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VSBW Profile Standards (Staff Only)

@Sera

Thank you.

I have highlighted this thread.
 
That seems like a bad idea. This thread is about wiki policy revisions, and has been highlighted, which would result in too much chaos if we opened it up to everybody.
 
@Goji

Ant believes it's best to keep it staff only, but if you have something you want to say you can tell me and I'll drop it here.
 
Now, given that I've simply reread the above editing rules I think they're written very well and get the point across nicely. What's left is differentiating between an "official character" and an "original character". Because that debate didn't go well...
 
I have mixed feelings regarding which fictional Verses should be allowed on the site.

To give an example, Dragon Ball Multiverse is a fan-made sequel webcomic that features its own original story, and several original characters alongside the characters from the original Dragon Ball manga.

It's not an "official" Dragon Ball story, but it is a piece of fiction in its own right not much more different than Red vs. Blue which was made by fans of Halo and features several location names / concepts from the original Halo series.

I can understand why DBM is disallowed as it sets a precedent that could allow a lot of other verses on the site - but perhaps that could simply be solved just by having a team of staff who can vet whether certain "unoriginal" pieces of fiction are allowed to be on the wiki.
 
The difference between Red vs Blue and DBM is that RvB is a full-fledged animated series now which is released on Netflix and available on DVD/blu-ray (and the makers of the Halo Games - Microsoft Game Studios, Bungie, 343 Industries - actually give RvB their full backing and blessings).
 
Obscurity is only an issue when hardly anyone knows the verse, there's no way to fact check the statistics, and this continues for a prolonged period of time.
 
>I dont think there can be a very clear and defined line seperating what is OC and what is official. The best I think we can do is if we allow verses spawning from thier own original franchise with a sizeable following. Parody characters and original characters created by anyone other than the creator (or creator entity) should be a no no, unless actually endorsed by them.

I think what sir ovens said in this part makes sense at least to me
 
I've lost all interest at this point. I don't even know what's the point of this thread anymore. If our rules are fine and Newgrounds is okay, that's fine.
 
Just a heads up, the Eddsworld profiles have been around for years despite originating on Newgrounds. And there's also the fact that the creator died much like Monty did. Obviously stuff like SMBZ is reserved for FC/OC wiki.
 
@Sera

Well, the previous threads never finished, so I would appreciate if we could try to reach conclusions here.
 
I think the difference comes from whether the fictioal work is origial or somewhat related to the origial author. For example, [[Dragon Ball GT]], which is a non-canon sequel that was officially published by Toei to end up getting nuked from the canon like 18 years later by KtK and FnF.

We accept it because it's part of its own continuity despite being a subset of another fictioal work with its own canon, and because it was and it currently is related to the franchise in a closer way that a fanfic story couldn't be unless the author says so.

I agree that we need to work a bit harder to define what is a suitable fictioal work for the site, but I'm not sure how much can I help with this since I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject to actually bring some decisive points.
 
How can we reach a conclusion when no ones agrees on anything and people keep using strawmans which eventually derail the original point? Keep in mind that a majority of this discussion was also on Discord between staff and was a complete mess that didn't go anywhere. Imagine my shock.

Bambu and I have talked over Discord and tried to offer some form of solution. Case-by-case is no different than having no standards at all, we may as well not even have most of the editing rules listed above if we're doing that.

With Assalt and Kep MIA, Matt being on "cruise control", Azzy being away for personal reasons, and Ultima being busy with other stuff, we don't even have the opinions of some of our most critically minded staff. I'm practically going to be alone against an army if I went all out on this, Dargoo is too busy and Cal hasn't responded for some reason.
 
Sera makes good points; there have been far too many conflicting staff opinions as of late. There definitely needs to be standards and we obviously do. But it is often difficult to grasp given the all over the place details. And the strawmans do need to stop and some people need to learn what people actually say rather assume self fulfilling prophecies. And I too miss the inactive Admins as well as the old selves of some of them as well.
 
By the by, GojiBoyForever asked me to drop in his thoughts:

"Tbh I think our rules may need to become more strict since people seem to be either confused on the rules or try bend them to make profiles unacceptable for this wiki. You would think this could be solved by using a little common sense but apparently not."
 
Well, I agree with you about that we need concrete strict standards, and not a constant case-by-case basis, as well as that our more critically minded staff members are largely missing in action, which isn't good at all for important maintenance threads.

For what it is worth, I am willing to try to back you up, but as you know I am constantly overworked and distracted, so I may not be of much help.
 
I agree with King. I think the platform the fiction is hosted on doesn't matters s much as whatever set of merits we deem necessary for profiling. (Of course, I have some unpopular opinions such as deleting episodic cartoon characters because there's no real continuity so make of this what you will.) School just started up again so idk how much I can really devote to this
 
There is no definitive rule we can make that separates OCs and """""""Official Characters""""""" without axing a good dozen verses.

That does beg the question of what determines an OC under our current rules beyond popularity and personal opinion.

Fanfictions can have more continuity than many of our most popular verses (looking at you, Marvel/DC). Original fiction and OCs can follow a continuous plot, look at Parahumans (Verse), which is literally a draft for an unpublished book going off of Wildbow's commentary. We don't, as much as we'd like to believe, draw the line at continuity. So, what do we draw the line at? What's the difference?

I have a fairly simple answer. We don't have a line at all. There is no difference, just what, in the moment, the person making the profiles believes.
 
@Dargoo

So, what's the solution here?
 
My suggestion is that we simply draw a line roughly where we are now, and treat unlicensed/music/advertisement verses with harsher standards, those of requiring "continuity"/"canon".
 
Agnaa said:
harsher standards, those of requiring "continuity"/"canon".
Click to expand...
All our verses are required to meet those standards. They aren't 'harsher' than what we normally employ.
 
I've had people raise issues that verses like Looney Tunes don't really have continuity.

From playing the games I also know that Rhythm Heave barely has any continuity, and is a series of rhythm-based minigames.

If either of these things were youtube skits instead of a cartoon/videogame respectively they wouldn't be allowed, and I'm sorta fine with that.
 
I mean, yeah, if either of those verses don't have a continuity they shouldn't be here.

It's more that those verses warrant discussion of their own, as opposed to much of the YT debate being an issue with large groups of profiles and verses.
 
Well I'm not interested in deleting them, I think we can have different standards for different mediums/platforms.
 
I personally don't get it.

If we have problems with a story lacking continuity, it shouldn't matter what platform it's made on, as the problem is with the lack of continuity in the story, not the kind of paper the story is written on.
 
I agree continuity shouldn't be the only factor, but I wouldn't downplay the importance of it.

What's the point of making a profile for a character whose abilities, powers, strength, personality, statistics don't have any obligation or necessity to be consistent? For a verse who has no comprehensible story to put forward? How can we define feats when we can't define a canon?
 
A lot of cartoons are more like a giant collection of short stories rather than a big story; but they still have a universe with numerous feats. Just because it has a loose canon doesn't mean it doesn't have a continuity.
 
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