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Una-Void-able Kirby upgrades
- Thread starter Eficiente
- Start date
- Status
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I'm still neutral about that, but leaning towards agreement with Arceus0x. I'm also neutral on the tier 3 feat. I agree that it's legit. I just don't know the most accurate way to calc it. The way it's shown makes it seem 3-B, but the 3-C calc seems to have a more solid foundation
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I agree with Arceus in that the High 6-A key shouldn’t be added
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i mean no matter what you try if your clone is incomplete then it's not gonna be as powerful as the real thing. He should upscale from that, at least to 4-A, likely 2-C.
Through what i am seeing We should just add "likely 2-C" to the currently existing keys and then change the lifting strength. The only ones who need high 6-A are the fodder.
Through what i am seeing We should just add "likely 2-C" to the currently existing keys and then change the lifting strength. The only ones who need high 6-A are the fodder.
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@Eficiente
You still need to help out here. It is inconsiderate to not help us finish your own thread.
You still need to help out here. It is inconsiderate to not help us finish your own thread.
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Look on the 1st page, we've got a bunch of staff aproving the upgrades.
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Yeah, the only thing being contested is the 3-C calc to my knowledge. Everything else has been accepted and has gotten staff approval to my knowledge.
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What about the 6-A key for Kirby? Everyone agrees that it's fine for the low tiers, but even DDM says that the knowledgeable people he's talked to off wiki don't agree with it ever being a thing for Kirby.
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Okay. That is probably fine then, but which staff members have approved what?
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Starter Pack, CrimsonStarFallen, DargonGamerz and Moritzva
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Also ddm seems to be alright
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Alright. I think we should change the two current keys but we should discuss high 6-A further and argue whether or not kirby should even have that key.
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Magolor
Magolor is an alien from another reality, he acts as a supporting character & final boss during Kirby's Return to Dream Land & its remaster, later becoming an ally to Kirby & co. while still remaining evil. Seemingly innocent, overly friendly & adorable like most Kirby characters, Magolor's...
vsbattles.fandom.com
How does this look? @DragonGamerZ913 @Peptocoptr27
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Wait, why do Magolor first key get effected?Magolor
Magolor is an alien from another reality, he acts as a supporting character & final boss during Kirby's Return to Dream Land & its remaster, later becoming an ally to Kirby & co. while still remaining evil. Seemingly innocent, overly friendly & adorable like most Kirby characters, Magolor's...
How does this look? @DragonGamerZ913 @Peptocoptr27
Also why 4A, likely 3C likely 2C? shouldn't be just 3C likely 2C. Two 'likely' looks weird, anx it will be more weird where it will be in so many other page
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every 4-A post Drawcia is effected by it, at least that is what i've seen is suggested.
Magolor also harmed Kirby and Kirby harmed Crowned Magolor and tanked attacks from him so Magolor downscales in base.
About 3-C, likely 2-C, this is up to debate between anyone else who's interested in the upgrade. I just added the new tier on top of it, added links and wording, changed LS.
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There are a few minor issues here and there that would take a while to go over. My biggest one being what Lord_JJJ already brought up. Everything else can be patched up and polished later, but all in all, this looks alright. Sorry I can't provide a more in-depth anslysis. Kinda busy rn.Magolor
Magolor is an alien from another reality, he acts as a supporting character & final boss during Kirby's Return to Dream Land & its remaster, later becoming an ally to Kirby & co. while still remaining evil. Seemingly innocent, overly friendly & adorable like most Kirby characters, Magolor's...
How does this look? @DragonGamerZ913 @Peptocoptr27
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It should be “At least 4-A, likely 3-C to 2-C”
I’ll help out with the formatting when I’m home
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But Magolor wasn't scaled from either Drawcia or his crowned form feats, he was scaled from his own feat (and Return to Dream Land Magolor without the crown scaling to his crowned self will cause circular scaling)
Wasn't most people here agreed with 3-C and thd calc had get accepted? I do not see much of a reason to keep the 4A rating for post-star allies in that case, It be 4A likely 3C, Likely 2C will makes the profile somewhat messy for me
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Thank you for helping out.
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The calc was not fully accepted, only the calculation itself. The feat is under debate. Also it is likely that only Void termina would scale to it either way.
Magolor downscales from his crowned form. Heavily downscales, but still, downscales.
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16 universes I believe, so not that far above baseline
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Next time please notify us on mobile if possible. We thought you vanished
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Thank you. I appreciate it. Feel free to do so.
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Anyways Efi, the current deal is this.
We do not agree with the idea of the high 6-A key due to the point that i brought up a while ago to you:
Dark matter clone is an imperfect clone of Dark matter swordsman which is suggested even in the japanese text. We believe that the clone, due to being an actual boss and keeping up with Meta Knight for a while, should be below DMS and thus everyone should scale to
4-A, likely 2-C, not including the star allies key.
