UPGRADE ATTACK POTENCY 4A (GENSHIN IMPACT)

[Furina003]

Also I don't think Light sources are evidences of High 4-C Star Level or whatever, cause the Sun thingy in Adeptal Realms can easily be akin to the Dainichi Mikoshi in Enkanomiya and not necessarily an Actual Star

please differentiate Adeptus realm and enkanomiya.

enkanomiya is just a plain that fell into the black sea due to the war the phanes and the second who came. Dainichi Mikosi is a tool created by Aberaku who was assisted by Istaroth.

while the Adeptus realm is the world of the Adeptus, which was created using energy from the Adeptus. it is even explained that this world is an boundless world.

so it is not impossible that the world has its own sun.

 

[Weaver261]

The problem I'm having with this crt is not about creating realms but having real stars and suns. Even the primordial one didn't create any actual stars. Primordial One used metroites, hung them in the barrier and called it sky. Although they are called stars, they are not actual stars. Imaginarium therater creation feats also iffy since it's inside a book. Same with simulanka. Also 4-A scaling for vision holders and archons is also inconsistent with the actual lore. And Elemental Energy as UES also kinda wrong since elemental energy has likely two versions. The version Dragons used before Primordial One's arrival and the version Primordial One divided the phlogiston. Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe.

4-A rating for stars needs scans for the suns and stars being real. Mind that realm being real doesn't mean stars are real too. With this logic, you can say "just becuz teyvat is real, the stars on the barrier must be real". Pretty wanky don't you think? It has to mention directly about the stars being actual stars.
Leyline flowing with elemental energy and changing the world is also talking about changing just only the teyvat planet.

 

[Furina003]

The problem I'm having with this crt is not about creating realms but having real stars and suns. Even the primordial one didn't create any actual stars. Primordial One used metroites, hung them in the barrier and called it sky. Although they are called stars, they are not actual stars. Imaginarium therater creation feats also iffy since it's inside a book. Same with simulanka. Also 4-A scaling for vision holders and archons is also inconsistent with the actual lore. And Elemental Energy as UES also kinda wrong since elemental energy has likely two versions. The version Dragons used before Primordial One's arrival and the version Primordial One divided the phlogiston. Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe.

4-A rating for stars needs scans for the suns and stars being real. Mind that realm being real doesn't mean stars are real too. With this logic, you can say "just becuz teyvat is real, the stars on the barrier must be real". Pretty wanky don't you think? It has to mention directly about the stars being actual stars.
Leyline flowing with elemental energy and changing the world is also talking about changing just only the teyvat planet.

Alice, the creator of this world, stated that this world is real, this is a statement from the creator which is certainly very credible.

We are shown clearly what the Imaginarium Theater looks like and it really is a space that has stars and planets, is this still not enough?

the problem with the primordial one is that you forgot that this primordial created the human realm? human realm is not a planet, but a universe that has its own timeline.

When Childe fell into the Abyss he felt the time difference between the Abyss and Teyvat which means that the Abyss and Teyvat have their own timelines, this has met the standards for L2C area in each realm.

What's more, we shouldn't assume too quickly that the fake sky is just a dome depicting the sky, if the fake sky is just a dome depicting the sky, travelers who are decenders will already know that the Teyvat sky is fake, and in Teyvat there will be no such thing as day and night cycle.

This was also proven when event 1.2 showed a meteor shower raining down on Teyvat, it was a fragment of the constellation of Leonard who had died. Mona also explained that the stars in Teyvat were really real stars, not just words.

So in my opinion from this case it is not impossible that an archon class can get AP 4A because this does not disturb the hierarchy of gods in Teyvat, where the primordial one true god has far surpassed the archon in power.

 

[Weaver261]

Alice, the creator of this world, stated that this world is real, this is a statement from the creator which is certainly very credible.

We are shown clearly what the Imaginarium Theater looks like and it really is a space that has stars and planets, is this still not enough?

