Vegeta fights his fusion (GRACE)

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Base Gogeta (DBS: Broly) VS SSGSSE Vegeta (Tournament of Power)

* Standard Battle Assumptions (Low 2-C versions are used, speed is unequalized unless it's a blitz and they fight in the Cell Games Arena)

* Victory can be achieved by any means

* Gogeta is not allowed to transform into any of his Super Saiyan forms

* Vegeta: 7 (The_Unknown_Warrior1, WarriorofMite, Omegas03, ZERO7772, NomsNoms, BluudyManikin777, C2_of_Omegon)

* Gogeta: 3 (XSOULOFCINDERX, Nullflowerblush, Joseph69420xxx)

* Inconclusive: 1 (LightReinh12345)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Question, is Gogeta allowed to use Kaioken? I know that he's never shown it but as the fusion of Goku and Vegeta he should have it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I think so, but it's just not going to be an in-character move for him since he never used it in canon

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Okay.
Well my issue with this fight is that Gogeta didn't really do anything in base form aside from dodging and weaving around Ssj Broly's attacks before going Ssj, and while Gogeta is stated to be stronger then SSB Goku and Vegeta in base form, that pales in comparison to SSBE (assuming you're using Post ToP Vegeta BTW) which is stated to be equal to SSB Kaioken x20.
Doesn't Vegeta have higher stamina then Gogeta? Because assuming Vegeta and Gogeta are equal in strength speed and durability, Vegeta could play the waiting game for 30 minutes so Gogeta defuses

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm using ToP SSGSSE Vegeta. He never used the form again after the ToP.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

In that case wouldn't Gogeta hypothetically be stronger then this SSBE Vegeta? In the movie Goku and him opted to fuse to fight Broly despite having access to SSB Kaioken x20 and SSBE respectively and they were stronger then their ToP counterparts.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Idk, pretty sure the fusing thing was just a thing the movie pulled to show Gogeta

Also I don't think it mentioned by how much they improved since the ToP

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Okay if they didn't get that much stronger after the ToP and assuming Gogeta is only stronger then just regular SSB, I'll vote for Vegeta due to having higher AP and durability and arguably having enough stamina to outlast Gogeta's thirty minute time limit

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ok. Counted

 

[WarriorofMite]

I'm using ToP SSGSSE Vegeta. He never used the form again after the ToP.

He does in the Moro Arc.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

He does in the Moro Arc.

This is DBS Anime Vegeta. Not Manga Vegeta

 

[WarriorofMite]

Are multipliers accepted on this site? SSBE was considered SSBKKx20 equal in power so SSBE should be a 20x multiplier to SSB. Base fusion is usually considered stronger than the fusee's top form, SSB in this case. Is Gogeta =/> 20x SSB? They could be close in power. If so, then Vegeta should have the advantage as he doesn't have to win but simply last for the 30 minutes for Gogeta to defuse then pick off the individual parts.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Are multipliers accepted on this site? SSBE was considered SSBKKx20 equal in power so SSBE should be a 20x multiplier to SSB. Base fusion is usually considered stronger than the fusee's top form, SSB in this case. Is Gogeta =/> 20x SSB? They could be close in power. If so, then Vegeta should have the advantage as he doesn't have to win but simply last for the 30 minutes for Gogeta to defuse then pick off the individual parts.

So who do you vote for?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Do we even know if Base Gogeta was 20x stronger then SSB Goku and Vegeta? Even 2x is usually a massive power boost in DB

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure Base Gogeta is at least > SSB Goku + SSB Vegeta from the Broly movie and that they definitely became much stronger than their post UIO2 selves (since Goku also had UIO3 & MUI afterwards so Goku probably got another boost from that, and Vegeta caught up too)

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

And he still has Kaioken if he really needs it.

 

[WarriorofMite]

So who do you vote for?

