Utsuho Reiuji(Okuu) Upgrade

[Luvimi]

I think there is a large underestimation of Touhou chars here, i know they have very little facts and delimitation of powers, which i guess pull them down.

But in Okuu's case we have a clear bottom limitation, let me explain.

She was a common hell raven youkai, until Kanako fed her the corpse of a Yatagaratsu. It is stated that Yatagaratsu are servant of Amateratsu, and are the power source of the sun, THE ENTIRE SUN is just the energy aura of one Yatagaratsu.

Originaly there was 10 suns, but the archer Houyi, former husband of Junko, and afterward Chang'e shot 9 out of the 10 Yatagaratsu, one of them fall on Junko's son and killed him, so Kanako really got the corpse of one of those Yatagaratsu to enpower Utsuho, which worked beyond expectation.

So of course she will not sumon a real star underground, she is not that stupid, her goal is not to vaporise Earth.

In conclusion i think her attack potency should be at minimum a common Yellow star level, well it is my opinion and my arguments.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well our current Yatagarasu profile is only Low 4-C via sheer size.

But I do agree that Okuu should scale to Yatagarasu.

She literally ate its corprse, and its power is now hers. In fact, it would be much easier for her to constantly release the bird's full power instead of containing it. So the argument that she can't use its full power makes little sense.

 

[Luvimi]

Bump

 

[Promestein]

I'd be pretty fine with scaling Okuu to Yatagarasu / upgrading to 4-C, I think.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well if we are in this subject...

I would be against scaling Yukari and Suika to Okuu.

At her current state, she has the power of a Lunarian God and is considered "scary" even by Lunarian. And she isn't from Gensokyo. So I think Okuu should be on her own with that.

Although High 6-A should still easily scale, since the feat was an extremely casual one and a spell card attack. It shouldn't be lethal to the players.

 

[Andykhang]

I would said parallel to Lunarian God though. And Okuu still follow the Spell Card rule, which Yukari have her hand all over, despite being her, so I'm not counting that out yet.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

People much stronger than Yukari used Spell Cards before. This isn't a good argument to make.

And Yukari being Low 4-C would put her too close to Yorihime in power. Storywise, only Okuu being Tier 4 makes more sense.

 

[Andykhang]

And way smarter than Okuu. The problem is restrain. It's most likely that she would not follow the rule due to a lack of brain power, yet she still is.

Edit: Of course, Kanako could have something to do with that...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Junko is literally an embodiment of her own rage at this point, yet she still does it. Nothing indicating she DIDN'T follow the rules.

The only time it happened, it was a big enough deal to have a whole game about it.

Also that would imply Low 4-C Cirno too. Which is nonsense.

 

[DontTalk]

... I know I have discussed scaling Yatagaratsu to Utsuho with Saikou at least twice.

"About Utsuho: Well, it was said that some people would be better in using the powers than other (the more stupid one is the better of a vessel). So I would be dubious about saying that utsuho is as powerful as the original." -Me from a prior discussion

"Well, powering the sun is continent level. Sun spots I spontanously don´t know, but I doubt planet level." -Me from a prior discussion

Note: Sunspots are like Country level IIRC from that one calc that I can't find currently.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Like I just said, it's literally stated that it is easier to just let the power of the god rage around rather than control it. The fact that Okuu manages to contain an uncontrollable Tier 4 force inside her is the most impressive part. Just letting out the power itself would be much easier.

Also the rating isn't from creating Sun Spots. It's that it's literally the bird's physical form poking out of the sun. Yatagarasu is at least Sun spot sized. But considering sun spots can appear at opposite ends of the sun, it's likely sun sized.

 

[Luvimi]

How could powering a star could be continent level?

 

[DontTalk]

How could powering a star could be continent level?

The sun only radiates continent level energy per second. In other words in order to "power" it you would only need to supply continent level amount of energy constantly.

@Saikou: Well, its physical size would kinda not be an argument for Utsuho, given that Utsuho doesn't inherit the size.

I am not exactly sure which statement you are referring to (seriously when does it get a habit to provide sources for stuff?), but essentially having a power source inside someone is different from being able to channel all of its energy. The matter of controling the amount of energy you can channel is something apart from that.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The thing would be Low 4-C via sheer size. It's more or less obvious that its power (And the ones it gives out) should be similar. Having gods powers that are lesser than you physically is silly.

"You should be able to contain that power within your body."

"(The power I can feel inside of her

is a Yatagarasu.)"

"This god's power is the power of the sun, a divine flame. It is this power that has become hers."

I think it should be obvious that Okuu doesn't just borrow its power. She has the thing inside her. Its power is hers.

"The temperature of the divine flame is extremely high, so it will continue to burn even if left alone. This makes it extremely difficult to control. Apparently it requires much less power to release the divine flame than it does to control it."

