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Fan art for characters with no official appearance

Antvasima

Antvasima

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Hello.

I have been told that our rules currently do not sufficiently well define that fan art, whether drawn or A.I-generated, that depicts book characters with no officially displayed appearance, i.e. that is based on guesswork, should not be used.

I think that we talked about this in an earlier staff thread, but it seems like our rules did not end up sufficiently well-defined in this regard.

Help with correcting this problem would be very appreciated. 🙏
 
Are these meant to be our rules?

I recall a vaguely similar discussion regarding one of our Esoterica verses that ruled against using images unrelated to the actual character (so, for example, an image of George Washington for a character that appeared in someone's mind's eye as George Washington, or something to that effect).

Is it your intent with such a rewording to ban, for example, Lord of the Rings pages whose characters never appear in film and yet bear very real descriptions from less-used sources (Tolkien's letters, the Silmarillion, and so on)? Just as an example.
 
So you want to expand upon these rules?
  • Official art should be used whenever possible, as it is a more accurate representation of the characters or subjects depicted.
  • Fan art may be used as an alternative to official art if the official art is of poor quality or does not adequately represent the characters or subjects depicted.
  • If fanart is used, insert a text into the image's description page (not the caption section) that gives credit to the artist, and if you can, also provide a link to their website or profile on DeviantArt, Tumblr, etcetera.

So we add an additional bullet point under the second one that says something like:

  • Fan art should not be used if the character has no official artwork at all and is based on speculation as to what they look like such as characters who originate from books with purely text-based descriptions of their appearance.

I'm actually not entirely sure about this. The characters from the Worm / Parahumans webnovel for example don't have any art drawn by the author except for a handful of sketches IIRC. All of the profiles for that verse currently use fanart (properly credited).

Unless you mean that fanart that is based on character descriptions is fine and only fanart that is based on characters with no descriptions at all shouldn't be used.
 
If a character has no description or is not supposed to be perceptible (say, abstract cosmic character that only appears as random swirl of colours) then I can see to ban fanart.
But if the character has a proper description and the fanart matches that, I would say it's better than not using it.
 
Last edited:
Damage3245 said:
So we add an additional bullet point under the second one that says something like:
  • Fan art should not be used if the character has no official artwork at all and is based on speculation as to what they look like such as characters who originate from books with purely text-based descriptions of their appearance.
Click to expand...
That is roughly what I had in mind, yes. I am concerned about that we will mislead our visitors into thinking that undisplayed characters look a specific way that was never an author's intention and was not approved by them.

However, it seems like the rest of you consider this to be a bad idea so far.
 
I think if the character has an actual in depth description that the fan art follows is fine but if it's vague, I'd say it's not usable.

For example, if the book gave us the characters physical appearance that can be visualized then it should be fine so long as the fan art follows that description and doesn't deviate. However, if it just said "he's a tall man with long hair", that's not enough because you don't know how tall, the hair length, if he's fat or muscular and the absence of other features and so on, then it's a problem.

But so long as the art is spot on to the description I think it's fine. But I think we can add a not to the character's verse page that use them and say "note: the characters in this verse have no official artwork, however the images used for them are credited fan art that depicts the characters accurately from their canon description." Or something like that?
 
I most definitely agree fan art could be used for various novel characters who have no official appearance. Primarily the Inheritance Cycle as the fan art was something approved by the main author.
 
I do not at all mind officially approved fan art. However, it is nearly impossible for us to verify that unapproved fan art reflects the intended looks of book characters without any illustrations.
 
I would also appreciate further help here. 🙏
 
Damage3245 said:
So we add an additional bullet point under the second one that says something like:

  • Fan art should not be used if the character has no official artwork at all and is based on speculation as to what they look like such as characters who originate from books with purely text-based descriptions of their appearance.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
That is roughly what I had in mind, yes. I am concerned about that we will mislead our visitors into thinking that undisplayed characters look a specific way that was never an author's intention and was not approved by them.

However, it seems like the rest of you consider this to be a bad idea so far.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
I do not at all mind officially approved fan art. However, it is nearly impossible for us to verify that unapproved fan art reflects the intended looks of book characters without any illustrations.
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Damage3245 @DontTalkDT @LordGriffin1000
 
Antvasima said:
I do not at all mind officially approved fan art. However, it is nearly impossible for us to verify that unapproved fan art reflects the intended looks of book characters without any illustrations.
Click to expand...
I understand your point, it's unofficial and without any full illustration, it's not really proper. My thoughts are just that if the are reflects the accurate description of a book character with no illustration, it should be fine to use so long as it has enough detail. For example, if the book only said the character was a tall red head male, that is in no way enough information and unless the creator gave the image their approval, it should not be used because their is so much detail missing. However, if the book character had no official artwork but gave a detailed description of the character in the book, skin/eye/hair color, height, weight, build and clothing, I'd believe so long as the fan are accurately represents those details, it should be fine (just put a note that explains that it's fanart but uses detailed/accurate description of the character given from the source material. This way, our members and others that view the profile can get an accurate depiction of the character in question but also know that it's still fanart from a verse that doesn't have official artwork.
 