It's not enough cuz we already have an example of fake sky with meteorites acting as stars even in Teyvat which is a real place. As I said before, just because the world is interactable and real as an experience to the traveler, doesn't mean even the stars are real too since you can't interact or know anything about stars except they provide light and exist in the background. It's also not lore accurate since even Witches cannot stop the universe from dying (it mentioned that real stars are literally dying outside Teyvat). If they have the power to do so, they would have already solved the problem.

the problem with the primordial one is that you forgot that this primordial created the human realm? human realm is not a planet, but a universe that has its own timeline.

When Childe fell into the Abyss he felt the time difference between the Abyss and Teyvat which means that the Abyss and Teyvat have their own timelines, this has met the standards for L2C area in each realm.

Okay, this is kinda weird cuz to my knowledge, Light realm and human realm are the same. It was called light realm in the age of Dragons. Later, it was taken over by Primordial One, phlogiston is divided into elemental energy and make the human realm

• Also known as the realm of the elements.
  Though, much like mother nature, this realm has fallen under the dominion of humanity, it will still land humans its aid against the encroaching void.

Abyss is also not another universe with different timeline. Time just flows at different rates. We don't know much about abyss to say it has different timeline.

In those three months, the swordswoman taught Tartaglia how to pass through the Abyss unhindered, and more importantly, nurtured the ability to stir up endless havoc from within Ajax's trouble-mongering nature.

No one knew what happened within that darkness during those three months, nor would Ajax ever speak of this to anyone.

When his worried mother and sisters finally found him in that forest, only 3 days had passed in this world.

Okay, Travelers arrived into Khaenri'ah where the barrier is torn apart by the sinners. "So too did I fail to stop them from tearing away the veil of sin, ushering in a tide of divine wrath, destruction, and foolishness...". Why can you say there won't be day and night cycle? Meteorites acts as stars and sun and give light. Why do you think there won't be day and night cycle. It's not a valid counter argument.

What's more, we shouldn't assume too quickly that the fake sky is just a dome depicting the sky, if the fake sky is just a dome depicting the sky, travelers who are decenders will already know that the Teyvat sky is fake, and in Teyvat there will be no such thing as day and night cycle.

This doesn't counter anything for fake sky. It's outdated in lore. It has multiple counter arguments of fake sky in later lore. Mona's words alone can't also be used to determine the state of Teyvat. She is native to Teyvat.

This was also proven when event 1.2 showed a meteor shower raining down on Teyvat, it was a fragment of the constellation of Leonard who had died. Mona also explained that the stars in Teyvat were really real stars, not just words.

 

[FireSwordHero]

I Agree with OP. Seems legit.

 

[Furina003]

It's not enough cuz we already have an example of fake sky with meteorites acting as stars even in Teyvat which is a real place. As I said before, just because the world is interactable and real as an experience to the traveler, doesn't mean even the stars are real too since you can't interact or know anything about stars except they provide light and exist in the background. It's also not lore accurate since even Witches cannot stop the universe from dying (it mentioned that real stars are literally dying outside Teyvat). If they have the power to do so, they would have already solved the problem.

Okay, this is kinda weird cuz to my knowledge, Light realm and human realm are the same. It was called light realm in the age of Dragons. Later, it was taken over by Primordial One, phlogiston is divided into elemental energy and make the human realm

Abyss is also not another universe with different timeline. Time just flows at different rates. We don't know much about abyss to say it has different timeline.

Okay, Travelers arrived into Khaenri'ah where the barrier is torn apart by the sinners. "So too did I fail to stop them from tearing away the veil of sin, ushering in a tide of divine wrath, destruction, and foolishness...". Why can you say there won't be day and night cycle? Meteorites acts as stars and sun and give light. Why do you think there won't be day and night cycle. It's not a valid counter argument.


This doesn't counter anything for fake sky. It's outdated in lore. It has multiple counter arguments of fake sky in later lore. Mona's words alone can't also be used to determine the state of Teyvat. She is native to Teyvat.

The problem here is that we have seen what the imaginarium theater looks like and it really has the shape of a starry sky filled with planets. and it's been explained that it's real.
unless it was never shown and I immediately claimed it was real then it would be rejected

In Enkanomiya it is explained very clearly that Genshin has 3 worlds.

