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Undertale - Downgrades are wack

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
As I further elaborated on this point, no other attacks from MTT have more or less damage than this single leg damage, so I believe MTT should not scale.
Can you give me your input on it?
Click to expand...
Ehhh... Nop.

In Mettaton battle the legs deal 4 to 5 in damage to Frisk and others attack too
 
Dragonite007 said:
Ehhh... Nop.

In Mettaton battle the legs deal 4 to 5 in damage to Frisk and others attack too
Click to expand...
One leg does 4-5 damage, Frisk's soul doesn't have the size to be damaged by all the legs!

This also applies to the legs that are much slower that swing from side to side, they do the same damage as the ones that scale to the lightning
 
Jason_Courne said:
Yes most monsters are larger than humans, and the sink is the only object to be explicitly a "specifically-regular-sized sink" to Frisk (everything else is considered "too big" or "too large" for them, like Toriel's pie)
Click to expand...
"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave

Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?

This also implies UT Toriel is far taller than DR Toriel even though they are the same character on two different realities
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave

Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?

This also implies UT Toriel is far taller than DR Toriel even though they are the same character on two different realities
Click to expand...
Additional comment:

The sink wasn't made for Frisk
Or any humans for that matter
Either it's all regular sized
or none of it is.​
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
"Most monsters"?
"Everything else"?
The oven is not implied to be big
The microwave isn't either.

The narrator just states they're a oven and a microwave
Click to expand...
The sink is the only object noted as "specifically regular sized", which logically means everything else is NOT "regular sized"

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Papyrus was driving a regular car on the surface too, and supposedly he is a 2.5 meter monster while Frisk is somehow Kris sized?
Click to expand...
Using the car as reference would make Papyrus ~3.5 meters tall (and that's also just assuming it's human sized and not made for monsters)
We don't actually know Kris's height

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
The sink wasn't made for Frisk
Or any humans for that matter​
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter if it wasn't made for Frisk because it's still considered regular size for them

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Either it's all regular sized
or none of it is.​
Click to expand...
It's not "regular sized" for a monster, it's considered "regular sized" for Frisk, the sink is the only object noted as "regular sized"
A mini sink for a monster could just be a "regular sized" sink for humans
 
Last edited:
Therefir said:
How about no? Frisk doesn't even go beyond 12.
Click to expand...
Frisk is constantly implied to be a younger teenager (older pre-teenager), there is a lot of supplementary evidence for this (ie dating / romance / puberty), but on two seprate occasions it is heavily implied Frisk is a teenager
 
Considering what happened in the RVR, I'll be unfollowing this due to avoid other incidents.

I still completely disagree, but someone has to make the replacement for the SOUL scaling if current one becomes unusable.
 
Jason_Courne said:
  • Burgerpants's dialogue heavily implies Frisk is a younger teenager through his various advices and misc dialogue
Click to expand...
Burgerpants gives advice to Frisk so that they don't make the same mistakes he did, advice that would serve as long as they remember it.
Gyftrot directly considered Frisk old enough to be a teenager.
Click to expand...
The teens that decorated Gyftrot are not really Frisk.

Toriel also calls them a "child" and gives then child toys, and Frisk is growing rapidly as they are surprised they no longer fit in a bed.

Since Frisk is not interested in the toys they were given, they are most likely be an older child, around pre-adolescence, which is why our current value of 137 centimeters works fine, being the average height of a 12-year old pre-teen.
 
