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VSBW Profile Standards (Staff Only)

My bad, I misunderstood. I just can't really tell what you mean by "amateur vs professional" without seeing examples.

I assumed the hosting on YouTube was an unofficial reupload.

Re: Newgrounds verses, they're allowed here because no-one has taken issue with them before you, and I don't understand your stance on disallowing them enough to agree.
 
My bad, I misunderstood. I just can't really tell what you mean by "amateur vs professional" without seeing examples.

For example, I'm an amateur film maker. I've only made student films while in grad school and wrote a few scripts that never went anywhere. Meanwhile George Lucas produced several films and is critically acclaimed.

The internet is home to mediocrity (and thus is the perfect place for growth). You wouldn't see these flash animations on television for example. If I uploaded my student films somewhere, that doesn't mean someone should try to make files of them here.

Professionally made Internet based verses are those such as Adventure Quest because that evolved into a franchise with multiple games. It's still niche, so that isn't the problem, but it's in the realm of professional content. That's different than some random flash animation with eight episodes on Newgrounds.

What's next? Stick Page profiles? That's no different than Newgrounds.

When I said "medium doesn't matter" I was talking about for professional/notable works of fiction and not amateur content.

Hence:

Re: Newgrounds verses, they're allowed here because no-one has taken issue with them before you, and I don't understand your stance on disallowing them enough to agree.

If this is true, if that's really how the rest of the staff feel, then we really don't have a line drawn between original and official, or even fanfiction for that matter. We can quite literally, by no exaggeration or strawman, accept fanfiction at this rate. Nothing's stopping Anime War profiles except "we don't allow fanfiction because...we just don't". After all, as I've mentioned before, the reason was apparently because "fanfiction messes with the canon", which honestly no longer applies since we have Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles now.
 
I would devise some rules here just for example's sake, but unfortunately I can't really get a thorough and complete grasp of this thread, even with seemingly most of the people here agreeing. It's kind of sensory overload.
 
I agree with Sera about that we need firm standards between professional and amateur works.
 
@Crabwhale

Some drafts for regulations would be useful, yes.
 
It's mesmerizing how simply wanting to feature professional, notable, and at least somewhat popular verses on our site is such a controversial issue worth this much discussion. I understand we're growing but we are growing in the wrong direction at this point.
 
Yes, we need to maintain proper standards.
 
Alright, let's actually propose some changes. New parts are bolded.


  • The VS Battles Wiki is, first and foremost, a fictional character indexing site. All featured characters in our profiles should originate from actual stories, from notable or popular works. A story includes a plot, a fictional setting, and having a defined canon. At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.
    • Do not add Original Characters to the site (those created by users of the site themselves or for the purpose of VS Debating), as they should be hosted on our sister site,' the FC/OC wiki. Fan-works of existing characters/verses are to also be added there.
    • Do not add characters that originate from advertisements, or from works that prominently feature characters that originate from advertisements such as video games. The same is to be said of memes, YouTube personalities, reality television, talk shows, music videos, stage personas, actors playing themselves, and the like. If you wish to create such profiles, feel free to do so in the Joke Battles wiki instead. Take note that there is obviously a difference between a profile written as a joke, and the character itself being automatically funny.
 
So what's the reason fan fiction isn't allowed? I mean defining our standards apparently means nothing if we can't give a "reason" for it. Common sense apparently isn't a rebuttal either. So if there's been a line drawn as Agnaa suggested, please tell where this line is. I can't find it. Every attempt at drawing said line has been rejected as well.
 
@Sera

I don't see why we can't say something isn't allowed because it's commonly agreed that we don't want it, although the existence of FC/OC gives precedence for saying that "we have another site for fanfiction, so we don't host it here" in the same way memes don't belong here because JokesBattles exists.

Quality control is also another big reason.
 
I don't see why we can't say something isn't allowed because it's commonly agreed that we don't want it

Then, why can't we do the same for amateur works? Because it isn't commonly agreed on? Why should we feature them?
 
Okay, before this boils over into another argument, I'm just going to resolve the problem by fixing the rule up a bit.

  • Do not add Original Characters to the site (those created by users of the site themselves or for the purpose of VS Debating), as they should be hosted on our sister site,' the FC/OC wiki. Similarly, fan-works of existing characters/verses are to also be added there, as they are essentially original stories/characters themselves simply using a pre-existing universe as a basis, and thus non-official.
 
as they are essentially original stories/characters themselves simply using a pre-existing universe as a basis, and thus non-official.

So are non-canon stories.
 
It's not like I'm in any physical condition to be arguing extensively about anything. I preferably need to stay away from controversial topics for the time being anyway.

If the majority feel as if amateur works are acceptable, for now, I can't argue against it, though I'm strongly against it. We may as well just continue with just rewording the standards as previously agreed upon and spare each other another argument.
 
Sera EX said:
as they are essentially original stories/characters themselves simply using a pre-existing universe as a basis, and thus non-official.

So are non-canon stories.
Click to expand...
Wrong.

Something like Joji Joestar may be not canon but it's still officially endorsed by Araki.

Dragon Ball GT is certainly not canon and it had Akira Toriyama on the design team, at least for some of the early character and environment appearances.
 
Oh, that's what you meant by "non-official". I'm sorry, I was confused.
 
If my suggestion can be interpreted wrongly, we can always change that.
 
I think that "amateur film maker vs George Lucas" is such a huge distinction that it's not helpful in seeing what you mean by amateur vs professional. But what do we look at to distinguish between amateur indie and professional indie? Is it quality, notability, number of people working on it, etc?
 
Doesn't matter, I've dropped that for health reasons.
 
I agree with Sera about that we should not allow completely unprofessional works.
 
Amateur =/= Indie anyway. Indie is short for independent. Indie games are just those that were made by independent creators. There's still indie games on the Playstation Store for example, so that's "professional indie". "Unprofessional indie" is your online flash game created using the most minimal resources possible (i.e. Flash) and are, you gussed it, found only on the internet.

There are exceptions such as the games made by Artix Entertainment (originally made in Flash) and MS Paint Adventures as those became notable works. Same goes for Tsukihime. Tsukihime was created in 2000 when TypeMoon was still just a doujin group, but it eventually became a commercial success through its manga/anime adaptations and the critically acclaimed Melty Blood game. It's not unprofessional or amateur any more, it's now a professional, notable work of fiction.
 
That's why I distinguished between amateur indie and professional indie, and asked what we'd look at to distinguish the two.

I can't really toss out counterexamples without understanding the criteria. Well I could, but I'd need to list out 2 dozen examples to try to figure out the criteria first.
 
So should we try to get our standards in order here?
 
Probably what Sera said, but I am not sure.
 
I think amateur characters with some sort of stable continuity should be allowed. I don't see the point in axing all these profiles. However, amateur works with no continuity are impossible to tier.
 
BigSmoke4269 said:
What conclusions have we come to?
Click to expand...
Writing rule changes on the points I outlined above. That's all that needs to be done. Everything else has been discussed to death already.
 
@Agnaa

Are you willing to write up drafts for modifications of our current rules based on that post?
 
Sorry, but I'm far too busy with other life obligations that I'm still trying to catch up with to write new rules.
 
Okay. That is too bad.

Is somebody else willing and able to handle it?
 
This needs to be finished.

I'd offer up drafts myself but I am busy enough as it is.
 
If necessary, somebody can create a restart thread with a summary in the beginning as well.
 
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