At first there were only 2 worlds that were in conflict with each other, but when Phanes came he created a new world between the 2 worlds which we know today as the human realm. and the human realm has its own time and you will often read that the world of the gods is above while the abyss is below. The description of the spiral abyss explains that going down into the abyss is the same as going into a universe where there is infinite darkness. So here the human realm at least has an L2C area because it has a different timeline from the abyss, which means they have their own timelines.

It was never explained that the world borders were opened by the sinners, we were also shown how travelers came to Teyvat, they were like 2 shooting stars that came down to Teyvat.

Yes, we can see for ourselves that the Teyvat sun sets and rises just like in the real world, which means that Teyvat does have its own solar system.

Mona is an astrologer and student of Barbeloth. barbeloth is a hexenzirkle which is even equated by skirk with gold or surtalogy as people who teach perfection, so mona's statement should be credible because this is her specialty.
Mona is an astrologer and student of Barbeloth. barbeloth is a hexenzirkle which is even equated by skirk with gold or surtalogy as people who teach perfection, so mona's statement should be credible because this is her specialty

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The problem I'm having with this crt is not about creating realms but having real stars and suns. Even the primordial one didn't create any actual stars. Primordial One used metroites, hung them in the barrier and called it sky. Although they are called stars, they are not actual stars. Imaginarium therater creation feats also iffy since it's inside a book. Same with simulanka. Also 4-A scaling for vision holders and archons is also inconsistent with the actual lore. And Elemental Energy as UES also kinda wrong since elemental energy has likely two versions. The version Dragons used before Primordial One's arrival and the version Primordial One divided the phlogiston. Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe.

4-A rating for stars needs scans for the suns and stars being real. Mind that realm being real doesn't mean stars are real too. With this logic, you can say "just becuz teyvat is real, the stars on the barrier must be real". Pretty wanky don't you think? It has to mention directly about the stars being actual stars.
Leyline flowing with elemental energy and changing the world is also talking about changing just only the teyvat planet.

Have been reading this thread for a while, but comparing the 4-A Dimension with a special 1 case meteorite only is a blatant association fallacy. I also don't understand why "Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe." changes anything to the UES argument, unless Im not following something

 

[Woomica]

Elemental Energy as UES also kinda wrong since elemental energy has likely two versions. The version Dragons used before Primordial One's arrival and the version Primordial One divided the phlogiston. Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe.

I dont really understand the first part, even if elemental energy is or isnt UES, the feats shown here wont scale to anyone due to being blatant reality warping and pocket dimension feats.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I dont really understand the first part, even if elemental energy is or isnt UES, the feats shown here wont scale to anyone due to being blatant reality warping and pocket dimension feats.

No, the feat does matter if Elemental Energy scales to a UES. It being RW and Pocket Dimension feats doesn't change anything, we give ratings for that

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Oh I forgot to link this in my previous message:

In order to apply to a character's capacity to harm other characters, that is their usual Attack Potency, their Creation has to be connected to their other abilities. Often that is due to a common energy system, in which the same energy used for creation is used for attacks.

 

[Woomica]

No, the feat does matter if Elemental Energy scales to a UES. It being RW and Pocket Dimension feats doesn't change anything, we give ratings for that

wallahi im finished

 

[Woomica]

Ok ill leave a probably last comment about this crt:
If you can actually prove that stars in those realms are real and that entire realms you mentioned in OP are created using Elemental Energy then i can probably find this legitimate, then youd have to establish an UES on entire verse given that Elemental Power is main basis of almost every ccharacter shown
Then id reconsider whatever is going on now. until then this is nothing but an questionable unscalable and inconsistent feat within story shown

 

[Furina003]

Have been reading this thread for a while, but comparing the 4-A Dimension with a special 1 case meteorite only is a blatant association fallacy. I also don't understand why "Again, elemental energy is only native to Teyvat planet and doesn't not applied to outside universe." changes anything to the UES argument, unless Im not following something

I think elementals can be said to be ues, because everything that happens is based on elemental power.
And as I explained before, the human realm is not a planet but can be said to be a universe, because it has its own timeline

 

[Weaver261]

The problem here is that we have seen what the imaginarium theater looks like and it really has the shape of a starry sky filled with planets. and it's been explained that it's real.
unless it was never shown and I immediately claimed it was real then it would be rejected

This is a deadlock here since we both don't have any statements of stars and planets being real or fake. So it's your job to present a legit scans stating that. It's hard to accept blindly and give a huge tier jump.