I'm pretty sure Base Gogeta is at least > SSB Goku + SSB Vegeta from the Broly movie and that they definitely became much stronger than their post UIO2 selves (since Goku also had UIO3 & MUI afterwards so Goku probably got another boost from that, and Vegeta caught up too)

With this info, that would put Gogeta at (SSB Goku + SSB Vegeta) aka SSB x 2. Plus how ever much they grew post ToP. Even if we were generous and say they doubled in power then they would be SSB x 2 x Goku and Vegeta = SSB x 4. Versus SSBE Vegeta who is SSB x 20. This looks like SSBE Vegeta takes it down. I'll vote for him.

 

[LightReinh12345]

Gogeta has more tchniques & he has the combined intelligence of Goku & Vegeta
He is far more skilled than either of them but I believe Vegeta can outlast the Fusion with higher AP
Goku & Vegeta obviously got much stronger after ToP
But the thing is Gogeta can use Kaio ken to defeat Vegeta

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Gogeta has more tchniques & he has the combined intelligence of Goku & Vegeta
He is far more skilled than either of them but I believe Vegeta can outlast the Fusion with higher AP
Goku & Vegeta obviously got much stronger after ToP
But the thing is Gogeta can use Kaio ken to defeat Vegeta

So who do you vote for?

 

[LightReinh12345]

So who do you vote for?

Gogeta

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Cool. Counted

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'll go with Gogeta via Kaioken Clutch FRA.

 

[Omegas03]

Depends on how much stronger than ToP are DBSB Goku and Vegeta.

Gogeta is at least 2x SSB Goku who is > ToP SSB Goku.

While SSBE Vegeta is >20x ToP SSB Goku.

I am voting Vegeta, I doubt Base Gogeta was that strong. Vegeta is probably closer to SSJ than to Base Gogeta.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Counted

 

[LightReinh12345]

Depends on how much stronger than ToP are DBSB Goku and Vegeta.

Gogeta is at least 2x SSB Goku who is > ToP SSB Goku.

While SSBE Vegeta is >20x ToP SSB Goku.

I am voting Vegeta, I doubt Base Gogeta was that strong. Vegeta is probably closer to SSJ than to Base Gogeta.

Gogeta can use kaio ken

 

[Omegas03]

When has Base Goku used Kaioken since the Frieza Saga?

The fact that he can use it doesn't mean he will.

 

[LightReinh12345]

When has Base Goku used Kaioken since the Frieza Saga?

The fact that he can use it doesn't mean he will.

Will if he cant use super saiyan he will use Kaio-ken if he is in a AP disadvantage

 

[WarriorofMite]

Will if he cant use super saiyan he will use Kaio-ken if he is in a AP disadvantage

Based on my previous statement. Vegeta stands to be as much as 5x stronger, possibly more. Even if Gogeta used KKx5+ there's the strain from KK that would not only take a toll on his body but should also dramatically reduce the fusion duration to nil. Even if Gogeta could use KKx20 like Goku, he would then only stand to be about 4x stronger than Vegeta, possibly less. Even with KK, Gogeta is not one-shotting Vegeta and he would likely have only a matter of minutes at most to finish him and that's if it was even possible for Gogeta to use and maintain it long enough to defeat Vegeta in time before KK does him in or the fusion timer wears out. Even with the power of KK, I fell like it still may not be enough. Either Vegeta beats him Non-KK with AP or with KK by simply surviving long enough. KK or not, Vegeta likely still wins anyways.

 

[LightReinh12345]

Based on my previous statement. Vegeta stands to be as much as 5x stronger, possibly more. Even if Gogeta used KKx5+ there's the strain from KK that would not only take a toll on his body but should also dramatically reduce the fusion duration to nil. Even if Gogeta could use KKx20 like Goku, he would then only stand to be about 4x stronger than Vegeta, possibly less. Even with KK, Gogeta is not one-shotting Vegeta and he would likely have only a matter of minutes at most to finish him and that's if it was even possible for Gogeta to use and maintain it long enough to defeat Vegeta in time before KK does him in or the fusion timer wears out. Even with the power of KK, I fell like it still may not be enough. Either Vegeta beats him Non-KK with AP or with KK by simply surviving long enough. KK or not, Vegeta likely still wins anyways.

