- 12,451
- 4,476
considering how the other 6 cosmology crts about this topic went, i strongly recomend you to do that
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Uncompositing the Dragon Ball Cosmology
- Thread starter BestMGQScalerEver
- Start date
- Status
- 6,480
- 2,482
i agree with the op tho
- 12,451
- 4,476
already dealt with in another thread of mine, that was rejected as proof since it showing dbgt as being in the same timeline as the future of dbs, which is contradictory for so many reasons, so don't use that
- 628
- 1,158
Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
- 12,451
- 4,476
btw for anyone using the shueisha panel of the timeline of db, https://vsbattles.com/threads/dbgt-...n-part-1-relax-nothing-really-changes.151069/
it was deemed as not working as evidence since it is showing dbgt as a continuation/future event in relation to super, so to anyone using it, drop it, it was rejected a couple of months ago as evidence
it was deemed as not working as evidence since it is showing dbgt as a continuation/future event in relation to super, so to anyone using it, drop it, it was rejected a couple of months ago as evidence
- 12,451
- 4,476
i don't see why toryama's statements about the movies would matter when he himself said that he has no autority about them whatsoever, and that he is but an audience member to them, gt i am neutral however
Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
- 31,574
- 28,025
Those are parallel worlds created via Time Travel. Why would GT or the movies be the same as that?
- 6,480
- 2,482
Wouldn’t you have to show that they are worlds created by time travel then?
Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
- 628
- 1,158
Please read the very end of this.
- 31,574
- 28,025
Okay... And how do we know that GT is one of those canon parallel worlds? Why can't it be a non-canon parallel world?
- 628
- 1,158
Under the Many worlds interpretation which the verse seems to operate under, there is no 'non-canon parallel world'. The possibilities are endless as written in the verse page, and the same goes for the movies.
But you could still use Arale as a solid and undeniable link, I guess
- 12,451
- 4,476
tbh, couldn't that be just a 4th wall break gag moment?
- 31,633
- 34,650
I feel like there are a lot of misunderstandings. I agree on paper that yes, there are different canons and the stories/plots are not intended to composite. However, plenty of guides that talk about the structures of the Afterlife relative to the living world and RoSaT or Realm of the Kais, all of that has been pretty consistent that Toriyama has often tried to apply those to all versions of Dragon Ball; both original Manga and various adaptations.
- 957
- 1,301
This scan's talking about timelines, not different continuities.
"Different history" isn't referring to different continuity, as far that goes History of Trunks is part of the Z Anime's continuity
(and arguably even Super since the Anime used a newly animated version of what appears to be its events), this is referring to different timelines.
- 404
- 395
I disagree with this.
"Side stories" does not refer to that, "side story" means that it exists alongside the main story.
- 13,328
- 21,295
Disagree with the OP FRA
- 3,008
- 2,266
I'm mostly just gonna watch this thread ******* explode into a hot mess (like all Dragon Ball Cosmology threads), but there is one nitpick I'd like to point out.
I don't think it would make any sense for them to put Dragon Ball GT after Dragon Ball Super if it was a celebration of the franchise. Why wouldn't they put it in order from oldest to newest? It makes no sense. There's also the fact that they make an effort to include events from the franchise with in-universe dates like a timeline. If its a celebration, it would make a lot more sense to put the actual dates the events took place in.
- 7,904
- 14,966
I don't think anyone is contesting the fact that they all have overlap. It's natural that they would, because they're within the same franchise (and by nature share a great deal of common elements). I think the issue is with assuming that any piece of cosmological information can be applied to every other work -- canon or not -- is not supported by any evidence.
By their very nature, a non-canon work is one which has incompatible differences with the main work. In merging the cosmology, one is essentially making the declaration that for whatever reason the cosmology is specifically excluded from the differences between these works that make them incompatible, i.e. the cosmology is identical across all works despite the differences that render some canon and others not, even when we don't have a good reason to believe that.
- 628
- 1,158
This is quite literally, all you need.
Sinec the author describes non canon work (GT/movies) as parallel worlds, and we learn that these parallel worlds exist in Super and follow the many worlds interpretation, there is no reason for a composite cosmology to not exist and so I disagree with the OP.
All the other evidence stated thus far in this thread are just the cake on top.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Nope, it isn't, because we would need concrete information to suggest this refers to GT.