Either way it makes no sense that Kirby would have a jump from high 6-A to 4-A, likely 2-C. When it was 5-A it at least sounded reasonable but at this point it just makes no sense.
We do not agree with the idea of the high 6-A key due to the point that i brought up a while ago to you:
Dark matter clone is an imperfect clone of Dark matter swordsman which is suggested even in the japanese text. We believe that the clone, due to being an actual boss and keeping up with Meta Knight for a while, should be below DMS and thus everyone should scale to
4-A, likely 2-C, not including the star allies key.
Either way it makes no sense that Kirby would have a jump from high 6-A to 4-A, likely 2-C. When it was 5-A it at least sounded reasonable but at this point it just makes no sense.
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i mean, this makes kirbyverse the 4th highest 2-C verse on the wiki.
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- Thread starter
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I went over this earlier in the thread.
That "At most" comes out of nowhere, the rest is a mess and not how we do things, it would be "possibly 4-A to 3-C to 2-C" if added as they all go under possibly and we don't use an "or". It would be better to just be a little more patient and wait to see if the 3-C calc gets to be solid, as that possibility makes everything look better and I believe it to be the correct take on the calc.
That's not good enough, the love love stick for instance Kirby could pull it out of nowhere to beat others like MK and DDD w/ it in the tetris game.
No, Magolor did so after those events, after being very vaguely implied to have kept some of the crown's power, showing w/o it abilities he only had w/ it, after having lost to Landia w/o the crown even tho he could one-shot Landia w/ the crown. It's true that Magolor could harm Kirby in a race, but that's less worthy, and next thing we know they added in the ability to grow more powerful via positive things like friendship and team work, which Magolor felt into. Or in other words, "haha the Kirby character got stronger for pretty much no reason, what a silly verse", that does it too, Kirby one-shotting Bandana Dee isn't Kirby one-shoting a 2-C Bandana Dee.
15 or 16 universes.
Lots of things on why this is wrong.
- On its own, the English text doesn't objectively mean that Dark Matter scales to Star Dream in power, but that the latter's tech & intelligence didn't have what it takes to put in Dark Matter's true form in the clone it could make, which makes sense in terms of complexity next to the things it could clone.
- The Jap. version says that "Among the data that has been entered into Star Dream,this dark sword user boasts especially tremendous strength. Although it was cloned successfully, only part of its data has been analyzed, and its true nature[/true identity] has yet to be confirmed with certainty as of right now. ", which in contrast just says that Dark Matter is powerful while the reason for his true form not being cloned is because Star Dream only analyzed part of its data, 100% not being being "it was too powerful for Star Dream to clone".
- Star Dream also impled he would make MK fight other sword users because that's what he would desire, then saying that Dark Matter has considerable strength even for Popstar, and MK masterfully defeated him while Star Dream said that it might have been a little unsatisfactory for MK. So in orden: 1. Part of why Dark Matter was selected is because he uses a sword, 2. Dark Matter having considerable strength next to the standards of planet full of low-tiers doesn't mean much as the same could be said for a really strong low-tier, 3. MK had an easy time with him anyway.
- Even if the clone were to scale it would do so for a non-canon side mode, because they added fan service to have him in unlike in the main story. It's clearly something less significant.
- What has a regular significance are this canon portrayals of there being a gap between stuff before and after the Master Crown:
- Magolor losing against Landia w/o the crown and then one-shotting them w/ it.
- The Star Rod/Fountain of Dreams created Nightmare, the final boss of the second game. Later on to summon Nova the power of many Star Rods/Fountains of Dreams is needed for it, just to have a wish, which can imply Nova's power to be far above that of 1 Star Rod/Fountain of Dreams. Kirby needed Nova to solve a crisis he couldn't himself over the sun and moon, and defeated Nova via cheap means, whereas now in Planet Robobot he can defeat a Nova-like being narmally, the machine praising Kirby's power and the latter being able to shoot it so hard that it is sent flying backwards, power that if Kirby had before, he could have been able to stop the sun and moon from fighting himself, as the latter 2 held evenly an incoming Nova.
- It makes no sense to an absurd degree for the Master Crown to allow someone to take over the universe with many beings in it already scaling to the crown's best feat, clearly the gap in power was unthinkable to be reached and thus Magolor could take over the universe.
You hold Kirby under way higher standards of logic than what it actually operates by. Kirby is nonsense and for kids, even in other verses for kids maybe the gap jumped wouldn't have made sense as it takes itself more seriously but that's not the case here. The argument on itself is also just dogmatism and therefore not worth saying, as "the gap in power jumped is too high" only matters if you can prove it's something wrong that is happening, the gap being too high on itself isn't something wrong unless you want it to believe to be something wrong.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Yeah, like what the ****?
