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Versus Thread Removal Requests (New forum)

Recon1511 said:
Mob vs Tatsumaki has to be removed from both profiles as Mob LS was downgraded to Class T and Tatsumaki not only has been upgraded to Class E in LS but has received several minor additions to her P&A page.

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Removed.

Cropfist said:
Xenomorph vs Terminator glossed heavily over Terminator's acid resistance, and acid was the reason Xenomorph won, the only counter being a vague "acid overcomes resistance" comment with no proof.
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I assume they ment this on it's profile...

Acid Manipulation (Xenomorphs have acid stronger than there previous forms and any on Earth. Their acid can break molecular bonds[10] with ease. A Xenomorphs Acid can last long enough to eat through a bridge support cable[11] and should be superior to a facehuggers blood of which can eat through the hull of a ship[3])

It's suppose to be better than the previous forms, I assume that's why they said it could bypass the basic level of resistance?
 
It wouldn't really change the new result even if she didn't have Immortality Type 2, since she'd just be coming back again and again. On top of this Garou doesn't even have a 5-C key anymore so yeah definitely outdated.

Edit: I forgot to add something to her base key that would stop even that from happening.
 
Last edited:
Chiming in here as the RVR is not the correct place: I am currently opposed to the removal of the Yang vs Kirito match up. I don't think the arguments for Kirito were as bad as some are making it out to be, and while those arguments may have been responded to (I am careful not to use the word 'counter' here as that implies one argument is better than the other), it's of course not the case that you can only validly agree with the most recent advocate in a thread.

I felt there was a clear and coherent logic to advocating that Kirito would win, and of course also that Yang would win, which to me is exactly what the voting process is for, so I am against it's removal.
 
Due to the absence of any staff members during the removal, it is imperative to conduct an evaluation before proceeding with any action.
 
The removal was reversed as it was not clear that any such agreement from a member of staff was used as a basis. It has now been clarified that Mori did in fact support it, but I disagree with the removal, so it's not that simple. As for the users agreeing with it, all of the users that voiced support for the removal were users who voted for Yang in the versus match up. As far as I am concerned it means very little that 3 members of the losing vote came here to demand the removal, to me that just reads like sour grapes.

You mention an admin agreement, I assume you mean Mori? She is a thread moderator.
 
This is really not my point. The user admitted to removing it without any presence of any staff members required.
And please don't twist my words; I specifically said “during removal”, Mori's input is after the removal.

Thanks for your understanding.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This is really not my point. The user admitted to removing it without any presence of any staff members required
And please don't twist my words; I specifically said “during removal”, Mori's input is after the removal.

Thanks for your understanding.
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Eh. I'm not going to argue over it.
The proof's in the pudding, right in her posts on the RVR.
With that said I'll be leaving.
 
Mori's like back then doesn't really constitute support for the removal. Now she has openly said she is in favor of it, but Deagon is opposed- there's not a consensus. More folks need to weigh in. Not me though.
 
For people who are not aware of RvR report, here is Mori's response regarding the removal:
First off, I know about both SAO and RWBY, and I have no particular like for each of them. I have not been involved in either of the verses much at all, and I was not on the original thread. I am as close to a knowledgeable, but unbiased party as you can get.

I agree with Weekly and I agreed with Weekly. My like on his comment was, indeed, indicative of my support, and I had vocalized as much on Discord beforehand. Weekly had no ill will in moving forward with the removal, and I do stand by his decision even now.

The arguments for Kirito were, to be frank, lazy at best. I don't particularly care who wins, I just saw a critical lack of actual evidence backing Kirito's position, and just a vague, sweeping wave that some amount of "skill" could overturn Yang's many other advantages. No real proof or elaboration, just a few comments followed by a bunch of FRA.

If people care that much about the thread, they can debate it again and bring proper scans, alongside more in-depth arguments as to why Kirito's skill feats both surpass Yang's skill feats, and why that gap is large enough to surpass Yang's other advantages.

In other words, remove the thread, it was pretty damn bad.

Edit: Also, yes, I know Kirito has other stuff in his arsenal, but those were relatively minor points in the debate. If people think they are massive, more reason to try again.
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Deagonx said:
Chiming in here as the RVR is not the correct place: I am currently opposed to the removal of the Yang vs Kirito match up. I don't think the arguments for Kirito were as bad as some are making it out to be, and while those arguments may have been responded to (I am careful not to use the word 'counter' here as that implies one argument is better than the other), it's of course not the case that you can only validly agree with the most recent advocate in a thread.

