Undertale - Downgrades are wack

[KingNanaya]

UT threads trying not to derail themselves into other verse topics

Just proves that Under Night is the better title with Under in it

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

UT threads trying not to derail themselves into other verse topics

Strym is legit the only one who tries to does that
All the other here are either focused on the thread or using in-universe logic to debate their points
This is really problematic

 

[Dragonite007]

As I further elaborated on this point, no other attacks from MTT have more or less damage than this single leg damage, so I believe MTT should not scale.
Can you give me your input on it?

Ehhh... Nop.

In Mettaton battle the legs deal 4 to 5 in damage to Frisk and others attack too

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Ehhh... Nop.

In Mettaton battle the legs deal 4 to 5 in damage to Frisk and others attack too

One leg does 4-5 damage, Frisk's soul doesn't have the size to be damaged by all the legs!

This also applies to the legs that are much slower that swing from side to side, they do the same damage as the ones that scale to the lightning

 

[Dragonite007]

One leg does 4-5 damage

Yes, that what I said, the leg deals 4 damage, the bombs deals 4 damage, the mini Mettaton deals 4 damage

 

[KingNanaya]

Yes, that what I said, the leg deals 4 damage, the bombs deals 4 damage, the mini Mettaton deals 4 damage

I'm starting to notice a trend here...

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yes, that what I said, the leg deals 4 damage, the bombs deals 4 damage, the mini Mettaton deals 4 damage

So why did you say nope? This is what I was arguing for!
A single leg = all other attacks
so scaling mettaton to 5 legs at once is inconsistent!​

 

[Dragonite007]

So why did you say nope? This is what I was arguing for!
A single leg = all other attacks
so scaling mettaton to 5 legs at once is inconsistent!​

I think we have a communication problem. You said one thing, I understood another, and in the end no one understood anyone

 

[KingNanaya]

I think we have a communication problem. You said one thing, I understood another, and in the end no one understood anyone

just understand, in the end, none of us understand anything

 

[Greatsage13th]

...

 

[Jason_Courne]

New Frisk height just dropped, they're now 1.627 meters tall and their soul is 0.507 meters tall, decent upgrade for calculations
Makes a single Mettaton kick Building level

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

New Frisk height just dropped, they're now 1.627 meters tall and their soul is 0.507 meters tall, decent upgrade for calculations
Makes a single Mettaton kick Building level

I wonder why you didn't use that Oven but the very specifically small sink for your calculation

 

[Dragonite007]

I wonder why you didn't use that Oven but the very specifically small sink for your calculation

“specifically-regular-sized sink”

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

“specifically-regular-sized sink”

Oh so everything is just gigantic but only the sink which is convinient is regular sized?
Ovens are 30 inches in average as well and it dwarfs the sink

 

[Jason_Courne]

Oh so everything is just gigantic but only the sink which is convinient is regular sized?
Ovens are 30 inches in average as well and it dwarfs the sink

Yes most monsters are larger than humans, and the sink is the only object to be explicitly a "specifically-regular-sized sink" to Frisk (everything else is considered "too big" or "too large" for them, like Toriel's pie)

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yes most monsters are larger than humans, and the sink is the only object to be explicitly a "specifically-regular-sized sink" to Frisk (everything else is considered "too big" or "too large" for them, like Toriel's pie)

"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave

Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?

This also implies UT Toriel is far taller than DR Toriel even though they are the same character on two different realities

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave

Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?

This also implies UT Toriel is far taller than DR Toriel even though they are the same character on two different realities

Additional comment:

The sink wasn't made for Frisk
Or any humans for that matter
Either it's all regular sized
or none of it is.​

 

[Jason_Courne]

"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave

The sink is the only object noted as "specifically regular sized", which logically means everything else is NOT "regular sized"

Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?

Using the car as reference would make Papyrus ~3.5 meters tall (and that's also just assuming it's human sized and not made for monsters)
We don't actually know Kris's height

The sink wasn't made for Frisk
Or any humans for that matter​

Doesn't matter if it wasn't made for Frisk because it's still considered regular size for them

Either it's all regular sized
or none of it is.​

It's not "regular sized" for a monster, it's considered "regular sized" for Frisk, the sink is the only object noted as "regular sized"
A mini sink for a monster could just be a "regular sized" sink for humans

 

[Therefir]

162 centimeters for a literal child, nearly Kris's height, a teenager.
Changing standards we have been using for years for no good reason.

How about no? Frisk doesn't even go beyond 12.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yes most monsters are larger than humans, and the sink is the only object to be explicitly a "specifically-regular-sized sink" to Frisk (everything else is considered "too big" or "too large" for them, like Toriel's pie)

Her pie certainly is large.
..Oh, you meant real pie. Nvm.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

How about no? Frisk doesn't even go beyond 12.

Come here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/undertale-mtt-kinetic-energy-calculation.154130/

 

[Jason_Courne]

How about no? Frisk doesn't even go beyond 12.

Frisk is constantly implied to be a younger teenager (older pre-teenager), there is a lot of supplementary evidence for this (ie dating / romance / puberty), but on two seprate occasions it is heavily implied Frisk is a teenager

• Burgerpants's dialogue heavily implies Frisk is a younger teenager through his various advices and misc dialogue
• Gyftrot directly considered Frisk old enough to be a teenager

 

[StrymULTRA]

Considering what happened in the RVR, I'll be unfollowing this due to avoid other incidents.