Goku can easily maintain KKx20 with Blue in later arcs
I dont See Gogeta troubling with KKx20 & take strain from it , It would no Rede the Fusion time to Nil it would only shorten the time a Bit
(If I use heroes Vegeta blue kaioken example many people will say promotional Anime doesnt matter but I dont See why they cant use blue kaioken easily & maintain Fusion let alone ordinary kaioken)
On top of that they trained & obviously got much stronger after ToP which U guys didnt include
I voted Gogeta & the Rest is ur opinion
& a matter of minutes is a Lot (ToP Vegeta vs toppo & then Vegeta vs jiren happened in a matter of minutes, Vegeta defeated toppo & I dont think he was beyond 4 times stronger than toppo at that Moment)

 

[WarriorofMite]

Goku can easily maintain KKx20 with Blue in later arcs
I dont See Gogeta troubling with KKx20 & take strain from it , It would no Rede the Fusion time to Nil it would only shorten the time a Bit
(If I use heroes Vegeta blue kaioken example many people will say promotional Anime doesnt matter but I dont See why they cant use blue kaioken easily & maintain Fusion let alone ordinary kaioken)

There is more evidence to suggest it would reduce the timer a lot. Goten and Trunks said that they could only maintain SS3 Gotenks for about 5 minutes because of how powerful it was. KKx20 + fusion is much more power than SS3 Gotenks, so it seems way more likely that the fusion would not only be shorter but even shorter than Gotenks due to how much power they would be using. Gogeta is likely thousands of times stronger than SS3 Gotenks. With that much power, he may only have a matter of seconds.

Heroes is non canon and their Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than our current counterparts. Scaling to or from them is pointless.

On top of that they trained & obviously got much stronger after ToP which U guys didnt include

I did include them getting stronger Post ToP. I was actually quite generous in my calculation and said they doubled their total power. Which we know they didn't since the ToP was shown to not have been a long time ago. I high balled their gains actually.

& a matter of minutes is a Lot (ToP Vegeta vs toppo & then Vegeta vs jiren happened in a matter of minutes, Vegeta defeated toppo & I dont think he was beyond 4 times stronger than toppo at that Moment)

If it even lasts that long. Even if KK makes Gogeta more powerful than Vegeta he still may not win due to strain and/or defusing. This fight could very well play out a lot like Saiyan Saga Goku vs Vegeta were Vegeta holds a big power advantage, more so in this case, and Gogeta if forced to use KK to get some hits in but ultimately fails due to Vegeta's durability holding out long enough for KK to do him or he defuses.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If this is current, assuming Gogeta is equal to Vegeta's Blue form in base, then SSB Evolution Vegeta has a 2x advantage over him.

Assuming this is SSB Evolution Vegeta in the Tournament of Power, then I'm placing my bets on Gogeta, since Goku and Vegeta have been training for several months, if I recall correctly, following the tournament, so they have at least grown twice as a powerful as before, which closes the gap between them. After that, it comes down to abilities and technique, but Gogeta is half of Vegeta and half of Goku, so he has all of their powers, abilities, skills, knowledge, and technique, so he gets outclassed in that category.

So, if it's current, then Vegeta, but if this Vegeta is from the Tournament of Power, then my vote's going to Gogeta.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I stated before that this is ToP Anime SSGSSE Vegeta, so I'll count your vote accordingly

 

[Joseph69420xxx]

gogeta fra

 

[LightReinh12345]

There is more evidence to suggest it would reduce the timer a lot. Goten and Trunks said that they could only maintain SS3 Gotenks for about 5 minutes because of how powerful it was. KKx20 + fusion is much more power than SS3 Gotenks, so it seems way more likely that the fusion would not only be shorter but even shorter than Gotenks due to how much power they would be using. Gogeta is likely thousands of times stronger than SS3 Gotenks. With that much power, he may only have a matter of seconds.

Heroes is non canon and their Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than our current counterparts. Scaling to or from them is pointless.