I felt there was a clear and coherent logic to advocating that Kirito would win, and of course also that Yang would win, which to me is exactly what the voting process is for, so I am against it's removal.
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Can you point out what exactly you thought the clear and coherent logic to advocating that Kirito would win was? Because every argument for him was thuroughly countered by at least five people throughout that thread

Even DMUA, who is knowledgeable on SAO, disagreed with the logic in that thread
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Because every argument for him was thuroughly countered by at least five people throughout that thread
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My concern is not with whether or not the arguments were responded to, it is whether the argument was made.

I'm not here to act as the arbiter of which argument through the various back and forths was best, nor am I taking sides on which result was most accurate. The point that I am making is simple: The Kirito side did make an argument based on abilities and possible paths to victory that they thought were most plausible, and the vote fell in his favor.

Your various arguments to the contrary simply didn't convince enough people. I see no reason to consider the vote invalid. I was told the argument for Kirito was "he wins with skill" and little more, but that's just plainly not true looking at the thread.

Frankly, it doesn't appear to me that there was any basis for you seeking the removal aside from your personal disagreement, and the two users who voiced their support were part of the thread and voted for Yang.

This just reads like sour grapes. I am not in support of the removal.
 
Deagonx said:
My concern is not with whether or not the arguments were responded to, it is whether the argument was made.

I'm not here to act as the arbiter of which argument through the various back and forths was best, nor am I taking sides on which result was most accurate. The point that I am making is simple: The Kirito side did make an argument based on abilities and possible paths to victory that they thought were most plausible, and the vote fell in his favor.
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As i said, all of those arguments were thoroughly countered by multiple people. They should not have qualified for being FRAed in the first place.
Deagonx said:
Your various arguments to the contrary simply didn't convince enough people. I see no reason to consider the vote invalid. I was told the argument for Kirito was "he wins with skill" and little more, but that's just plainly not true looking at the thread.

Frankly, it doesn't appear to me that there was any basis for you seeking the removal aside from your personal disagreement, and the two users who voiced their support were part of the thread and voted for Yang.

This just reads like sour grapes. I am not in support of the removal.
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Deagon, i want you to go through that thread and find the argument you are referring to. Post it here please.

I dont know why youre claiming that this is a removal based solely on bias when multiple people who are knowledgeable on SAO have directly told you that the arguments were bad and the outcome was wrong
 
WeeklyBattles said:
As i said, all of those arguments were thoroughly countered by multiple people. They should not have qualified for being FRAed in the first place
Click to expand...
Not how that works. You are not the arbiter of truth, you are just a guy with an opinion. Your opinion that your counter-arguments were sufficient isn't mandatory.

WeeklyBattles said:
Deagon, i want you to go through that thread and find the argument you are referring to. Post it here please
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I won't, because I am certain it would immediately be met with you explaining why you disagree, but your personal disagreement will be framed as an objective fact.

From there, I suspect, you will ask me to counter your arguments, the implication being that I need to personally convince you that your arguments are wrong, otherwise you will conclude that the arguments were invalid and thus the removal should be enacted.

I'll be clear, I'm entirely uninterested in playing that game. That was never the point. My position is simple, the arguments were made and they went well beyond "Kirito wins with skill." The advocates got pretty specific with and how and why the fight would go in his favor. My position isn't that their arguments were better than yours. My position is that you disagreeing doesn't make the votes invalid.
 
Deagon, you went on record to tell me that you did not believe that match being inaccurate or poorly argued was grounds for it to be removed. You quite literally do not know what this thread is for. It has been explained and argued to you. SAO supporters have even said as much on Discord.

I'll be blunt: your post is just objectively wrong. I don't know what to tell you, it just is. I truly have the impression that you fully lack an understanding of the basic standards used to remove a thread. You even vocally said you support doing a rematch, which further baffles me as that's exactly the point here.

I don't know what to tell you, and I don't feel like arguing with you more after spending an hour banging my head against a wall. A thread being badly argued is grounds for the thread being removed. DMUA, a very knowledgeable SAO person, even said the skill argument was rather poor.