I still completely disagree, but someone has to make the replacement for the SOUL scaling if current one becomes unusable.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Blud got ptsd from a rvr report

 

[Therefir]

• Burgerpants's dialogue heavily implies Frisk is a younger teenager through his various advices and misc dialogue

Burgerpants gives advice to Frisk so that they don't make the same mistakes he did, advice that would serve as long as they remember it.

Gyftrot directly considered Frisk old enough to be a teenager.

The teens that decorated Gyftrot are not really Frisk.

Toriel also calls them a "child" and gives then child toys, and Frisk is growing rapidly as they are surprised they no longer fit in a bed.

Since Frisk is not interested in the toys they were given, they are most likely be an older child, around pre-adolescence, which is why our current value of 137 centimeters works fine, being the average height of a 12-year old pre-teen.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Burgerpants gives advice to Frisk so that they don't make the same mistakes he did, advice that would serve as long as they remember it.

That's not really how advice works, you give advice relative to a person's age and Burgerpants's advice is that for a young teenager
He also indirectly calls Frisk a teenager a lot, like in the advice about dating he indirectly compares Frisk to himself as a younger teenager. After Frisk talks to Catty and Bratty, he indirectly compares Frisk to himself as a "naive teenager" who once listened to Catty and Bratty

The teens that decorated Gyftrot are not really Frisk.

Gyftrot was decorated by teenagers and is naturally upset about it. He distrusts Frisk for their "youthful demeaner" meaning he considers Frisk old enough to be a teenager capable of decorating him (which Frisk can do)

Toriel also calls them a "child" and gives then child toys, and Frisk is growing rapidly as they are surprised they no longer fit in a bed.

Toriel is a motherly figure and mothers will often "baby" their child despite their age.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Since Frisk is not interested in the toys they were given, they are most likely be an older child, around pre-adolescence, which is why our current value of 137 centimeters works fine, being the average height of a 12-year old pre-teen.

Also that's not the "average height" for a 12 year old, it's the low end height, the actual average is around 150 cm between both genders

Frisk is also repeatedly implied to be old enough for dating / romance in general, which is a trait typically assigned to teenagers (not pre-teens) and was considered capable of "raunchy" love letters

Realistically they should be inbetween 12 and 13, they've showcased incredible emotional intelligence / analysing the emotions of others, they're old enough to be considered a teenager, old enough to be considered romantically competent, but still are considered young compared to 19 year olds

 

[Agnaa]

I almost entirely agree with the OP.

The only part where I disagree is the Mettaton calc, since Mettaton's legs are clearly, from other pixel scaling, nowhere near 4 meters long. This would make every other character's height nonsensical. For a few examples, Frisk and Sans would be around 4 meters tall, while Papyrus would be around 6 meters tall.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I almost entirely agree with the OP.

The only part where I disagree is the Mettaton calc, since Mettaton's legs are clearly, from other pixel scaling, nowhere near 4 meters long. This would make every other character's height nonsensical. For a few examples, Frisk and Sans would be around 4 meters tall, while Papyrus would be around 6 meters tall.

Ahhhh!

Thank you so much for the input!

We consider that the legs used by MTT on the fight are bullet patterns
not his actual physical legs, but replicas made out of magic bullets
This solves for the size contradiction!

Your input approves all three points, but the MTT leg one needs to be solved for here.
We'd need to solve for one little factor
Whether or not to use the combination of multiple legs KE, or just one.​

 

[Agnaa]

Ahh okay.

In that case, I think there'd still be a bit of a scaling issue.

In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

 

[Ikelaggan]

But again, y'all yelling "OUTLIER!!!!" when in other verses we jump to even ******* MFTL out of MHS (which is a bigger gap) but now Undertale is a problem.

If this is not spite against the verse idk.

They really given y'all that Garfield treatment.

 

[ShionAH]

They really given y'all that Garfield treatment.

Not the garfield treatment

 

[Dragonite007]

In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.

All Mettaton attacks deals the same damage in the player (4, actually is 7)

 

[Agnaa]

All Mettaton attacks deals the same damage in the player (4, actually is 7)

Sure but if the leg stuff's not a physical attack done with his body, what is?

Every other attack of his I can think of is clearly not done with his limbs.

 

[Tllmbrg]

But again, y'all yelling "OUTLIER!!!!" when in other verses we jump to even ******* MFTL out of MHS (which is a bigger gap) but now Undertale is a problem.

If this is not spite against the verse idk.

The other verses are just bad

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Not the garfield treatment

It damn hurts. Look at how bambu massacred my boy.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Ahh okay.

In that case, I think there'd still be a bit of a scaling issue.

In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.

All his other attacks are done through the same way, telekinesis/danmaku, and they deal as much damage as one leg.

Could you give your input on the CGD thread so we can settle it and move on? It's just that we need before making the changes.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

The other verses are just bad

So is this wdym

 

[Agnaa]

All his other attacks are done through the same way, telekinesis/danmaku, and they deal as much damage as one leg.

Could you give your input on the CGD thread so we can settle it and move on? It's just that we need before making the changes.

Yeah, that works fine for, like, having one AP rating, but then it wouldn't scale to striking strength or durability (by default).

Which CGD thread? I see two for Undertale open right now.