Versus Thread Removal Requests 13

[Sptflcrw]

By the time he notices, Goku will ahve already punched him to death.

With speed equalized? No he won't.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

You're acting like he will switch to those weapons after one shot.

 

[Schnee_One]

May I ask how this guy will know where and when to time travel?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@DragonEmperor23, Goku has BFR on his profile that is not seperated by keys.

That's because nothing on Toei Goku's powers and abilities section is separated by keys.

 

[AKM sama]

With speed equalized? No he won't.

One shockwave of his kick, punch or ki blast can obliterate a large range of area (as shown in his fight against Jiren), and due to his ultra instinct he'd have a slight speed advantage anyway.

And the argument about Player having so many hax is the only reason the fight isn't a stomp. It's just that the Player doesn't lead with those and Goku dodges almost anything and by the time he realizes which weapon would be ideal for Goku, he'd be dead already.

 

[Schnee_One]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1590696?useskin=oasis

This thread missed a detail

I'm not sure if this was around when this thread was made but Gargos doesn't lead with BFR in this key, in this key he leads with planetary mindhax which Hibiki lacks resistance too.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am not the expert in any of these verse but your reasoning seems far, @Schnee One.

Futhermore, it looks like the match is outdated since it closed in May 21, 2018 where in this time frame Gargos gained many new abilties that could change the battle. For Hibiki Tachibana's profiles additions, I don't think the changes were as major. In any case, if I am fine if someone removed the match.

 

[Schnee_One]

Thank you.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Does anyone disagree with the Mario match being removed?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Does anyone disagree with the Mario match being removed?

I certainly don't disagree. That match needs to go. I apologize for the small essay I'm about to leave here, but I can't stay silent on this matter anymore.

That entire match boils down to Goku trying to beat up a guy who can counter everything he does and respond in kind with moves that will instantly end the fight. To put this in perspective:

1. Goku's only wincons in the match are beat Mario down or supposedly BFR. We'll get into the first one a little later but, suffice to say, neither one is valid. Goku can't BFR because the version that is being used for the match doesn't have Instant Transmission. Yes, profile's P & A list doesn't have things seperated into keys but that's not an argument as anyone who knows about Dragon Ball is aware that Goku doesn't have access to it at this point in his career.

2. Mario has a bunch of hax and other abilities that allow him to win the fight basically in an instant and defend himself from everything Goku can throw at him. He has Death Manip, Attack Reflection, Possession, Mind Manip, Time Manip, Resurrection, Rege, Transmutation, BFR, Healing, Invulnerability, Damage Nullification, Status Effect Inducement, Stats Amps and Stats Reduction. Goku doesn't have an answer to any of this. Anyone of the offensive stuff will take him out immediately, he can't bypass the defensive options, and everything else would just tip things in Mario's favor even if he couldn't end the match instantly with his hax and has ways to just endure all of Goku's assualt.

Bottomline, Goku can do nothing and viable no way to win. This isn't a match, it's examination on how many ways that Mario would completely own Goku. To quote:

However, Mario doesn't need to negate the damage anyways, because Goku will need a lot of hits (even in Kaio Ken), giving Mario multiple opportunities to use any of his dozens of hax that can give him the win.

That quote is from the OP of the match.
Please, someone, tell me how is this fair? How is this matchup that should go onto their profiles when it's really just "Mario can just hax Goku to death but it's not a stomp!"

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm surprised the match was added in the first place.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Basically, Mario becomes haxed only when he stomps

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Mario doesn't instant hax from the start, so unless Goku literally can't win, it's not a stomp.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

How come whenever Mario's in a fight where he loses, everybody says he doesn't use his hax, but everybody calls him too haxed when he wins?

 

[Overlord775]

Mario doesn't instant hax from the start, so unless Goku literally can't win, it's not a stomp.

Goku cannot bypass his ressurection tho

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

I'm pretty sure he can only resurrect once and Goku can still KO him or BFR him without killing Mario.

 

[Overlord775]

Having KO as an in option when the opponent can easilly hax you to death is not enought to to make a math not a stomp

and BRF is not an option as Goku doesn't have Instant Trasmission in the key used in the match

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm pretty sure he can only resurrect once and Goku can still KO him or BFR him without killing Mario.