I think elementals can be said to be ues, because everything that happens is based on elemental power.
And as I explained before, the human realm is not a planet but can be said to be a universe, because it has its own timeline

In the book of sun and moon, it's describe that Primordial One covered the Teyvat planet with its egg shell.

However, Phanes, the Primordial One, used the eggshell to separate the "universe" and the "microcosm of the world."

In narwhal description,

Maybe the universe has been constantly trying to infiltrate Teyvat, or maybe a higher power created borders to protect this world.

So, the planets is covered in barrier and seperated from the universe. In natlan 5.1, we can see the outer universe beyond the barrier of fake sky. You should give legit scans that state human realm is a universe. To close the case once and for all

Of course, it's not like these things don't exert influence on our planet — they have merely been greatly weakened by a giant sky-shroud
But the relative weight of the sky-shroud over our planet is just way, way too great,
- Little Witch and the undying fire

 

[Furina003]

In the book of sun and moon, it's describe that Primordial One covered the Teyvat planet with its egg shell.

In narwhal description,

So, the planets is covered in barrier and seperated from the universe. In natlan 5.1, we can see the outer universe beyond the barrier of fake sky. You should give legit scans that state human realm is a universe. To close the case once and for all

okay I appreciate this, this is probably the biggest flaw in this thread.

but to be honest, it still confuses me, why something that has been expressed and mentioned is real, it cannot be accepted that it is real.

and why can't a world like the human world which has its own timeline be said to be a universe, the phanes are the ones who created time and universal laws in that world.

 

[Weaver261]

but to be honest, it still confuses me, why something that has been expressed and mentioned is real, it cannot be accepted that it is real.

and why can't a world like the human world which has its own timeline be said to be a universe, the phanes are the ones who created time and universal laws in that world.

Universal law here likely means world's law. It's an adjective. Not to mention loading screen described "Teyvat has its own law". Teyvat is clearly a planet. So yeah Universal law here means world's law or Teyvat's law.

relating to or done by all people or things in the world or in a particular group; applicable to all cases.

I don't see any statements of Phanes aka Primordial One creating Time. But I can agree with Low 2-C for the genshin universe including the outer universe beyond Teyvat. But that won't scale to anyone except Istaroth and Primordial One whose are likely responsible for timeline changes.

 

[Furina003]

I don't see any statements of Phanes aka Primordial One creating Time. But I can agree with Low 2-C for the genshin universe including the outer universe beyond Teyvat. But that won't scale to anyone except Istaroth and Primordial One whose are likely responsible for timeline changes.

For heavenly creating time you can read Wenut's description

 

[Weaver261]

For heavenly creating time you can read Wenut's description

There's no direct statement of Primordial One creating Time in this scan but we can assume just fine. Concept of Time here is not literal concept in metaphysical meaning.
The statement here is "In the ancient past before even the concept of time was created". Past is already part of Time. So saying in the past before concept of time doesn't exist is just nonsense. Unless the concept of time here refers to the acknowledgement of time.

 

[Shey]

please differentiate Adeptus realm and enkanomiya.

enkanomiya is just a plain that fell into the black sea due to the war the phanes and the second who came. Dainichi Mikosi is a tool created by Aberaku who was assisted by Istaroth.

while the Adeptus realm is the world of the Adeptus, which was created using energy from the Adeptus. it is even explained that this world is an boundless world.

so it is not impossible that the world has its own sun.

I didn't liken the realms, I said the Light source in the Adeptal Realms could be similar in scale to what is present within Enkanomiya merely being a bright object in the sky isn't enough evidence for it being an actual Star.

That has explained that what is in nature is something real, and you still think it is just imagination, now how can humans walk and interact with something that is only imagination? please think.

