Verses with high sexual content (STAFF ONLY)

[Promestein]

See here; should Corruption of Champions, a ****-centric game, be allowed to have pages on the wiki? Is it any different from Monster Girl Quest!, a **** game which is on the wiki? Should either be allowed? Where should the line be drawn, and how should this be judged?

All the points already made can be seen on that thread, and I'm sure the majority of the people who can comment on this one know how the debate's gone so far. There's no need to completely reiterate your arguments and keep on debating when everyone initially involved has made their opinions clear.

• This is on the Staff Discussion Board, and is thus Staff Only. If you are not staff and have something new to add, ask for permission before posting. If all you have to offer is agreement with another user, just give kudos.
  • It's best to not clog this up too much at all, so that goes for staff too, so long as you have nothing new to offer.
• Given that the topic got pretty heated, stay civil. No name-calling, personal attacks, or starting petty fights.
• There's no need to post NSFW screenshots - anything that is shared, for whatever reason (such as to support a point), should be censored, even if it's hosted off-site. It's best not to take chances with Fandom on that.

• Eroge already on the wiki, such as Fate or Tsukihime, are irrelevant to this discussion and are completely different than either CoC or MGQ, in which sexual content is part of the gameplay and plot.

 

[Kepekley23]

On the topic of Corruption of Champions specifically, here are a few screenshots from the very first acts of the game to enlighten outsiders:

Edit: The image links have been removed, as I don't want to provoke the Fandom staff.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Kep, would you do us all a favor and be so kind as to find some screenshots from MGQ to compare?

 

[Kepekley23]

As I said, I was specifically talking about CoC with that post with no intention of comparing it to other sex-based verses.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is going to be the same thread all over again, isn't it?

CoC can't be allowed. I vehemently refuse accepting it under any circumstances. That was already established on the Message Wall thread and I find it painful that it has to continue here.

MGQ is very different in several ways and it was already accepted on past threads and confidently defended I feel.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As I said, I was specifically talking about CoC with that post with no intention of comparing it to other sex-based verses.

That seems a little biased dont you think?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As I said, I was specifically talking about CoC with that post with no intention of comparing it to other sex-based verses.

I too would like this to be discussed solely on its own merits rather than people having to use other series as shields.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

As I've said:

CoC: Excuse for ****. There is plot yes, but it's usually just a way to introduce new scenes or stuff related to said scene.

MGQ: Features large amount of story and yes, many h-scenes, but they are rare enough compared to the verse's actual story and lore.

The line for me is the duality between mainly story with **** vs **** with story in-between, and CoC fits definitively in the former.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As I said, I was specifically talking about CoC with that post with no intention of comparing it to other sex-based verses.

That seems a little biased dont you think?

No, it's not. It's giving it fair treatment. The truth of the matter is that Corruption of Champions is a **** Game that is entirely about sex, with any story or lore it may posess being merely a backdrop excuse for sex. The whole game is built around sex and centered on it.

Your main and only defense for it being allowed throughout the past thread was "But MGQ is allowed" which fails to acknowlege the differences between both series, acknowledge that one series has undeniably more plot and less emphasis on sex, particularly over time, and that there's more than enough precedent to allow it. Besides the thread that got it approved on the wiki.

There is no purpose in bringing it up here other than to use it to hide the big ugly elephant in the room.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I too would like this to be discussed solely on its own merits rather than people having to use other series as shields.

How are we supposed to judge what is okay and what is not if we have nothing to compare and contrast?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also if you wanna talk screenshots, here is a blog full of screenshots of the game. But that's not exactly the point anyway.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm neutral on the matter. As long as the NSFW content of the game remains off the profiles, I'm good.

 

[Promestein]

Hey guys!

"There's no need to completely reiterate your arguments." If you're going to do so, keep it brief, and if any of you regress back into being petty children I'm gonna be pretty angry.

Matt, you can't just reject any other conclusions anyone else came to just because you and some others don't agree. Past threads are also completely irrelevant. If you're going to make a case for MGQ, it can't be "well, it was accepted before". It was also rejected before.

This is a new thread. I could not care less about how the last one went.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Prom would it be okay to show what the profiles would look like if they were allowed here? Should i post my prototype?

 

[Promestein]

Yes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Well but pointing to past threads can be very good to make points clear specially if I feel I got an idea across well enough there. The only other option is to just repeat my arguments beat for beat.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Here is one example

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3157082

This is the main thread people need to check. In it this was agreed upon as an Editing Rule:

"Preferably avoid adding character profiles that may be inappropriate or perceived to be in poor taste. This may include characters, weapons, etcetera, that are ill-suited for a statistics-indexing wiki, due to having no reliable feats, or ones from media which may be too controversial or otherwise unnecessary to be featured. This includes pages that would strictly be written as a joke, and as such more suitably belong in the Joke Battles wiki. Although pages for mature verses like Berserk and Demonbane are allowed, they must have coherent stories that are not strictly focused on sex, and the pages have to be kept clean, without erotic images."
Bolded and underlined for emphasis. Corruption of Champions is a serious entirely structured around sex, advertised solely as sex, with a bare minimum plot that exists only to justify pornography around it. It has no business whatsoever being here. As you can see in screenshots from Kep and from people that can admit to having played it, it's just ****. Defending it as anything but is rather ludicrous.