Last edited:
Therefir said:
Burgerpants gives advice to Frisk so that they don't make the same mistakes he did, advice that would serve as long as they remember it.
Click to expand...
That's not really how advice works, you give advice relative to a person's age and Burgerpants's advice is that for a young teenager
He also indirectly calls Frisk a teenager a lot, like in the advice about dating he indirectly compares Frisk to himself as a younger teenager. After Frisk talks to Catty and Bratty, he indirectly compares Frisk to himself as a "naive teenager" who once listened to Catty and Bratty

Therefir said:
The teens that decorated Gyftrot are not really Frisk.
Click to expand...
Gyftrot was decorated by teenagers and is naturally upset about it. He distrusts Frisk for their "youthful demeaner" meaning he considers Frisk old enough to be a teenager capable of decorating him (which Frisk can do)

Therefir said:
Toriel also calls them a "child" and gives then child toys, and Frisk is growing rapidly as they are surprised they no longer fit in a bed.
Click to expand...
Toriel is a motherly figure and mothers will often "baby" their child despite their age.
 
Therefir said:
Since Frisk is not interested in the toys they were given, they are most likely be an older child, around pre-adolescence, which is why our current value of 137 centimeters works fine, being the average height of a 12-year old pre-teen.
Click to expand...
Also that's not the "average height" for a 12 year old, it's the low end height, the actual average is around 150 cm between both genders

Frisk is also repeatedly implied to be old enough for dating / romance in general, which is a trait typically assigned to teenagers (not pre-teens) and was considered capable of "raunchy" love letters

Realistically they should be inbetween 12 and 13, they've showcased incredible emotional intelligence / analysing the emotions of others, they're old enough to be considered a teenager, old enough to be considered romantically competent, but still are considered young compared to 19 year olds
 
I almost entirely agree with the OP.

The only part where I disagree is the Mettaton calc, since Mettaton's legs are clearly, from other pixel scaling, nowhere near 4 meters long. This would make every other character's height nonsensical. For a few examples, Frisk and Sans would be around 4 meters tall, while Papyrus would be around 6 meters tall.
 
Agnaa said:
I almost entirely agree with the OP.

The only part where I disagree is the Mettaton calc, since Mettaton's legs are clearly, from other pixel scaling, nowhere near 4 meters long. This would make every other character's height nonsensical. For a few examples, Frisk and Sans would be around 4 meters tall, while Papyrus would be around 6 meters tall.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh!

Thank you so much for the input!

We consider that the legs used by MTT on the fight are bullet patterns
not his actual physical legs, but replicas made out of magic bullets
This solves for the size contradiction!

Your input approves all three points, but the MTT leg one needs to be solved for here.
We'd need to solve for one little factor
Whether or not to use the combination of multiple legs KE, or just one.​
 
Ahh okay.

In that case, I think there'd still be a bit of a scaling issue.

In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.
 
StrymULTRA said:
But again, y'all yelling "OUTLIER!!!!" when in other verses we jump to even ******* MFTL out of MHS (which is a bigger gap) but now Undertale is a problem.

If this is not spite against the verse idk.
Click to expand...
They really given y'all that Garfield treatment.
 
Agnaa said:
In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.
Click to expand...
All Mettaton attacks deals the same damage in the player (4, actually is 7)
 
Dragonite007 said:
All Mettaton attacks deals the same damage in the player (4, actually is 7)
Click to expand...
Sure but if the leg stuff's not a physical attack done with his body, what is?

Every other attack of his I can think of is clearly not done with his limbs.
 
Agnaa said:
Ahh okay.

In that case, I think there'd still be a bit of a scaling issue.

In, like, that wouldn't be his actual striking strength or normal lifting strength, it'd be something that he just achieves through telekinesis. So it may need to get a separate rating.

Unless Undertale has a reason to scale everything to everything that slips my mind rn.
Click to expand...
All his other attacks are done through the same way, telekinesis/danmaku, and they deal as much damage as one leg.

Could you give your input on the CGD thread so we can settle it and move on? It's just that we need before making the changes.
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
All his other attacks are done through the same way, telekinesis/danmaku, and they deal as much damage as one leg.

Could you give your input on the CGD thread so we can settle it and move on? It's just that we need before making the changes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that works fine for, like, having one AP rating, but then it wouldn't scale to striking strength or durability (by default).

Which CGD thread? I see two for Undertale open right now.
 
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