Alice firmly stated that she explored the world for real, which means the world is real/physical.

You are here as if to say that people who are able to create/destroy planets don't get planet level just because they have never done it before.

We see this plenty times in the verse, Pocket Realms manifested via Special Energy like Adeptal, Dreams, Imagination and Witch Magic.
The experience of the characters going is definitely real I'm not contending that, I'm saying these feats are only possible for the characters only within these specially Pocket realities and not something they can perform out of those planes.

 

[Furina003]

There's no direct statement of Primordial One creating Time in this scan but we can assume just fine. Concept of Time here is not literal concept in metaphysical meaning.
The statement here is "In the ancient past before even the concept of time was created". Past is already part of Time. So saying in the past before concept of time doesn't exist is just nonsense. Unless the concept of time here refers to the acknowledgement of time.

It really talks about the concept of time, because previously the concept of time didn't exist, and continues with an explanation of the gift of heaven which seems to have caused the world to be destroyed.

this leads to erosion, a law caused by time

The word ancient refers to the narrator who explains to us as players that "in ancient times the world did not have the concept of time" because it had not been created. This like someone telling us a story

there is no metaphor here

 

[Weaver261]

this leads to erosion, a law caused by time

This works fine i guess. But it's still iffy to me ngl. But we have scans of Primordial One creating weight concept, so it's acceptable. We've derailed a lot. Primordial One creating time or not isn't the purpose of 4-A thread here. Let's get back on the 4-A thing. As Woomica said, you really need a statement of these stars being real.

 

[Furina003]

This works fine i guess. But it's still iffy to me ngl. But we have scans of Primordial One creating weight concept, so it's acceptable. We've derailed a lot. Primordial One creating time or not isn't the purpose of 4-A thread here. Let's get back on the 4-A thing. As Woomica said, you really need a statement of these stars being real.

Yaaa, for now we only can for waiting for next i will up this thread again if that had everything is clear. but for me, all of this is actually clear with Alice & Traveler's statement which states that the world is real. So I want to see what the staff here thinks wrong to evaluate it, if it is rejected. This is all done, I'll accept it.

 

[FireSwordHero]

I think this is an entirely acceptable feat to include. Sure, it bumps up the verse to an entirely higher tier than before, but from what i've read + played, nothing that's mentioned in this is anything that is particularly new or distinctive.

From what we have seen in Genshin's history, the idea of people creating pocket dimensions with their power alone is nothing new to the game itself. Domains have been part of the game since day 1, the Adeptus are capable of creating their own pocket dimensions (Including the Traveler's Teapot, which contains an entire day/night cycle complete with a Sun and Moon), and the Raiden Shogun's soul/Archon exists in the pocket dimension inside her sword. This feat isn't any different from what I have mentioned before, so it would be a perfectly acceptable feat to include on the Genshin profile.

If you really wanted to be semantic about it, you could argue that the AP shown should be restricted only to the ability to manipulate Pocket Realities ( [X Tier] 4A with Pocket Reality Manipulation), but aside from the fact that I think it downplays the feat a bit too much, I would feel that having to create such a Pocket Reality should at least imply that said person should scale to at least a portion of the Pocket Reality's AP (especially if consider the possibilty that it was created overtime). I mean, the Imaginarum theater contains both stars and planets, so if anything that means that the Wizard should at least scale Star or Large Star Level or (if you REALLY want to nerf the feat) Planet/Large-Planet level since they would have to wield the power to create said stars/planets in the first place.

