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Well, we cannot scale the UDM and Hecate from the GEB and The Presence, so we should probably focus our discussion on their own personal feats instead. If they are decided to be of a 1-A scale, so be it.
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Yeah. I agree with this.Hecate cannot be superior to the Presence. The Collective Uncounscous was born from the Presence/Source. The Great Evil Beast should have two key, one for the original and another for the Otherkinds fragment.
In the comic.Wait, when was it stated that lucifer was weaker than GEB?
No he isn't, what parallel universe do you live in where this is true?Lucifer is legit a rival or relative to the Presence.
Mind posting scans, and something being older or primal dosent mean it's superior to it. Dream of the endless arguably came before lucifer but he is still fodder to hi.In the comic.
"This Darkness is no mere Fallen Angel, it is something much older and more primal"
I actually read the comic, mate. In 2000, it's literally stated on panel that lucifer and Michael's power were equal to the Presence, and in 2016, lucifer legit choped a being who was calling himself the presence and had power over all of creation.No he isn't, what parallel universe do you live in where this is true?
This is a pretty gross misrepresentation of the text. The quote is this:"This Darkness is no mere Fallen Angel, it is something much older and more primal"
Mathew brought it up...Oh my lord. This is not a Lucifer thread people.
The Presence is not equal to geb at all, yes, they are equal in importance but not in strength. Plus I don't even belive that the hand is the Presence.If the GEB was an aspect of Lucifer that would be implying Lucifer > The Presence. Which is just flat out wrong. End of story.
No, it wouldnt. GEB isnt > The Presence and isn't even necessarily = to the Presencce.If the GEB was an aspect of Lucifer that would be implying Lucifer > The Presence.
It might have been the Presence, it might not have been, but even if it was the Presence that wouldn't necessarily make them equals. We have no particular reason to believe that the Presence would have acted to destroy the Great Darkness outright.It seems heavily implied to me the hand was God, however I respect if you think otherwise
There’s literally no proof he could eliminate him either. However I’ll respect if you think otherwise so we could move on from this topic. Since this is basically just bickering at this point.That because of balance ive posted this scan to the hunted god "the universe needs balance a dark to define the light". The presence wouldn't straight up eliminate him
You said if GEB is Lucifer then Lucifer > Presence, which is false. At the very best it would be Lucifer = PresenceI never said GEB > The Presence
They're shown to be arm wrestling. Have you ever arm wrestled? If you're stronger than your opponent, it's quite easy to keep them in the middle.they’re literally shown to be locked in a stalemate with each other.
Precisely. We don't know one way or the other.There’s literally no proof he could eliminate him either.
AgreedYou said if GEB is Lucifer then Lucifer > Presence, which is false. At the very best it would be Lucifer = Presence
They're shown to be arm wrestling. Have you ever arm wrestled? If you're stronger than your opponent, it's quite easy to keep them in the middle.
Precisely. We don't know one way or the other.
From what I read about lucifer 2018, it takes place after Sandman and before the beginning of 2000.tldr of what I think:
-I dont think that this is Lucifer is the GEB, he occupies somewhat of a same role, probably except being the void before time as there's really no solid evidence that support it.
-I think in this run, Lucifer being = to Presence is something that is not that unbelievable once you considered that the authors main source is the Sandman
-This run is clearly not the continuation of the 2000 run, its also doesnt look like it took place before it as I previously though so the only explanation that I can think of is that, as the writer said, is only the continuation of Sandman.
-There should be another key for Lucifer's profile because of this
Edit: fixed some brain farts
Then Michael shouldnt be there, Michael was capture by Sandalphon after the war and as only freed by Lucifer in the 2000 run. So hes pretty much gone until Lucifer freed him in his 2000 run. Michael in this run also wasnt portrayed as a fractal being, so he doesnt have multiple stories/origins like LuciferFrom what I read about lucifer 2018, it takes place after Sandman and before the beginning of 2000.
Bur the last volume of lucifer takes place after the time period I said about. I'll post some scansThen Michael shouldnt be there, Michael was capture by Sandalphon after the war and as only freed by Lucifer in the 2000 run. So hes pretty much gone until Lucifer freed him
Also, from the war flashback, it doesnt seem like Michael was stabbed in the back.
Yeah, I know it takes place after Sandman, but it doesnt make sense for it to take place before the 2000 run. So, I could only guess that what they did was use the The Sandman as their primary material, which is what Dan Watters did sayBur the last volume of lucifer takes place after the time period I said about. I'll post some scans
Yeah, Morpheus's death and Lux's being built is there, so its after The Sandman. I'm not really disputing that. Its why I also thought that its before Mike Carey's run but the last volume screwed that theory up.
The difference is immaterial. Aspect doesn't mean "small subsect of power."I said if the GEB was an aspect of Lucifer
The only arguments made for the upgrade were GEB and the Source Wall, neither of which stand to scrutiny in my opinion, since as stated scaling Hecate to GEB breaks the cosmology pointlessly, and the evidence for the Source Wall is incredibly shifty. With that in mind, I don't think any particular changes need to be made.What do you think that we should do here?
That makes sense. If I remember correctly at the end of the Lucifer (2000) Run we saw that there were a multitude of different Lucifers.Like, in the case of Code Geass anime and film series are said to be both canon, but in the sense theyre in a different continuity/universe so theres really no retcon that happened.