You have already said you support a rematch. That is the natural conclusion of this thread being removed. Weekly, go ahead and remove the match, then remake the thread and ping DMUA to it. If Yang loses that time, oh well.

Deagon, I highly advise you learn what this thread is actually for before making comments about it. You have point-blank told me that you run by logic and standards that are objectively just not what this wiki uses, and refused to listen to me telling you otherwise. Stop derailing.
 
Moritzva said:
Weekly, go ahead and remove the match
Click to expand...
Mori, despite your insistence that I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm objectively incorrect, it is still the case that I disagree with you and you cannot override my position on this so casually. I am not in favor of removing the thread or invalidating the vote, so if we are to remove the match up or recreate it we will need further staff input.
 
I don't intend to read the thread to see which side I agree with, given both verses are what they are and I'm at work, but DMUA does not necessarily represent infallible truth for SAO. If Deagon disagrees, Deagon disagrees. I don't see how you would take that as "Deagon doesn't even know what this wiki management thread is for" and I think that comment is in pretty poor taste.
 
Deagonx said:
Mori, despite your insistence that I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm objectively incorrect, it is still the case that I disagree with you and you cannot override my position on this so casually. I am not in favor of removing the thread or invalidating the vote, so if we are to remove the match up or recreate it we will need further staff input.
Click to expand...
If you fundamentally insist that this thread is something that it isn't, then yes, I will override you. You, yourself, told me that arguments being poor, badly explained, or unsubstantiated by evidence are not reasons to remove a thread. You are wrong. I am not going to debate this with you because I already spent an hour explaining it to you.
 
Moritzva said:
I am not going to debate this with you because I already spent an hour explaining it to you.
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That's fine, you aren't required to debate with me. But I do have a voice here, and my position is that it should not be removed. If that is to be overriden, it will require more staff input.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I don't intend to read the thread to see which side I agree with, given both verses are what they are and I'm at work, but DMUA does not necessarily represent infallible truth for SAO. If Deagon disagrees, Deagon disagrees. I don't see how you would take that as "Deagon doesn't even know what this wiki management thread is for" and I think that comment is in pretty poor taste.
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It was not that post specifically, but him telling me that poor, badly explained, unsubstantiated/proofless arguments are not a reason to remove a thread, and implying it should only be done because of profile revisions, is a clear-cut misunderstanding of the thread. My original comment may not have been clear enough on this, so I am explaining this now.
 
Deagonx said:
That's fine, you aren't required to debate with me. But I do have a voice here, and my position is that it should not be removed. If that is to be overriden, it will require more staff input.
Click to expand...
If your reasoning is based on fundamentally not knowing how this thread works—a fact you are not even debating—then it will be overriden.
 
Deagonx said:
That's fine, you aren't required to debate with me. But I do have a voice here, and my position is that it should not be removed. If that is to be overriden, it will require more staff input.
Click to expand...
Alright so thats one against removal, six people including one admin in support of removal
 
Deagonx said:
The Kirito side did make an argument based on abilities and possible paths to victory
Click to expand...
If the argument itself doesn't hold, than it doesn't really matter. Versus Thread Rules is very explicit about needing good arguments rather than arguments that people just agree with

Kirito does not have feats of skill that allow him to overcome a high AP advantage and his battle healing is less effective against stronger opponents, plainly. If the argument is that he overcomes AP with skill and battle healing despite this fact, the argument is just poor.
 
DMUA said:
If the argument itself doesn't hold, than it doesn't really matter. Versus Thread Rules is very explicit about needing good arguments rather than arguments that people just agree with

Kirito does not have feats of skill that allow him to overcome a high AP advantage and his battle healing is less effective against stronger opponents, plainly. If the argument is that he overcomes AP with skill and battle healing despite this fact, the argument is just poor.
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Exactly this. Deagon, you are literally just wrong. I cannot put it in any better words.

Please do not comment on threads without actually knowing the standards by which they run. I expect better from a discussion mod.
 
Moritzva said:
It was not that post specifically, but him telling me that poor, badly explained, unsubstantiated/proofless arguments are not a reason to remove a thread, and implying it should only be done because of profile revisions, is a clear-cut misunderstanding of the thread. My original comment may not have been clear enough on this, so I am explaining this now.
Click to expand...
I get the notion that I shall be dragged screaming to the thread to form an opinion. Dreadful.
 
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