 

[Woomica]

I think this is an entirely acceptable feat to include. Sure, it bumps up the verse to an entirely higher tier than before, but from what i've read + played, nothing that's mentioned in this is anything that is particularly new or distinctive.

i rly hate repeating stuff i said but okay

From what we have seen in Genshin's history, the idea of people creating pocket dimensions with their power alone is nothing new to the game itself. Domains have been part of the game since day 1,

cool but who made domains and how is something we dont even know, nor do we know if they were made at once or over time (neither for adeptus realms)

the Adeptus are capable of creating their own pocket dimensions (Including the Traveler's Teapot, which contains an entire day/night cycle complete with a Sun and Moon),

it doesnt prove the sun and moon being real especially knowing that teyvat itself also has false stars sun and moon

and the Raiden Shogun's soul/Archon exists in the pocket dimension inside her sword. This feat isn't any different from what I have mentioned before, so it would be a perfectly acceptable feat to include on the Genshin profile.

no and when you think about it the moon behind her dissapears, litteraly dissapeaes as soon as traveler gets 99+ vision buff and shakes her will and its permamently gone another case of false celestial bodies inside pocket dimensions

If you really wanted to be semantic about it, you could argue that the AP shown should be restricted only to the ability to manipulate Pocket Realities ( [X Tier] 4A with Pocket Reality Manipulation), but aside from the fact that I think it downplays the feat a bit too much, I would feel that having to create such a Pocket Reality should at least imply that said person should scale to at least a portion of the Pocket Reality's AP (especially if consider the possibilty that it was created overtime). I mean, the Imaginarum theater contains both stars and planets, so if anything that means that the Wizard should at least scale Star or Large Star Level or (if you REALLY want to nerf the feat) Planet/Large-Planet level since they would have to wield the power to create said stars/planets in the first place.

as i said above, as soon as we get actual scans of sky and celestial bodies being real
and if they were made via elemental energy so on top of that having el energy as UES only then i can see these feats as legit ones.
The only feat that i may accept is imaginarium theatsr because of statement of being real fantasy and having planefs inside, but...that wont automatically make every other pocket dimension feat real one

 

[Woomica]

anyway no matter how you see it, it is too inconsistent and way too big jump considering that trourought the years combined destruction caused by wars of strongest beings only ever reached near destruction of world and that almost every feat presented by archon/god/sovereign only reaches up to 6-B here and probably 6-A with that one neuvi calc

 

[Saqphire]

anyway no matter how you see it, it is too inconsistent and way too big jump considering that trourought the years combined destruction caused by wars of strongest beings only ever reached near destruction of world and that almost every feat presented by archon/god/sovereign only reaches up to 6-B here and probably 6-A with that one neuvi calc

AP and joules =/= DC and Range, this is literally stated in the wiki (and is entailed as an AOE fallacy) and saying "this is just too big of a jump cuz they used to be island level" is just straight up incredulity, this is the same type of incredulity we saw when people were discussing Saitama's Serious Squared feat with Garou (as previously Saitama didn't have feats of that caliber and his power jump was also extremely large, I believe he was like not even star level before it or sum).

And the other arguments arguing against the UES arguments by Garrixian that are saying "this means everyone will be 4-A" or "they created those realms but their DC isn't even Tier 5 level" are either falling under slippery slope fallacies or just blatantly going against how an UES works when it comes to creation, and "everyone being 4-A" has no bearing to the argument's validity at hand, why would that matter or be such a big deal that it was the case . I literally asked the main supporters of the verse if we could prove there was an UES involved in these realms, would they qualify, and they said yes. Garrixian came in clutch with that in response, and furthermore; it's kinda just his and other staff member's opinions that matter here since he and they are admins and have the final say

 

[Furina003]

I think this is an entirely acceptable feat to include. Sure, it bumps up the verse to an entirely higher tier than before, but from what i've read + played, nothing that's mentioned in this is anything that is particularly new or distinctive.

From what we have seen in Genshin's history, the idea of people creating pocket dimensions with their power alone is nothing new to the game itself. Domains have been part of the game since day 1, the Adeptus are capable of creating their own pocket dimensions (Including the Traveler's Teapot, which contains an entire day/night cycle complete with a Sun and Moon), and the Raiden Shogun's soul/Archon exists in the pocket dimension inside her sword. This feat isn't any different from what I have mentioned before, so it would be a perfectly acceptable feat to include on the Genshin profile.