Meanwhile MGQ, while a series that does indeed have a lot of explicit sexual content, is a legitimate fantasy RPG with its own world, gameplay, and a story complex enough to stand on its own. Most of the sex in the game is entirely optional, particularly in the sequel series Paradox which actually distanced MGQ from it's porny roots.

Have no doubt. If all there was to MGQ was Chapter 1 of the original Game, I would 100% be against its inclusion in the wiki. But as it stands, with the whole original series completed and 2/3rds of Paradox released? It can perfectly stand on its own grounds.

At the way MGQ is now, it's less a **** Game and more an Indie Fantasy RPG Series that happens to have a lot of sex on top. It's more concerned with talking about parallel universes and branching timelines and cosmic conflicts than it is about doing the nasty.

 

[Promestein]

It's a different thread, is the thing. This isn't about just MGQ. It's also about CoC, and more broadly, other verses with high sexual content that aren't yet on the wiki. We need to decide on where to draw the line.

Also, any arguments revolving around "but this is gross and/or morally bad" aren't worth much. There's plenty of morally reprehensible verses on this wiki already.

This is a question of the sexual content, its place in the relevant story / game, any effects these things may potentially have on the wiki, and, again, where to draw the line when it comes to the first two things.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, if the question is Sexual Content...

Masou Gakuen Hybrid x Heart has a profile here. It also has An All-Ages FANDOM Wiki.

Hybrid X Heart, for the uninitiated, is a Action Harem Light Novel series centered around a protagonist whose primary ability centers around having sex with girls to enhance his and their power level through the act itself. Literally, the more girls the MC ***** the bigger his and their power levels are. And if they engage in orgies the benefits will be exponentially greater.

The sexual content is rampant and explicit in the Light Novels themselves. Though, when compared to the amount of volumes and the text in said volumes it admittedly makes up a small percentage of the text, and I do think that there seems to be more of a plot to that series than CoC of all things. It definitely has an actual story with heroes and villains and character development, thought the quality of it is debatable at best. But this is not a matter of quality. It's a matter of legitimacy.

The fact of the matter is that Hybrid X Heart, for its absurd premise and high-octane sexual content in every volume, isn't ****. It's not classified as **** nor is it sold as ****. At best is counts as Fiction with Erotic Elements. And it is accepted to have its own FANDOM wiki where all the sexual content is described in far more detail than I'm giving here.

Monster Girl Quest also has its own FANDOM Wiki, albeit an Age Restricted one for safety measures. But this is because they actually go in-depth into the many many sexual elements of the series that can be found in it. Meanwhile our profiles for it are 100% clean. MGQ is an actual series with plot, characters, gameplay, a kickass soundtrack, and other elements. It has a real fandom that is interested in it for reasons beyond the ****. In fact, in any discussion of the series that I see anywhere (Amidst people who actually played it), the sex tends to be the last thing that's brought up, if at all.

But do you know what doesn't have a FANDOM Wiki, even an age-restricted one, what doesn't have an actual fandom that cares for the world or characters or plot of the series? Corruption of Champions, which is literally nothing but **** all the way through. It has nothing that makes it elegible for even considering into the wiki. Any plot it may have is just an excuse. It has plot in the same way that the average superhero **** parody has a plot. Just an excuse for people to bang eventually, and sooner than later.

The whole game is designed around having sex and there's no penalty for your character losing fights and getting raped over and over. The very concept of the game is conveyed in the title, namely that it is about sexual Corruption, primarily of the player character (The Champion) as they fight against monsters, creatures, etc.

TL;DR. Monster Girl Quest is Plot with **** on the side. Corruption of Champions is **** with "Plot" blanketing it.

 

[Elizhaa]

It's a different thread, is the thing. This isn't about just MGQ. It's also about CoC, and more broadly, other verses with high sexual content that aren't yet on the wiki. We need to decide on where to draw the line.
Also, any arguments revolving around "but this is gross and/or morally bad" aren't worth much. There's plenty of morally reprehensible verses on this wiki already.

This is a question of the sexual content, its place in the relevant story / game, any effects these things may potentially have on the wiki, and, again, where to draw the line when it comes to the first two things.

I am neutral.

But, assuming this point is true: Also, any arguments revolving around "but this is gross and/or morally bad" aren't worth much.

I think we can draw the line as long the profiles are clean of NFSW and the story is coherent enough to have proper statistics then the profile can be allowed. In this sense, I am proposing all or nothing.

In this sense, I think we won't have bias based on subjectivity.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean uh yeah.

**** with plot vs plot with **** is the issue. It doesn't matter how "disgusting" the content is. It doesn't matter if one person subjectively dislikes it.