- 1,733
- 697
I agree with the thread
By the way... I don't understand the argument of Shueshia's tweet
Yeah, it puts the entire franchise in chronological order. Does that mean anything? Not necessarily, they just tell you in which years the events take place, it's not like they decided to put them after Super in order to canonize it, but rather that Gt happens in years after the last chapter of Z, while Super happens in years before the last chapter of Z
That they have decided to put chronological years in GT does not tell me anything
By the way... I don't understand the argument of Shueshia's tweet
Yeah, it puts the entire franchise in chronological order. Does that mean anything? Not necessarily, they just tell you in which years the events take place, it's not like they decided to put them after Super in order to canonize it, but rather that Gt happens in years after the last chapter of Z, while Super happens in years before the last chapter of Z
That they have decided to put chronological years in GT does not tell me anything
- 628
- 1,158
Again, many worlds implies the existence of an infinite amount of different timelines, one of which can be GT.
Which is backed up by evidence from Toriyama interviews, Shueisha via adding it to the history of Dragon Ball, and Bird Studio via Arale.
By the way I'll plop this here, since it's pretty rare and I had never seen it before
- 7,904
- 14,966
Emphasis on "can."
That evidence was already discussed above. The headline is, if that's all that we have then it isn't enough.
- 628
- 1,158
I wouldn't have had to repeat it if you hadn't said that it wasn't supported by any evidence just earlier.
You should have been more transparent and just said that you don't find evidence from the author, the license holders and the show to be enough for some reason.
- 7,904
- 14,966
I feel like I was pretty transparent about this in my first comment. But yes, essentially what it comes down do is that I do not believe the evidence referenced in the OP meaningfully contributes to the conclusion that GT shares a cosmology with DBS.
- 628
- 1,158
Why do you think that all the evidence is lacking? What more do you think it needs for it to be satisfactory to you?
- 404
- 395
Wait, Toriyama himself saying that dbgt is a side story is not enough?
- 7,904
- 14,966
I really don't love the trend of being asked essentially to repeat something I already said because someone in the thread wants to continue arguing past the point of it being clear that we simply have a difference in perspective, but fine, I'll explain once again:
None of the evidence you're referring to tells us that GT or other non-canon works are one of the "alternate timelines" or alternate worlds mentioned in the canon series such that we could unify their cosmology. The timelines being referred to -- as Damage points out -- refer to branches made through time travel like the timeline where Goku died of a heart virus.
The fact that, in certain interviews or statements, GT or other non-canon works were referred to as having a "different history" or a "side story" doesn't mean they're in the same cosmology. If they were outside the DBS cosmology they'd still be side stories and still have different histories.
For a piece of information to be considered "evidence" for a specific conclusion, it needs to eliminate other possibilities. If the information being provided would be true even if the conclusion you're arguing for wasn't true then it isn't evidence. In this case, none of the evidence clashes with GT having it's own cosmology, you're just assuming it's part of the structure of alternate timelines mentioned in DBS even though there's nothing saying it is and those timelines operate differently than GT.
- 13,328
- 21,295
I take issue with this personally, I very much believe the info presented is enough for a shared cosmology and I feel like it's getting to the point where nothing will be enough, save for Toriyama stepping up and saying in bold font "Dragon Ball GT is a part of the Dragon Ball cosmology"
- 7,904
- 14,966
Is there some rule I am unaware of where the term "side story" means "shares a cosmology with?" It'd still be a side story if it didn't share a cosmology, so this information has no relevance.
- 1,426
- 3,583
I mean... from what we understand of Toriyama lingo, he seems to explicitly use the term "side-story" in the context of what he'd consider an alternate timeline.
- 31,574
- 28,025
An audience member's headcanon is not an official statement of canonicity here.
- 13,328
- 21,295
- 628
- 1,158
lmao
- 31,574
- 28,025
That is how he refers to himself here.
- 2,721
- 3,520
crazy
- 957
- 1,301
Whaattt
him being an audience member just refers to his involvement in the writing, as even the OP makes note of, he's clearly referring to the manga's cosmology there "different dimension from the story of the comic".His lack of writing involvement doesn't take away his authority to canonize them at his discretion as the creator of the franchise and authority of his work (the manga), as he does in that interview. He literally already did this with Z Bardock from the special into the manga back then (later changed to Super Bardock, but Bardock nonetheless with most story beats still lifted from the special, a character and story he didn't originally create and was an audience member to), and Broly.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Also how does what he said here mean they have a shared cosmologyI mean... from what we understand of Toriyama lingo, he seems to explicitly use the term "side-story" in the context of what he'd consider an alternate timeline.
- Status