If you really wanted to be semantic about it, you could argue that the AP shown should be restricted only to the ability to manipulate Pocket Realities ( [X Tier] 4A with Pocket Reality Manipulation), but aside from the fact that I think it downplays the feat a bit too much, I would feel that having to create such a Pocket Reality should at least imply that said person should scale to at least a portion of the Pocket Reality's AP (especially if consider the possibilty that it was created overtime). I mean, the Imaginarum theater contains both stars and planets, so if anything that means that the Wizard should at least scale Star or Large Star Level or (if you REALLY want to nerf the feat) Planet/Large-Planet level since they would have to wield the power to create said stars/planets in the first place.

I think this good

 

[Saqphire]

I think this is an entirely acceptable feat to include. Sure, it bumps up the verse to an entirely higher tier than before, but from what i've read + played, nothing that's mentioned in this is anything that is particularly new or distinctive.

From what we have seen in Genshin's history, the idea of people creating pocket dimensions with their power alone is nothing new to the game itself. Domains have been part of the game since day 1, the Adeptus are capable of creating their own pocket dimensions (Including the Traveler's Teapot, which contains an entire day/night cycle complete with a Sun and Moon), and the Raiden Shogun's soul/Archon exists in the pocket dimension inside her sword. This feat isn't any different from what I have mentioned before, so it would be a perfectly acceptable feat to include on the Genshin profile.

If you really wanted to be semantic about it, you could argue that the AP shown should be restricted only to the ability to manipulate Pocket Realities ( [X Tier] 4A with Pocket Reality Manipulation), but aside from the fact that I think it downplays the feat a bit too much, I would feel that having to create such a Pocket Reality should at least imply that said person should scale to at least a portion of the Pocket Reality's AP (especially if consider the possibilty that it was created overtime). I mean, the Imaginarum theater contains both stars and planets, so if anything that means that the Wizard should at least scale Star or Large Star Level or (if you REALLY want to nerf the feat) Planet/Large-Planet level since they would have to wield the power to create said stars/planets in the first place.

Yeah I couldn't have formulated my arguments better than this, well done.

To be clear, I fully agree

 

[Weaver261]

Before continuing the thread, everybody here should know that the problem isn't with creating the pocket reality. The problem is taking the day night cycle as basis and saying it has a solar system. As long as we can't know whether these stars and sun are real or not, it's not good to give a huge tier jump that's way too inconsistent with current lore. I have no problem with the mages creating imaginarium theater tho...Since we still don't know how powerful these witches are.

 

[Saqphire]

Before continuing the thread, everybody here should know that the problem isn't with creating the pocket reality. The problem is taking the day night cycle as basis and saying it has a solar system. As long as we can't know whether these stars and sun are real or not, it's not good to give a huge tier jump that's way too inconsistent with current lore. I have no problem with the mages creating imaginarium theater tho...Since we still don't know how powerful these witches are.

Didn't Garrixian prove those stars are real via deductive reasoning?

 

[Weaver261]

Didn't Garrixian prove those stars are real via deductive reasoning?

I don't think so...if you have proof, you could link me. Even so, we already had an example of meteorites acting as stars and sun and giving light source on the entirety of Teyvat planet. So, garrixian's claim of "The sun is real since it can give light to the entire dimension" fall flat here.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Tbh, recalling back, the UES explanation I provided sucks. I can write up a more appealing explanation or even a page for Genshin's UES. However, I'm quite overworked and lost interest in investing in this franchise. It shouldn't be hard to make one since its quite straightforward.

 

[Saqphire]

I don't think so...if you have proof, you could link me. Even so, we already had an example of meteorites acting as stars and sun and giving light source on the entirety of Teyvat planet. So, garrixian's claim of "The sun is real since it can give light to the entire dimension" fall flat here.

He said this in the CRT he linked in the first page of this one;

The Serenitea Pot is a pocket dimension created through "Waijing", and all of the materials contained in the realm is all real and tangible despite the realm itself being "fake". As we see from that section of the article, the Traveler can create furnishing materials out of resources harvested from Teyvat (which is Genshin's main world, therefore it's real). The Traveler can stand, run, and pretty much move freely around the realm and interact with the tangible matter in the realm.

