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Personally im not seeing any real reasons on why they should be seperate cosmologies. Disagree fra
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It vastly depends on where that is from.Sticking true to dragon balls roots is not proof for a shared cosmology this is just them explaining on how they made filler that would fit into the dragon ball story.
Agree with thisEven in a guide book, the suguroku space is also mentioned, which is something that was introduced in GT.
"side stories" and "spin off" are very different things.The argument is that it hinges on it being called a "side story" which is the equivalent of saying it's a spin off or derivative
you're massively strawmanning the point, man. That was never anyone's argument. What matters is what the wall says.GT being up on a wall celebrating the history of Dragon Ball doesn't mean that GT is canon to Dragon Ball. It's still a part of the franchise even if it isn't canon.
This is actually wrong, because they had already dropped Battle of GodsThis press release is dated to 2012, which was before Dragon Ball Super. During that period of time, GT was being treated as a canonical continuation of DBZ (but there was no involvement from Toriyama). Back in those days many people argued it wasn't canon even before DBS because of the lack of involvement from the original author.
Which guide does this come from? I think if it's something like, say, Daizenshuu, it'd be a lot stronger evidence than say, some video game guide. (Though those often are consistent with the cosmology as well, like the one that broke down Otherworld.)Even in a guide book, the suguroku space is also mentioned, which is something that was introduced in GT.
ChozenshuuWhich guide does this come from? I think if it's something like, say, Daizenshuu, it'd be a lot stronger evidence than say, some video game guide. (Though those often are consistent with the cosmology as well, like the one that broke down Otherworld.)
That's from Chozenshuu 4 (basically an updated Daizenshuu), we've already used it in past cosmology revisionsWhich guide does this come from? I think if it's something like, say, Daizenshuu, it'd be a lot stronger evidence than say, some video game guide. (Though those often are consistent with the cosmology as well, like the one that broke down Otherworld.)
Nah, nah, Nekomajin is canon, too.Don't see how it doesn't just blanket it to refer to any usage of these spaces and still not necessarily an indication of GT and Super existing within exact MWI multiverse
Well I guess I’m back from my VSBW break
This scan from the daizenshuu literally tells us it’s a future world and alternate history in relation to the Anime and Original Work (Manga) I don’t understand how Future World and Alternate History being used isn’t sufficient for an alternate timeline
this along with the other statements
Some of the movies are even called parallel worlds (which are what timelines are literally called) and different worlds which matches up with what’s said on the toei website and with what Toriyama said Arale being aware of the existence of GT is also proof of that
This post from Pineapple shows us timelines being called different worlds, parallel worlds, and different histories.
I think there are valid points that should be addressedThat's a really shallow nitpick of a minor wording choice by the translator, "could say" can also be meant in the sense that it's actually able to be taken that way.
Anyway, in the raw version, the statement's "平行世界的な出来事といえる "which is "can be said it's events of a parallel world." The phrase といえる means moreso "can be said" in the sense of being able to do so, not really in a speculative sense, especially given the context here.
といえる (examples)
And I'm pretty sure Toeiverse is considered canon to all the movies, even if the vice versa isn't always true (i.e. Movie 8 LSSJ Broly is it's own dimension and not part of Toeiverse, but the vice versa up to that point is true).
dude, it was decided in another thread that the wall is not usable since it is saying that gt is in the same timeline as dbs as the future of it, you would be better dropping this point and focusing on the other pointsyou're massively strawmanning the point, man. That was never anyone's argument. What matters is what the wall says.
Different contexts. This is a side story that actually gives information to the existing story. The other "side stories" do not take place within the continuity but instead tell a completely different story.
here's your side story bro (non canon cause you can't prove it's the same cosmology btw)
Doing alot of extrapolating- assuming there buddy. Can you prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that this side story happened exactly in this matter? Otherwise, there just isn't enough evidence to convince me.Different contexts. This is a side story that actually gives information to the existing story. The other "side stories" do not take place within the continuity but instead tell a completely different story.
