"Understanding of the DB world." Another reason they'd have the same cosmology is that the Anime and Manga share the cosmology diagram made by Toriyama, and as they state in that interview, they stay faithful to the original DB world with anything Anime original.
I detailed my points and why they weren't enough. I don't see why I would have the burden of proof when I addressed the so called proof for it being the same with already existing evidence..
I don't need to do that.
If you can prove it only refers to the events and never the cosmology that'd be ideal.
Can I take that as a, "there are none"?
I didn't say it's "never the cosmology" but proving that extends to the cosmology too is your burden, not mines.
Yes you really do, you have to prove the claim that they are different, which you have not done yet.
Ok cool? This is literally referring to how people at Toei had to understand DB in order to make the anime adaptation this isn't proof of a shared cosmology and is referring to the DB franchise and not cosmology. Staying faithful to source material is not grounds for being a parallel world nor does sharing traits or certain aspects of cosmology (I mean for crying out loud it's dragon ball and they want it to BE dragon ball so of course there will be large similarities).
I'm not the one making a claim. If your argument is that they should be assumed to be the same by default without evidence and anyone challenging this assumption must prove it, you'll find little reception to that as that isn't how a burden of proof works.
Instead of this endless repeat we are having right now, how about you guys discuss this new evidence that ice brought up? Repeating yourselves for 6 pages will not help, no one wants the thread to go that far now do we?
I'm not saying it's proof of a literal shared cosmology at all, but rather that they're structurally the same regardless and that it makes information from the anime valid for the manga, since the former is made to be faithful to the latter in that regard.
No, that's not how burden of proof would apply in this instance. Parallel worlds are assumed to have similar cosmologies until proven otherwise.
There's this thing (don't know if you have ever heard of it) called Occam's razor which states "the simplest explanation that will account for a circumstance or event is most likely the correct explanation." It is far more logical and simple to make the base assumption that a 2 shows in the same verse shown to have similarities in cosmology and has no differences in cosmology along with being implied to have the same cosmology by the creator of the verse is infact the same cosmology
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Just ignoring arguments now? That's really cool.
Similar cosmology is not proof they are under the same multiverse in MWI but yes MWI would imply a similar cosmology. The argument in the first place is Toei anime is not an alternate timeline.No, that's not how burden of proof would apply in this instance. Parallel worlds are assumed to have similar cosmologies until proven otherwise.
Under MWI and similar concepts of splitting timelines, branched space-times are expected to have the same cosmological construction. Quantum properties like energy, angular momentum, and electrical charge are conserved as space-times split off. Each branch follows a distinct trajectory in how quantum states evolve, but they retain a history of the past quantum states leading up to the branching event in question. When a quantum event forces timelines to split, the history of each branch is not expected to change retroactively. Each branch follows a coherent sequence of events that includes the states of quantum systems leading up to the branching event. This conservation of history is an essential aspect of MWI that maintains the integrity of each branch as it evolves independently.
Some things have to be proven, other things are assumed true until disproven. All known theories of splitting timelines would suggest a shared cosmological makeup between parallel worlds, the burden of proof actually lies on the opposition to explain the reason for alternate timelines in Dragon Ball not having a shared spatial makeup.
But it is, the arguments have been very weak so far. And you guys still have no proof the cosmologies are not the same, or that toei and gt are alternate timelines. Other than, "toriyama is headcanon".
This doesn’t address my Trunks scan still and if it applies to the DBZ manga then it’s canon to DBS anime and DBS manga the way we treat it now since we accept
Pretty sure DDM disagreed so I think we’ll need more disagrees still but can you also address my arguments?
A refusal to believe it is evidence doesn’t actually make it not evidence
That's a really shallow nitpick of a minor wording choice by the translator, "could say" can also be meant in the sense that it's actually able to be taken that way.
Ngl the evidence just isn't convincing enough
It’s pretty much just being handwaved
How convincing does it have to be? There is literally no argument against them being the same cosmology against tons of statements.
There's never anything that says it was an alternate timeline to toeiverse and since we have a statement of it being a different dimension to the manga then we use that only. Even if GT used stuff from the movies that doesn't prove alternate timelines as it's WITHIN the timeline and that GT simply adapts some of the movies into itself. It's same logic as Super anime being a continuation of the manga despite being owned by Toei since there's an actual statement to say it's a continuation from the manga.That's a really shallow nitpick of a minor wording choice by the translator, "could say" can also be meant in the sense that it's actually able to be taken that way.
Anyway, in the raw version, the statement's "平行世界的な出来事といえる "which is "can be said it's events of a parallel world." The phrase といえる means moreso "can be said" in the sense of being able to do so, not really in a speculative sense, especially given the context here.
And I'm pretty sure Toeiverse is considered canon to all the movies, even if the vice versa isn't always true (i.e. Movie 8 LSSJ Broly is it's own dimension and not part of Toeiverse, but the vice versa up to that point is true).
This is for another thread to discuss possible changes if any.
Extrapolate is just a fancy way to say assuming when we're referring to information that doesn't actually indicate what you're arguing for, and would still be valid if the opposite were true.
Sure, if that was what I was asking, but what I'm asking is what you're even uncompositing, not whatever scaling changes need to be made. No matter what, the Universe's Cosmology is the same, short the things I mentioned, all of which are irrelevant to each other.
It makes it so nothing from Toeiverse can be used for Super/Manga continuity (and vice versa) and that they don't exist within same MWI multiverse. That's literally about it. This is derailing so please stop.
The Daizenshuu proposes "it can be considered a parallel world" due to the timeline differences between it and the main story. When you consider that context, it's pretty clear it's meant to be taken as fact rather than speculation, considering the timeline differences it acknowledges and the fact it's not part of the main story it bases that idea on are regarded as fact by the Daizenshuu.
How is it derailing to ask what the CRT is trying to do? (In more specific terms than already given)?
A lot of evidence will be now inapplicable from what I can get. For example I don't think King Kai's room would scale anymore. If I'm incorrect please do tell me. Also anything referenced in Gt is also thrown away because non canon.
I already gave an adequate answer to that. I specifically haven't brought up what tiering/more specific cosmology changes would happen as that would further complicate an already controversial thread. I'm not even sure yet what specific aspects would change.
A lot of power scaling is founded on interpreting stuff. Demanding to be spoonfed everything is counterproductive and is also just an unreasonable ask
No? All that's been suggested is separating the cosmology.