Logically speaking, all of the furnishing material inside of the realm can be inferred as "tangible" and for it to interact with the Earth inside the realm, the ground has to be tangible as well. Therefore, if the Earth is tangible then the star of the realm has to be tangible as well.

Another doubt is that the "star" within the realm isn't an actual star, but rather a light source which well... I don't have much to counteract with that. Many people would juxtapose the "sun" in the realm and the light source in Enkanomiya. However, if you watch closely many parts of Enkanomiya are quite dark compared to many well-lightened places on Earth not to mention the entire territory is underground.

And not even the entirety of Enkanomiya is lightened. So we can conclude that the light source in Enkanomiya isn't entirely the same as the "sun" in the sub-space pocket dimensions, visually speaking. Logically speaking, we wouldn't consider a star that lights up a planet not to be a star which also applies to this case, where the "sun" of the realm not being the size of a star is less likely.

It'd be justified to be a real star via deductive reasoning, and the "light source" stuff would be a claim who's burden would fall on that person (as deductive reasoning already justified the initial one)

 

[Saqphire]

Tbh, recalling back, the UES explanation I provided sucks. I can write up a more appealing explanation or even a page for Genshin's UES. However, I'm quite overworked and lost interest in investing in this franchise. It shouldn't be hard to make one since its quite straightforward.

Yeah that's fine, even though your current explanation should suffice, if you can improve it then go for it

 

[GarrixianXD]

He said this in the CRT he linked in the first page of this one;

Uhm... that's irrelevant to this CRT. None of that has anything to do with the Solar System inside the theatre.

 

[Saqphire]

Uhm... that's irrelevant to this CRT. None of that has anything to do with the Solar System inside the theatre.

Oh I was arguing for the teapot ones since I interpreted his words as him agreeing to the solar system feat itself anyway by him saying he wouldn't have a problem with them creating the theatre, it'd be my bad for misreading

 

[Furina003]

Uhm... that's irrelevant to this CRT. None of that has anything to do with the Solar System inside the theatre.

So I added a little further explanation that all rights in the Genshin world are related to elemental powers.

Do you think that's not enough?

 

[Weaver261]

Oh I was arguing for the teapot ones since I interpreted his words as him agreeing to the solar system feat itself anyway by him saying he wouldn't have a problem with them creating the theatre, it'd be my bad for misreading

I can accept hexenzirkel 4-A likely rating. But scaling both vision holders and archons to 4-A is absurd to me. It's not a consistent feat. More over, I doubt the stars and sun inside teapot are real. Since everything there is based on imagination. It's not a big deal when the previous tier and current tier are close but this is a huge jump hence it needs more legit scans than deductive reasoning

 

[Woomica]

AP and joules =/= DC and Range, this is literally stated in the wiki (and is entailed as an AOE fallacy) and saying "this is just too big of a jump cuz they used to be island level" is just straight up incredulity, this is the same type of incredulity we saw when people were discussing Saitama's Serious Squared feat with Garou (as previously Saitama didn't have feats of that caliber and his power jump was also extremely large, I believe he was like not even star level before it or sum).

And the other arguments arguing against the UES arguments by Garrixian that are saying "this means everyone will be 4-A" or "they created those realms but their DC isn't even Tier 5 level" are either falling under slippery slope fallacies or just blatantly going against how an UES works when it comes to creation, and "everyone being 4-A" has no bearing to the argument's validity at hand, why would that matter or be such a big deal that it was the case . I literally asked the main supporters of the verse if we could prove there was an UES involved in these realms, would they qualify, and they said yes. Garrixian came in clutch with that in response, and furthermore; it's kinda just his and other staff member's opinions that matter here since he and they are admins and have the final say

nice arguments, one question? are ya still gonna prove the stars being real via scans or by pure assumptions? atp ill just ask garrixian to tag staff this is tiring all i ask is a proof for stars being real and i get hit with same args over and over

 

[Shey]

Adeptal realms are admittedly very small subspaces, Tubby even says building a mere city within it isn't even possible.
Madame Ping also says manifesting power in the real world and moving Mountains and Seas is far more impressive than creating Subspaces for themselves in a teapot