Hmm. I unfortunately seem to be outvoted here.

Is it fine if we at least set up some kind of guidelines regarding that the fan art needs to reflect how the characters have been described to look within their respective stories?
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. I unfortunately seem to be outvoted here.

Is it fine if we at least set up some kind of guidelines regarding that the fan art needs to reflect how the characters have been described to look within their respective stories?
Click to expand...
Muchacho_mrm said:
IMO, novel characters lacking official art can be depicted through fanart based on accurate character descriptions.

Setting a guideline on what those descriptions are is fine with me.
Click to expand...
@Mr._Bambu @DontTalkDT @Damage3245 @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @IdiosyncraticLawyer
 
Thank you for your support. 🙏
 
What sort of guidelines did you have in mind? As I said, my only real contention is that if art is meant to depict the character, it can probably be used- excluding parody art, but I imagine that goes without saying. If you have something more thought out for this that can exist without being exclusive, I'd be fine with it.
 
Going from Damage's suggestion maybe something like this:

"Official art should always be the first choice for representing characters or subjects, while Fan art can serve as a suitable alternative to official art in instances where the mentioned is of inferior quality or fails to capture the essence or details of the characters or subjects effectively; It should not be used for characters or subjects that lack any form of official artwork and whose appearance is solely based on speculations as to what they may look like."

But if the character has descriptions of hair (shape, form, color, etc.), eyes, nose, mouth, scars, clothing, facial expressions, or any specific physical or characteristic traits then it's possible to have a Fan art be used since it's grounded on something (a source material) and not just pure speculations. Well, this is my opinion as novels, and books based characters don't have that much art if it's not popular enough or people that care to make one (in an official way) even with high popularity.

Note: Add below the Fan art this text - This is not an official artwork for the character but it holds the place to help users envision it. OR "Artwork credit to ..." Mention and link to the author of the fan art if possible.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Going from Damage's suggestion maybe something like this:

"Official art should always be the first choice for representing characters or subjects, while Fan art can serve as a suitable alternative to official art in instances where the mentioned is of inferior quality or fails to capture the essence or details of the characters or subjects effectively; It should not be used for characters or subjects that lack any form of official artwork and whose appearance is solely based on speculations as to what they may look like."

But if the character has descriptions of hair (shape, form, color, etc.), eyes, nose, mouth, scars, clothing, facial expressions, or any specific physical or characteristic traits then it's possible to have a Fan art be used since it's grounded on something (a source material) and not just pure speculations. Well, this is my opinion as novels, and books based characters don't have that much art if it's not popular enough or people that care to make one (in an official way) even with high popularity.

Note: Add below the Fan art this text - This is not an official artwork for the character but it holds the place to help users envision it. OR "Artwork credit to ..." Mention and link to the author of the fan art if possible.
Click to expand...
This is fine with me.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Going from Damage's suggestion maybe something like this:

"Official art should always be the first choice for representing characters or subjects, while Fan art can serve as a suitable alternative to official art in instances where the mentioned is of inferior quality or fails to capture the essence or details of the characters or subjects effectively; It should not be used for characters or subjects that lack any form of official artwork and whose appearance is solely based on speculations as to what they may look like."

But if the character has descriptions of hair (shape, form, color, etc.), eyes, nose, mouth, scars, clothing, facial expressions, or any specific physical or characteristic traits then it's possible to have a Fan art be used since it's grounded on something (a source material) and not just pure speculations. Well, this is my opinion as novels, and books based characters don't have that much art if it's not popular enough or people that care to make one (in an official way) even with high popularity.

Note: Add below the Fan art this text - This is not an official artwork for the character but it holds the place to help users envision it. OR "Artwork credit to ..." Mention and link to the author of the fan art if possible.
Click to expand...
This works.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Going from Damage's suggestion maybe something like this:

"Official art should always be the first choice for representing characters or subjects, while Fan art can serve as a suitable alternative to official art in instances where the mentioned is of inferior quality or fails to capture the essence or details of the characters or subjects effectively; It should not be used for characters or subjects that lack any form of official artwork and whose appearance is solely based on speculations as to what they may look like."