This quote (From SoPM) more or less says that it's nigh impossible to control. So she doesn't need power or skill to release the full power, but she needs it to prevent it from being released.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It's a rarity for me to pop up but I've been exploring the PC-98 games too. There are some... very stellar abilities there and Reimu may possess BFR in it, but anyway planetary to stellar Windows is not really a shocking thing.

After all Sanae could make stars shine bright enough to be seen on day and then there's the Toyosatomimi and Marisa planetary feats too for Gensokyo only folks. Then there's the confusing IN scaling if ever needed.

Either way I support scaling up Okuu since letting loose something is much more easier than controlling something.

 

[Luvimi]

Attack potency should refer to what she can destroy with an attack, if she can create a whole star, she can at least destroy something of this size

 

[Fllflourine]

Did you get this information from Touhou Wiki? Just wondering.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well from the Wiki and the actual works. My quotes are from the books/games.

 

[Fllflourine]

I suppose, yeah, I can agree with these upgrades, especially as Okuu ate the corpse of a Yatagaratsu and is able to contain and harness it (and as mentioned before it would be much easier for her to just release the full power rather than try and contain it, which she can do)

 

[Andykhang]

Hm... I would put it in a "probably" though. Still no direct proof yet, and the underground sun only shown that she have a trillion time efficiency (compare to actual sun).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Still no direct proof yet" The burden of proof is likely on the opposite side here. No direct proof that she can't use the full power of a being she absorbed.

Also, said sun was created under Spell Card rule. Not at all a showing of her true power.

 

[Andykhang]

Also no direct proof that she have use it, yet (she never found the situation where she somehow have a star amount of resource after all).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

She haven't used it =\= she can't. She never even fought at full power.

 

[Andykhang]

And you use the same argument I used with Yukari and her boundary. (point, that's vague as fk, but still...)

Anyway, we agree that she could used that amount of power. But without thing like Okuu is in the middle of a star creation, I doubt people other than us would buy into that. That's why I propose to put it in "probably" instead of outright saying it.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

What? Okuu has the power of someone as large as a star, that's as straightforward as you can get.

 

[Andykhang]

And you see how that logic leap go? In the first place, Yatagarasu in-verse only said to be the sunspot visible from the human eyes, not entire star (though that still doesn't said how could Utsuho eat all of it (until they learn about Kanako anyway), but at least country-to-planet size is easier to digest than star size). And having power of someone doesn't exactly mean they could use their full power, as you could just said Okuu is only constantly using her full power, which would only be a fraction of it.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Gensokyo only has human sight, so of course Akyuu would only refer to sunspots visible. Even then, the bird would still be a good fraction of the sun.

Also that bird is freaking dead. Okuu ate it, made its power her own, and that it's much easier to no release its power. You're the one making assumptions here.

 

[Andykhang]

Yeah, another point: It's dead. You see how many power of shinto relied on the concept of soul, and so many thing would be better alive? How many power would be left in the corpse of the bird? And though Shinto soul could be split infinitely without losing power, how many people would buy that just because Okuu eat part of it divine spirit, and from a death one no less?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're going into even more speculation here. It's explicitly stated that the bird's power is now hers. Nowhere is it hinted that it lost its power.

 

[Andykhang]

Yeah, cus is that not what people do? Point is that I afraid the more rabid of fan wouldn't accept this kind of upgrade where there's so many hole in it.

 

[Promestein]

Baseless speculation is irrelevant and unhelpful

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're making up holes to try to find any way that could make it doubtful, but much more obvious signs points to this being legit. The points you're bringing wouldn't really be accepted if they try to disprove it.

 

[Elione-Arisu]

So are you going to edit her profile or not ? Everything seems fine to me

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I'm more wondering if this would scale to anyone else. There was that statement before that Yukari can destroy Gensokyo and I wonder if she would scale to Okuu in that regard. But maybe we can bring up Planetary Touhou again?

 

[Elione-Arisu]

Well, Yukari is like, older than Gensyoko itself, and remember, the older a youkai is, the stronger it is. So I personally don't see the problem if she scales to Utsuho.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk is the Touhou expert. You should probably wait for him to reply.

 

[Elione-Arisu]

K

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I actually disagree with scaling Yukari to Low 4-C.

While we could do it if Okuu was a normal Youkai, she is powered by a Lunarian God. It would be like scaling Yukari to Yorihime or something basically.

 

[Elione-Arisu]

K

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It's more in accordance to how everyone else and their mothers could gain the planetary scaling from the other buffs that are around, like Sanae's shining feat, but we can ignore that too and look at things like Marisa's planet feat, Miko's planet feat, Suika's planet feat that could scale with everyone.

Actually I should get back on working on that thread.