Vegeta fights his fusion (GRACE)

[Joseph69420xxx]

No wait a Minute
Vegeta Got a amp from fighting Toppo
So Blue Evolution multiplier much higher 20 times Blue
Then maybe vegeta can take this

the amp from toppo would not make the multiplier more it would affect base so that would not really matter

 

[WarriorofMite]

They Trained for months after that, every time they trains they get stronger than merely double, also they were reaching the power of a God

No they don't. Them getting more than doubling in power in a few months does not happen everytime. Post HBTC Vegeta went in a second time and when he came out he was still below Goku who spent less than one year in it with Gohan. He got nothing out of it. Piccolo went in as well and was still so weak Vegeta berated him. Goku after fighting Tien to King Piccolo only went from a power level of 180 to 260. In the time skip to the Buu Saga, Vegeta only got SS2 and that was Vegeta's ASSJ form--> SS2 after 7 YEARS of training. It is not consistent and many of Goku's power increases are from Plot Armor.

In Goku black arc u See how vegeta & goku got massively stronger

Vegeta's in explained, he trained a year in the HBTC, not a few months. Goku caught up for no reason at all, aka Plot Armor power up. Goku didn't train after that. Vegeta should have stayed stronger, Goku suddenly becoming stronger despite Vegeta spending a year in the HBTC and Goku zero is never explained and quite silly.

Kaio ken & SS3 are not same thing
Goku spammed blue kaio ken x 20 in tournament of power
I dont See why gogeta would get drained with Kaio Ken x20?!
Why do u think kaio ken will drain the Fusion time more than SS3 (while Gotenks is inexperienced with SS3 too)
What proof is saying that Kaio kem reduces Fusion time more than SS3?!

• True but the same standard exists. Goku said they used more power. He never says the word transformation. KK uses more power like the transformations do, despite not being a transformation itself.
• And he was exhausted for a large part of it. Roshi even says that both SSB and KK both strain him and that by using both it was why he was so tired.
• Why wouldn't he, it drains Goku. Also, Vegeta's body has never experienced that strain. So he certainly isn't use to it.
• Because it uses more power. The power generated by SS3 Gotenks is less than KKx20 Gogeta. Gogeta is technically inexperienced with KK too since he has never used it in canon and Vegeta's half might make it more difficult to use.
• Goku's statement about more power reducing fusion timer.

Also I explained Vegeta beat Toppo & then fought with Jiren in few minutes
So I think 5 minutes is enough
Gogeta is much faster & stronger with kaio ken so he would likely win

Gogeta will be stronger with KKx20 but it wouldn't be by a huge amount. Vegeta doesn't have to win, he just has to not lose. All he has to do is bleed out the time.

 

[LightReinh12345]

No they don't. Them getting more than doubling in power in a few months does not happen everytime. Post HBTC Vegeta went in a second time and when he came out he was still below Goku who spent less than one year in it with Gohan. He got nothing out of it. Piccolo went in as well and was still so weak Vegeta berated him. Goku after fighting Tien to King Piccolo only went from a power level of 180 to 260. In the time skip to the Buu Saga, Vegeta only got SS2 and that was Vegeta's ASSJ form--> SS2 after 7 YEARS of training. It is not consistent and many of Goku's power increases are from Plot Armor.

Vegeta's in explained, he trained a year in the HBTC, not a few months. Goku caught up for no reason at all, aka Plot Armor power up. Goku didn't train after that. Vegeta should have stayed stronger, Goku suddenly becoming stronger despite Vegeta spending a year in the HBTC and Goku zero is never explained and quite silly.

• True but the same standard exists. Goku said they used more power. He never says the word transformation. KK uses more power like the transformations do, despite not being a transformation itself.
• And he was exhausted for a large part of it. Roshi even says that both SSB and KK both strain him and that by using both it was why he was so tired.
• Why wouldn't he, it drains Goku. Also, Vegeta's body has never experienced that strain. So he certainly isn't use to it.
• Because it uses more power. The power generated by SS3 Gotenks is less than KKx20 Gogeta. Gogeta is technically inexperienced with KK too since he has never used it in canon and Vegeta's half might make it more difficult to use.
• Goku's statement about more power reducing fusion timer.

Gogeta will be stronger with KKx20 but it wouldn't be by a huge amount. Vegeta doesn't have to win, he just has to not lose. All he has to do is bleed out the time.