But if the character has descriptions of hair (shape, form, color, etc.), eyes, nose, mouth, scars, clothing, facial expressions, or any specific physical or characteristic traits then it's possible to have a Fan art be used since it's grounded on something (a source material) and not just pure speculations. Well, this is my opinion as novels, and books based characters don't have that much art if it's not popular enough or people that care to make one (in an official way) even with high popularity.

Note: Add below the Fan art this text - This is not an official artwork for the character but it holds the place to help users envision it. OR "Artwork credit to ..." Mention and link to the author of the fan art if possible.
Click to expand...
Looks good to me.
 
I also think that Zaratthustra's suggestion works well, as long as we make clear that using fan art for characters with no official images is a last resort, and should only be done if it is based on official descriptions of what the characters look like.

Also, what do our current rules say about this subject? We should preferably not blindly replace them with a new text, but try to incorporate the new material instead. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Also, what do our current rules say about this subject? We should preferably not blindly replace them with a new text, but try to incorporate the new material instead. 🙏
Click to expand...
This is the entire section on "The Use of Art" section in the rules. The proposal is rewording some of them to be more specific and given how the page uses bullet points, the rework would have have to adapt around this. The bolded parts do not need to be changed. The parts not bolded are sufficiently covered by the proposal.
  • Official art should be used whenever possible, as it is a more accurate representation of the characters or subjects depicted.
  • Fan art may be used as an alternative to official art if the official art is of poor quality or does not adequately represent the characters or subjects depicted.
  • If fanart is used, insert a text into the image's description page (not the caption section) that gives credit to the artist, and if you can, also provide a link to their website or profile on DeviantArt, Tumblr, etcetera.
  • Note that unrelated images, often for cases that lack sufficient (if any) visual details whatsoever to derive from, aren't allowed, as they apply unnecessary headcanon and derail from the purpose of illustrating the character or object in an appropriate manner.
  • In cases where fan art is used, it should be based on canonical descriptions and depictions of the characters or subjects depicted, unless there is no official art available and the fan art accurately describes the character.
  • The use of fan art should be limited to situations where it serves a specific purpose, such as filling a gap in official art or adding an element of creativity or personal expression to the profile.
  • The decision to use fan art in Vs Battle Wiki profiles should be made on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the purpose of the profile and the appropriateness of the art.
  • Always respect the intellectual property rights of artists and do not use their work without their permission or proper attribution. This includes not claiming their work as your own or using it for commercial purposes without their consent.
  • Rendered official arts are permitted. To request an image render, please visit here. The instructions are visible on this page.
  • Any questions or concerns about the use of art in Vs Battle Wiki profiles should be directed to the Profile image additions or replacements requests thread.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Going from Damage's suggestion maybe something like this:

"Official art should always be the first choice for representing characters or subjects, while Fan art can serve as a suitable alternative to official art in instances where the mentioned is of inferior quality or fails to capture the essence or details of the characters or subjects effectively; It should not be used for characters or subjects that lack any form of official artwork and whose appearance is solely based on speculations as to what they may look like."
Click to expand...
So should we add the above text segment to our current official rules?
Muchacho_mrm said:
  • Official art should be used whenever possible, as it is a more accurate representation of the characters or subjects depicted.
  • Fan art may be used as an alternative to official art if the official art is of poor quality or does not adequately represent the characters or subjects depicted.
  • If fanart is used, insert a text into the image's description page (not the caption section) that gives credit to the artist, and if you can, also provide a link to their website or profile on DeviantArt, Tumblr, etcetera.
  • Note that unrelated images, often for cases that lack sufficient (if any) visual details whatsoever to derive from, aren't allowed, as they apply unnecessary headcanon and derail from the purpose of illustrating the character or object in an appropriate manner.
  • In cases where fan art is used, it should be based on canonical descriptions and depictions of the characters or subjects depicted, unless there is no official art available and the fan art accurately describes the character.
  • The use of fan art should be limited to situations where it serves a specific purpose, such as filling a gap in official art or adding an element of creativity or personal expression to the profile.
  • The decision to use fan art in Vs Battle Wiki profiles should be made on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the purpose of the profile and the appropriateness of the art.
  • Always respect the intellectual property rights of artists and do not use their work without their permission or proper attribution. This includes not claiming their work as your own or using it for commercial purposes without their consent.
  • Rendered official arts are permitted. To request an image render, please visit here. The instructions are visible on this page.
  • Any questions or concerns about the use of art in Vs Battle Wiki profiles should be directed to the Profile image additions or replacements requests thread.
Click to expand...
 
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