characters that aren't fan fiction it should be allowed. Doesn't matter if it's a Hollywood Blockbuster, Japanese Webnovel, or Internet Stick Fighting animation.
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Sera: We should allow characters from copyrighted works that have copyright protections extending beyond the most basic 'if it's your idea you own it' copyright.
Me: I think that would remove unlicensed works like webcomics
Sera: Give me examples
Me: Gives examples
Sera: Are those actually uncopyrighted?
Me: They only have the minimal copyright protections, which you said isn't enough
Sera: If that's true they'll have to be deleted, but I doubt it is, maybe they're on an indie game store.
How is me interpreting this as "delete works that don't have strong copyright protections" unfair? I don't see how you've been mischaracterized here. If the word 'license' is bad, that's because I can't think of any other word that more closely aligns with your "more copyright protections than the standard" suggestion.
EDIT: But Sera has clarified to me that she's not pushing this argument any more, and will present a different one later. The thread shouldn't get bogged down in bashing the idea of removing all unlicensed profiles.
Me: I think that would remove unlicensed works like webcomics
Sera: Give me examples
Me: Gives examples
Sera: Are those actually uncopyrighted?
Me: They only have the minimal copyright protections, which you said isn't enough
Sera: If that's true they'll have to be deleted, but I doubt it is, maybe they're on an indie game store.
How is me interpreting this as "delete works that don't have strong copyright protections" unfair? I don't see how you've been mischaracterized here. If the word 'license' is bad, that's because I can't think of any other word that more closely aligns with your "more copyright protections than the standard" suggestion.
EDIT: But Sera has clarified to me that she's not pushing this argument any more, and will present a different one later. The thread shouldn't get bogged down in bashing the idea of removing all unlicensed profiles.
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I'll save a bit of time and repost what I said in the Newgrounds profiles thread just a moment ago, since it actually does appear to be something that can be applied to this topic in general:
"I think this should be treated as a case-by-case sort of thing.
Madness Combat, for example, has a somewhat clearly-defined canon and story (albeit one that gets absolutely ridiculous at times and wasn't exactly present in the first game), and is mostly confined to one creator from what I can remember. It's not exactly written as well as some of the other verses we have on here, but that's no reason to dismiss it.
On the other hand, works like Pico's School and its many, many, many follow-ups have no properly linear story, thousands of wildly different incarnations across several random creators (especially so once "Pico Day" became a thing), and almost no canon to speak of outside of the original Pico's School flash game. Most of the characters die multiple times across the different works they appear in with no explanation for why they're alive in later games and animations, and scaling them would be an absolute nightmare. Those kinds of characters and works should be excluded entirely.
Crossovers like Newgrounds Rumble should also be disregarded."
If a work from YouTube, Newgrounds, et cetera has a coherent story/cast of characters and establishes its canon well enough, it should be fine for us to use and index. However, if a work is impossible to manage due to linear story being relatively nonexistent, multiple conflicting incarnations of the characters existing with no indication of which ones are more canon than the next (See: Everyone from Pico's School), and/or having a general lack of regard for maintaining consistency, then we should ignore it entirely. Characters from advertisements almost always fall into the latter category, so take that however you want.
Things like high sexual content and works having their own version of Jesus are another matter entirely, though...
"I think this should be treated as a case-by-case sort of thing.
Madness Combat, for example, has a somewhat clearly-defined canon and story (albeit one that gets absolutely ridiculous at times and wasn't exactly present in the first game), and is mostly confined to one creator from what I can remember. It's not exactly written as well as some of the other verses we have on here, but that's no reason to dismiss it.
On the other hand, works like Pico's School and its many, many, many follow-ups have no properly linear story, thousands of wildly different incarnations across several random creators (especially so once "Pico Day" became a thing), and almost no canon to speak of outside of the original Pico's School flash game. Most of the characters die multiple times across the different works they appear in with no explanation for why they're alive in later games and animations, and scaling them would be an absolute nightmare. Those kinds of characters and works should be excluded entirely.
Crossovers like Newgrounds Rumble should also be disregarded."
If a work from YouTube, Newgrounds, et cetera has a coherent story/cast of characters and establishes its canon well enough, it should be fine for us to use and index. However, if a work is impossible to manage due to linear story being relatively nonexistent, multiple conflicting incarnations of the characters existing with no indication of which ones are more canon than the next (See: Everyone from Pico's School), and/or having a general lack of regard for maintaining consistency, then we should ignore it entirely. Characters from advertisements almost always fall into the latter category, so take that however you want.
Things like high sexual content and works having their own version of Jesus are another matter entirely, though...
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I think Mr King is making sense.
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I also think that MrKing seems to make sense so far.
Anyway, I also think that we should keep this thread staff only and highlight it. Agnaa is honorary staff, so he can continue to comment though.
In addition, somebody should preferably copy the texts that describe our full current rules regarding this, so we get a better perspective regarding what we may need to change in them.
Anyway, I also think that we should keep this thread staff only and highlight it. Agnaa is honorary staff, so he can continue to comment though.
In addition, somebody should preferably copy the texts that describe our full current rules regarding this, so we get a better perspective regarding what we may need to change in them.
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I think that they are listed here: Editing Rules
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- Thread starter
- #75
The previous discussions have been made irrelevant based on the argument still being "if it has a story, it's permissible". The exception is the mature verse rating stuff and that's a separate issue entirely from this ongoing debacle.
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Okay. Would somebody be willing to copy-paste all of the relevant Editing Rules here, so our staff members get a good overview at least?
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At any rate, I've had my nap and I'm now capable of reaffirming a stance in my more coherent manner.
@Andy
Really? And Newgrounds wouldn't be considered that? What's on there is primarily FC/OC level content. It's not official works after all.
Copyright + canon + notability/popularity most certainly works. The reason it's criticzed is because it would remove certain verses which honestly is one of those "deal with it" things Cal mentioned on Discord.
You're basically saying that if an "OC" verse from FC/OC was put on Newgrounds it all of a sudden becomes permissible. Do you see the issue here yet?
That goes against the very logic of "platform shouldn't matter" most supporters of those verses use. So that also doesn't work.
@Andy
Really? And Newgrounds wouldn't be considered that? What's on there is primarily FC/OC level content. It's not official works after all.
Copyright + canon + notability/popularity most certainly works. The reason it's criticzed is because it would remove certain verses which honestly is one of those "deal with it" things Cal mentioned on Discord.
You're basically saying that if an "OC" verse from FC/OC was put on Newgrounds it all of a sudden becomes permissible. Do you see the issue here yet?
That goes against the very logic of "platform shouldn't matter" most supporters of those verses use. So that also doesn't work.
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I suppose that Sera seems to make sense, but we still need practical organisation regarding this. That means displaying our current rules, criticising specific parts of them, and suggesting replacements.
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Quality also works. "It's subjective" is not an argument. There are objective standards of quality in this world. Thinking "everything is subjective" is '''not''' a refined opinion or even a standard. It's intellectually dishonest.
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