Original DB Power Levels are exponential
So 180 to 260 example cant work here
Vegeta got stronger, he thought he surpassed 50% MSSJ Goku, & before going second time he was shocked by the power
Goku spammed Kaio ken x 20 in top multiple times without that much strain & was keeping up with moderately Suppressed Jiren & Blue Evolution Vegeta
Except Gogeta is not inexperienced with Kaio ken, cause goku isnt, he has combined skills of Goku & Vegeta & far more durability, stamina & Potential than any of them
The only Argument for Vegeta's winning is that he got a Amp from the Toppo fight & surpassed Blue Kaio Ken x20 Goku at that moment Which I think he really got a amp from fighting Toppo
Also since u are saying 260 from 180 kid Goku pl example I tell u one think Goku literally beats vegeta before he went oozaru in their fight with Kaio Ken & strength slightly superior to him thats not even two times
Let alone here u are using Four times
One for thing before u say something
The fight isnt that long what they show us & in the manga it was pretty quick too
Like Namek's 5 minutes
They just move too fast so dont use Anime timeframe

 

[WarriorofMite]

This is really all going to boil down to, can Gogeta use KKx20 and use it to defeat SSBE Vegeta quickly before he burns out or defuses? That's pretty much what people have to vote on.

 

[LightReinh12345]

Then its better to say its inconclusive

 

[ZERO7772]

Vegeta should take this unless Gogeta can use Kaio-ken to one shot before he defuse.
Gogeta is stronger than Blue Vegeta but this doesn't apply into anime forms like Blue Evolution so Vegeta has AP and speed advantage right off the bat.

Voting Vegeta.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump.

Also can someone do a vote count with who voted for who? It's pretty hard for me to determine who voted lately and to which character

 

[Nierre]

You've got it right so far. Anyways, I vote for Vegeta FRA, mostly because I doubt Gogeta would use Kaio ken, and even if he did, hed probably use it late game, and I doubt it's enough to make a big difference, seeing how Vegeta can just wait the fusion out. (Making it 5-4-1 now).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ok then. Counted

 

[WarriorofMite]

You have Lightreinh12345 voted twice as Gogeta and Inconclusive.

 

[LightReinh12345]

I think Vegeta Got a good Amp from Toppo fight he easily surpassed SSBKKx20 back there
Cause Toppo was beating the shit out of him & then he overpowered Toppo
So I will say Inconclusive for now if Gogeta use Kaio Ken x 20

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

You have Lightreinh12345 voted twice as Gogeta and Inconclusive.

Oops. That was a mistake. Changed it accrodingly

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I don't think that his fusion timer is really going to be affected by KKx20 or the lesser versions.

Gotenks didn't defuse because SS3, IIRC, he just used up his time. Remember people, SS3 has ridiculous energy consumptions and Gotenks can only use it 5 minutes before going back to base. He lost SS3 and then went back to base and only defused after getting pummeled by Buu. He'd also spent time trying to get out of the RoST with Piccolo which would have wasted fusion time. Gotenks' timer never suffered from doing something like going SS (a >40x power increase) and SS3 (which is way above SS) didn't shorten that time either. So KKx20 really shouldn't do anything to that since it doesn't compare to the SS transformations' power.

Kefla didn't suffer any time shortages either with her SS transformations. Yes, she's a different kind of fusion but this is noticeable as Vegito used up all his time via SSB. Based on that, only SSB (which grants more power then vast majority of SS forms) affects the timer in any way that we can see and even then that's only for Potara fusion. We've never seen that with the Fusion Dance.

Now, as for Gogeta's actual power. We know he's stronger than Post-ToP SSB Goku or Vegeta, who are stronger than ToP SSB Goku. SSBE Vegeta is 20x stronger than ToP SSB Goku. So, Gogeta using KKx20 would at >= SSBE Vegeta at least. I'm not counting Vegeta beating GoD Toppo because that was more than likely Vegeta Rage Boosting. (Remember Toppo throwing away his pride is completely anthesis to Vegeta's personality and motivations)

Based upon that, I'm going Vegeta. Gogeta is more skilled and versatile than Vegeta plus he knows how Vegeta fights. Problem is, he's still not strong enough to oneshot Vegeta and he's on a timer. Vegeta knows this and is extremely tenacious and high levels of endurance. Also, if Gogeta ever gets knocked out of KKx20 (which is possible), Vegeta can actually one shot.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Counted

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Voting for Vegeta for reasons above

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Counted

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

After re-reading my own argument, I'm switching to Vegeta. I realize that I gave more points in Vegeta's favor. Gogeta's 30 minute timer really works against him and his skill advantage would force Vegeta into a defensive posture on top of the high chance Vegeta just resolves to wait the timer out.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Counted. Also Grace