1-Up Gloves : Automatically uses a 1-Up Mushroom if one of the bros gets KO'd.

I am not sure if Mario can only resurrect once, though if based one 1-Up Mushroom. I do known Mario tend to start with 5 lives in many games so it he likely should have 4 mushrooms in his standard equipment.

 

[Overlord775]

Mario would have the max number of One-Up Mushrooms you can stack in the game i think

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Goku's abilities aren't separated in keys. Make a CRT.

 

[Elizhaa]

Goku's abilities aren't separated in keys. Make a CRT.

True.

To be honest, I believe Goku only used BFR like as a last resort especially against Cell, near the end of the Android Saga. It is not something Goku does in character quickly since he love to fight fairly.

 

[Overlord775]

Goku's abilities aren't separated in keys. Make a CRT.

You must have not seen the anime at all to be making that statement Goku's key used in the match is Frieza Saga Goku

Goku only learns the Instant Trasmission from the aliens he met after defeating Frieza

 

[Schnee_One]

You must have not seen the anime at all to be making that statement Goku's key used in the match is Frieza Saga Goku

Goku only learns the Instant Trasmission from the aliens he met after defeating Frieza

Which means nothing.

Make a CRT whether its obvious or not, not everyone has seen DBZ.

 

[AKM sama]

That's still an invalid point though. Doesn't make it right.

 

[Schnee_One]

Who are you talking too?

 

[AKM sama]

I'm talking to you, Andy.

Obviously a CRT is needed to arrange Goku's abilities in order. But that doesn't excuse the point which is blatantly wrong in the vs match. Freeza saga Goku doesn't know BFR.

 

[Schnee_One]

I never said it did tho.

Not once

Regardless, that's for a CRT

 

[AKM sama]

Oh I thought you were trying to say the point is valid until it's reflected in the profile.

Got the wrong vibe there, my mistake.

 

[Schnee_One]

Its fine

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Mario doesn't instant hax from the start, so unless Goku literally can't win, it's not a stomp.

Unless you're saying that Goku can kill Mario several times without Mario trying anything, I'm not sure what you think Goku's win con is.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We don't even remove matches like Rohan's, where the winning character just haxes from the start (at least not yet). Unless we changes our standards, it should stay.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But by our standards, those matches are stomps unless the other character also has a thought based wincon.


https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Stomp_Thread

"A Stomp thread is when one character is immediately able to win against another, whether it is via battlefield removal, incapacitation or killing, with the opponent having no chance to retort with their own abilities or statistics."

I already used one of the other examples on the stomp page to explain why Goku vs Mario is a stomp by our standards.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

If Goku has even one wincon, no matter how unlikely it is, it's not a stomp.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

If Goku has even one wincon, no matter how unlikely it is, it's not a stomp.

That's not what the stomp page says. Again, this is a direct quote from the page on what defines a stomp.

"Superman (Red Son) versus Doctor Doom with speed equalization. Both may have the same statistics, but their abilities make it one-sided towards Doom."

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

Doctor Doom uses all of his hax, while Mario doesn't. Mario usually starts fights with physical force. Even you say Mario starts off by throwing Cappy, it's an easy thing to dodge.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think the match concesus for removal is valid. Goku doesn't know BFR until the Android Saga. I can removed the match if there is no opposition.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Instantly win with no chance of retort"

Which is not the case. Again, while Mario might have a lot of hax, he's not gonna be spamming them to hell and back immediately. While the hax and Mario's resurrection makes it unlikely for Goku to win, it doesn't make it impossible

 

[Overlord775]

Goku would have to kill Mario 99 times before getting killed himself

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

First of all, KOing someone is a thing. Second of all, we don't judge how many times Mario can resurrect through the maximum amount of 1-Ups you can get in the platformers.

 

[Overlord775]

@Unoriginal

1.KO isn't a valid reason when the opponent vastly outhaxes

2. it comes from a RPG spin-off, so the cap on the number of 1-Ups he has is either 99 or 999