Doing it this way avoids us banning eroge that only contains some h-scenes, yet avoid outright **** with only a very simple plot for context.

And considering CoC, like I keep saying, it definitively falls on the "**** with plot" end of the spectrum.

And if we're being real, even as a fan, I can say that MGQ contains stuff that's too ****** up for CoC in certain parts so it's not like that part works anyway.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Saikou The Lewd King, yeah, it is pretty much my view. I think this was supposed to be the current standard.

Honestly, I was disgusted with a lot mature anyways like Berserk anyway from extreme scenes but I am fine with them existing if they follows our rules.

So subjectivity asides, I am fine with the CoC verse being accepted.

 

[Wokistan]

Berserk isnt a good comparison to either case here. The story has rape but it's not really meant to be sexually gratifying.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sure but not everything in MGQ is either. There's a lot of H.R. Giger-tier disgusting eldritch abominations that are most definitely not meant to be sexy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'd rather not get too much into this for personal/spiritual reasons. But I will say I think Matt makes sense here regarding the guidelines. Obviously I would never allow characters from Custer's Revenge or Corpse F***ing Art; those are obviously nothing but ****. Simply having adult content in the verse doesn't invalidate it from being allowed here so as long is the profiles are clean. But as Prom said, we're discussing verses that have yet to have profiles here.

 

[Elizhaa]

Berserk isnt a good comparison to either case here. The story has rape but it's not really meant to be sexually gratifying.

I know; my point was meant on the subjectivity.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Or they're meant to be sexy for a very, very weird subset of people. But I digress.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dark I would recommend taking a look at the link i provided for what the profiles would look like. It is clean i assure you.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Here is my stance on it: Personally I would be more happy if we just took the **** content and push it somewhere else. (Say, to another wiki)

Fact is that as community and especially as staff having these content means one has to get familiar with it to evaluate CRT's on it or otherwise debate it (and as most of us are somewhat competitive about the characters we do like there is incentive to debating them).

I can see very well why one would neither want to do that nor want to be associated with it in certain cases. (And having quotes shown doesn't always suffice either...)


That being said, I don't mind that much either. If we allow **** than I don't see the point in distinguishing things that are more or less ****.

In this case I would suggest giving all these pages an 18+ **** disclaimer, as well as a category just for them so that we can panic button nuke them should they ever become a problem.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Weeky: Goblin profile is clean

Also Weekly: C h a m p i o n o f I n g r a m p r o f i l e

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also Weekly: C h a m p i o n o f I n g r a m p r o f i l e

Ngl i made the Champion's profile as a joke one night but i agree that its current state is completely unacceptable and needs to be heavily revised

 

[Elizhaa]

@DontTalkDT, noted; the disclaimer already exist in the Site Disclaimer that was accepted from a discssion from another thread. I am okay if additions are made though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Weekly, the profile draft looks alright from a glance.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I still maintain my position that CoC is unnaceptable for the wiki. For reasons the likes of myself and Kep have already stated.

 

[Kepekley23]

I do dig the suggestion of making a category for MGQ and the likes. If they ever become a wiki-wide problem we can nuke them rather quickly.

That said, I still agree that CoC is very unacceptable. I have been sinking a few hours into the game out of morbid curiosity. So far, it's been nothing but shameless and graphic smut with very sparse semblances of an actual plot. The very few enemies that did not immediately jump at you with the pure prospect of sex could be forcibly raped by the player character.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I can agree with Kep's assessement of the game, given my own playthroughs of it.

Other than punching goblins and imps for hours there is not much more than lewd in there.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Speaking of which, having profiles who originate from super pornographic verses that have no images might encourage kids to google them anyway. So it does sound like a really bad idea to allow CoC. But at the very least, if where going to have such a profile; there should be some kind of warning that the character originates from an adults only verse.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Oh, and another thing, though it should go without saying: If we make **** verses we should probably take care that they, as a whole, are properly legal in most countries. Japan takes some particular liberties and with it works originating from there.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright, I'll issue an opinion. Just to start off, I've played very little of MGQ, though I've heard quite a bit about it, and know nothing of CoC outside of this thread and Zach on Discord, in which I asked about it out of morbid curiosity and instantly regretted it when he sent me something without my consent. Though from what I can see, MGQ is definitely far less of a **** thingy than CoC. For the argument to take hold, let's pretend sequels don't exist. There's no CoC2, there's no Paradox. Taking them by their base games, MGQ is Undertale but replace the 4th wall breaking with...something else. From what I've seen, my theory is that the plot synopsis is intentionally misleading. If the appeal of the game was solely about a certain word that begins with r, why would it delve into things like racism and corrupted deities? The plot seems to be very prevalent past the initial chapter, as iirc I got past there. All the monsters there run off of Gerudo logic and have a reason to be doing what they're doing, much to Ilias's chagrin. Luka is an actual character, and unlike Champion, his genitalia isn't described in detail upon his introduction. On the other hand, apparently, one of the first options to do in CoC is to well...um...