It's a manga written by Akira Toriyama which takes place in Trunks future timeline and is published IN THE DRAGON BALL MANGA. Entirely separate context. This isn't the gotcha moment you were hoping for.Doing alot of extrapolating- assuming there buddy. Can you prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that this side story happened exactly in this matter? Otherwise, there just isn't enough evidence to convince me.
Side stories that were verbatim stated and implied to take place in an alternate timeline.Different contexts. This is a side story that actually gives information to the existing story. The other "side stories" do not take place within the continuity but instead tell a completely different story.
The section it's from is literally just the updated revised modern version of Daizenshuu "worldview" segment, which is clearly about the canon world. It's talking about the fact the Sugoroku Space and RoSaT are confirmed to exist within what's this canon location (space between dimensions), meaning the Sugoroku Space's canon.Don't see how it doesn't just blanket it to refer to any usage of these spaces and still not necessarily an indication of GT and Super existing within exact MWI multiverse
Akira Toriyama? You mean that one audience member? What about him?It's a manga written by Akira Toriyama which takes place in Trunks future timeline and is published IN THE DRAGON BALL MANGA. Entirely separate context. This isn't the gotcha moment you were hoping for.
I'm not gonna entertain your snide remarks.Akira Toriyama? You mean that one audience member? What about him?
Several films are inherently reliant on canon, though? Dead Zone (Original DB Series), both the Cooler Films (Namek Saga), Super 13 (Android Saga), Bojack (Cell Saga), and Fusion Reborn (Buu Saga). With other films, like Lord Slug's, make blatant mentions to canon events-Such as Frieza and the Legend of the SSJ, and even the previous film, Tree of Might (via both through King Kai's exposition and Lord Slug's mind reading), and there's the initial Broly film, (which the other 2 Broly films directly follow/are at least retroactively canon), makes a direct reference to a Cosmological Fact in the Daizenshuu/Chouzenshuu (The South Quadrant of the Universe). Mind you, when pointed out in this way, this makes at least like 11 if the films have direct references to cosmology (that parallel canon's cosmology) or canon events (that strongly implies the cosmology is the same as those canon events are about).Different contexts. This is a side story that actually gives information to the existing story. The other "side stories" do not take place within the continuity but instead tell a completely different story.
do or don't. the euphrates river will dry up before some of these mods ever switch their stance on a DB downgrade thread no matter what evidence is presented, and the sun shall rise from the west the day maverick provides something beyond a 'I agree FRA' in a DB downgrade thread.I'm not gonna entertain your snide remarks.
This is what I'm talking about, "side story" is something that IS happening alongside the main plot in the same fictional world, it's something completely different from a spin off.
here's your side story bro (non canon cause you can't prove it's the same cosmology btw)
you talking in general or dbs anime/manga?Does the DB anime and manga use the same cosmology?
Spitdo or don't. the euphrates river will dry up before some of these mods ever switch their stance on a DB downgrade thread no matter what evidence is presented, and the sun shall rise from the west the day maverick provides something beyond a 'I agree FRA' in a DB downgrade thread.
If possible answer in general and for DBSyou talking in general or dbs anime/manga?
I mean they have the same cosmological structure but if you’re referring to canonicity like if they’re MWI timelinesIf possible answer in general and for DBS
Well I guess I’m back from my VSBW break
This scan from the daizenshuu literally tells us it’s a future world and alternate history in relation to the Anime and Original Work (Manga) I don’t understand how Future World and Alternate History being used isn’t sufficient for an alternate timeline
this along with the other statements
Some of the movies are even called parallel worlds (which are what timelines are literally called) and different worlds which matches up with what’s said on the toei website and with what Toriyama said Arale being aware of the existence of GT is also proof of that
This post from Pineapple shows us timelines being called different worlds, parallel worlds, and different histories.