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Second of all, i ain't denying there's a gap in power between the series, but if there is one it ain't freaking infinity. I'd close my eyes on something like a high 6-A to 4-B tier or even 4-A, but you are suggesting that kirby jumped an infinity in power without any visible powerup. I get why DBS can get from 4-B to a 3-A/low 2-C cause they've actual special transformations and stuff, but kirby doesn't. He may grow due to friendship but not to that extent.
Also btw where the heck is it stated that Nova was summoned using 7 star roads? What?
Anyways lemme get to the next part.
Kirby did not stop the battle between the sun and the moon because Marx told him not to. Kirby is gullible, he is told that's the way and so he does it that way. There's also no indication that Kirby couldn't stop Nova in a different way, assuming he wasn't strong enough is not better than assuming that Kirby just saw the ship he used and used it to destroy the Nova without causing too much collateral damage. Otherwise we might as well argue that Kirby was too weak to just punch away Haltmann's ship. Kirby just does what's conventional to him, he always did.
But less about the unimportant part and more about the next point.
My next point is something we argued about a while ago.
Superstar Kirby should have the same AP as Superstar ultra Kirby. Kirby there killed Marx soul who absorbed all of Nova's power and became more powerful. He should scale to Nova.
Before your argument was that it shouldn't scale for being an extra story in a remake. My argument is that that is a load of barnicles because the events in the extra story about marx soul take place RIGHT after the events in Milky way wishes. This not a fight that happens in the main canon, but we see that it is a what if situation and we consider those good for scaling. I mean the entire Marvel What if series caused changes in the MCU scaling. It's a what if situation, shown later on that is considered viable for scaling.
We also have Final Fantasy with it's remakes that are considered canon over the original. Heck, even the remake of Mario and Luigi games are used over the originals. If Kirby SSU is a remake with more info and events then it should be taken over the original and placed in the same spot of the timeline as Kirby Super star which would make Kirby 4-A, likely 2-C.
Finally, on the Dark matter swordsman thing. The clone scales 100% to Mk, downscales, but still scales. He is a boss battle with decent hp. If he didn't scale he would be an enemy that MK one-shots just like any fodder. MK not being satisfied by DMC just means that the only person who can satisfy his bloodlust is someone like Galacta Knight.
The clone is incomplete, it is implied to not be the same as the original. There's no evidence to suggest that it is infinitely stronger for some reason. Previous clones made by Star Dream have already been shown to be inferior to the originals. This makes it not that different.
Also btw where the heck is it stated that Nova was summoned using 7 star roads? What?
Anyways lemme get to the next part.
Kirby did not stop the battle between the sun and the moon because Marx told him not to. Kirby is gullible, he is told that's the way and so he does it that way. There's also no indication that Kirby couldn't stop Nova in a different way, assuming he wasn't strong enough is not better than assuming that Kirby just saw the ship he used and used it to destroy the Nova without causing too much collateral damage. Otherwise we might as well argue that Kirby was too weak to just punch away Haltmann's ship. Kirby just does what's conventional to him, he always did.
But less about the unimportant part and more about the next point.
My next point is something we argued about a while ago.
Superstar Kirby should have the same AP as Superstar ultra Kirby. Kirby there killed Marx soul who absorbed all of Nova's power and became more powerful. He should scale to Nova.
Before your argument was that it shouldn't scale for being an extra story in a remake. My argument is that that is a load of barnicles because the events in the extra story about marx soul take place RIGHT after the events in Milky way wishes. This not a fight that happens in the main canon, but we see that it is a what if situation and we consider those good for scaling. I mean the entire Marvel What if series caused changes in the MCU scaling. It's a what if situation, shown later on that is considered viable for scaling.
We also have Final Fantasy with it's remakes that are considered canon over the original. Heck, even the remake of Mario and Luigi games are used over the originals. If Kirby SSU is a remake with more info and events then it should be taken over the original and placed in the same spot of the timeline as Kirby Super star which would make Kirby 4-A, likely 2-C.
Finally, on the Dark matter swordsman thing. The clone scales 100% to Mk, downscales, but still scales. He is a boss battle with decent hp. If he didn't scale he would be an enemy that MK one-shots just like any fodder. MK not being satisfied by DMC just means that the only person who can satisfy his bloodlust is someone like Galacta Knight.
The clone is incomplete, it is implied to not be the same as the original. There's no evidence to suggest that it is infinitely stronger for some reason. Previous clones made by Star Dream have already been shown to be inferior to the originals. This makes it not that different.
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