I did include them getting stronger Post ToP. I was actually quite generous in my calculation and said they doubled their total power. Which we know they didn't since the ToP was shown to not have been a long time ago. I high balled their gains actually.

If it even lasts that long. Even if KK makes Gogeta more powerful than Vegeta he still may not win due to strain and/or defusing. This fight could very well play out a lot like Saiyan Saga Goku vs Vegeta were Vegeta holds a big power advantage, more so in this case, and Gogeta if forced to use KK to get some hits in but ultimately fails due to Vegeta's durability holding out long enough for KK to do him or he defuses.

Actually U lowballed their gains double is a lowball
Didnt guides say they were reaching the power of a God after top
AS I said already he wouldnt gains that much strain cause Goku can now easily maintain Blue Kaioken let alone normal Kaioken
On top of that Gogeta have Goku+ Vegeta 's all skills, tactics

 

[WarriorofMite]

Actually U lowballed their gains double is a lowball

I'm going to need an explanation on how Goku and Vegeta more than doubled their already huge power in what was such a short amount of time. What evidence is there to suggest that they did so?

AS I said already he wouldn't gains that much strain cause Goku can now easily maintain Blue Kaioken let alone normal Kaioken

We don;t know what KK would do to him. No fusion character in canon has used KK. Strain aside, there is the issue of Gogeta defusing. If Gotenks can only maintain SS3 for 5 minutes and Gogeta is going to be using massively more power than that, what reason is there not to think his timer would be even shorter?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Base Vegeta alone is already on a completely different level than SSJ3 Gotenks, and Base Gogeta is insanely stronger than Base Vegeta, so Gogeta being stronger than Gotenks doesn't mean much

 

[WarriorofMite]

Base Vegeta alone is already on a completely different level than SSJ3 Gotenks, and Base Gogeta is insanely stronger than Base Vegeta, so Gogeta being stronger than Gotenks doesn't mean much

It does. Pre-DB Super, fusion in GT with SS4 Goku and Vegeta reduced their timer.

Gogeta being stronger isn't what I was talking about specifically but his use of KK. Even in DBS, Goku and Vegeta established that because they were stronger and using more power the fusion timer was shorter. This happened to both Gotenks with the fusion dance and Vegito during the Black Arc.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It does. Pre-DB Super, fusion in GT with SS4 Goku and Vegeta reduced their timer.

Gogeta being stronger isn't what I was talking about specifically but his use of KK. Even in DBS, Goku and Vegeta established that because they were stronger and using more power the fusion timer was shorter. This happened to both Gotenks with the fusion dance and Vegito during the Black Arc.

Yeah this is correct. Transformation does seem to affect the time limit on fusions

 

[LightReinh12345]

I'm going to need an explanation on how Goku and Vegeta more than doubled their already huge power in what was such a short amount of time. What evidence is there to suggest that they did so?

We don;t know what KK would do to him. No fusion character in canon has used KK. Strain aside, there is the issue of Gogeta defusing. If Gotenks can only maintain SS3 for 5 minutes and Gogeta is going to be using massively more power than that, what reason is there not to think his timer would be even shorter?

They Trained for months after that, every time they trains they get stronger than merely double, also they were reaching the power of a God
In Goku black arc u See how vegeta & goku got massively stronger
Why wouldnt he
Kaio ken & SS3 are not same thing
Goku spammed blue kaio ken x 20 in tournament of power
I dont See why gogeta would get drained with Kaio Ken x20?!
Why do u think kaio ken will drain the Fusion time more than SS3 (while Gotenks is inexperienced with SS3 too)
What proof is saying that Kaio kem reduces Fusion time more than SS3?!
Also I explained Vegeta beat Toppo & then fought with Jiren in few minutes
So I think 5 minutes is enough
Gogeta is much faster & stronger with kaio ken so he would likely win
Unless u are talking about hypothetical Broly movie blue Evolution vegeta
Edit:
No wait a Minute
Vegeta Got a amp from fighting Toppo
So Blue Evolution multiplier much higher 20 times Blue
Then maybe vegeta can take this