That's a really shallow nitpick of a minor wording choice by the translator, "could say" can also be meant in the sense that it's actually able to be taken that way.
Anyway, in the raw version, the statement's "平行世界的な出来事といえる "which is "can be said it's events of a parallel world." The phrase といえる means moreso "can be said" in the sense of being able to do so, not really in a speculative sense, especially given the context here.
といえる (examples)
And I'm pretty sure Toeiverse is considered canon to all the movies, even if the vice versa isn't always true (i.e. Movie 8 LSSJ Broly is it's own dimension and not part of Toeiverse, but the vice versa up to that point is true).
They do.Does the DB anime and manga use the same cosmology?
Kinda. The cosmology was first made by Toriyama for the anime as Toei needed more content for the filler sections in the Otherworld sections, that is when Toriyama came up with various locations and places for the Otherworld and the lore for the Kais. After he did that, he made mentions of those additions in the manga. When the Daizenshuu was released, he decided to update that with the new locations he made during the Bu Arc.Does the DB anime and manga use the same cosmology?
there are statements and showings in the Anime dbz that do not exist(as in not mentioned) in the original manga, such as heaven being as big as a universe, the dimensional walls being the fabric of space time, the afterlife and kaioshin realm being separated space times, etc, for the manga there is also stuff that is never mentioned in the toei anime, like the 12 universes, zeno's pallace/dimension, the other Rooms of spirit and time introduced recently, the Dimension of swirling lights shown in the DBS broly movie, etc, that is about all important things said in one that is not mentioned in the other, altho the current argument is that if they should still be aplicable to one another regardless, i have not been keeping up with the current arguments enough to summarize them however, sorry for thatgeneral
For DBS.........it is weird, like, both dbs manga and anime are considered equal canon continuations of the db manga, so by all accounts, what one shows apply to the OG DB manga, which in turn applies to the other, that is how it always was on the wiki, i have not been there was this was decided, so apologies for not being able to explain things further
Ah I understand the arguments are kind of all over the place.Kinda. The cosmology was first made by Toriyama for the anime as Toei needed more content for the filler sections in the Otherworld sections, that is when Toriyama came up with various locations and places for the Otherworld and the lore for the Kais. After he did that, he made mentions of those additions in the manga. When the Daizenshuu was released, he decided to update that with the new locations he made during the Bu Arc.
Technically, it started from the general places in the manga without a lot of content, Toriyama gave his notes to Toei so they could use them in the Otherworld arc, and then he decided to mention those things in the manga.
there are statements and showings in the Anime dbz that do not exist(as in not mentioned) in the original manga, such as heaven being as big as a universe, the dimensional walls being the fabric of space time, the afterlife and kaioshin realm being separated space times, etc, for the manga there is also stuff that is never mentioned in the toei anime, like the 12 universes, zeno's pallace/dimension, the other Rooms of spirit and time introduced recently, the Dimension of swirling lights shown in the DBS broly movie, etc, that is about all important things said in one that is not mentioned in the other, altho the current argument is that if they should still be aplicable to one another regardless, i have not been keeping up with the current arguments enough to summarize them however, sorry for that
For DBS.........it is weird, like, both dbs manga and anime are considered equal canon continuations of the db manga, so by all accounts, what one shows apply to the OG DB manga, which in turn applies to the other, that is how it always was on the wiki, i have not been there was this was decided, so apologies for not being able to explain things further
the DBS manga and anime heavily differentiate both in narrative and powersAnother question, why do we treat the anime characters and same manga characters as different if they are supposed to be the same persons.
In terms of OG-Z, there was added filler in a lot of scenes that re-contextualized/changed the anime from the original manga, with GT following THOSE events with the anime movies (that are non-canon events that cannot fit in the timeline) are canon to it ("it" being GT).Another question, why do we treat the anime characters and same manga characters as different if they are supposed to be the same persons.