• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Type 2 Nonexistent Physiology for Monika

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm not sure for the plot erasure reasonings, but all histories/timelines erasure is indeed nowhere as good as conceptual erasure, such as erasing the idea of "you/me" or the reason why ones could exist.
I mean, Plot erasure is like yeeting out of the narrative, I don't see how that is not enough to a conceptual nonexistence
 
I mean, Plot erasure is like yeeting out of the narrative, I don't see how that is not enough to a conceptual nonexistence
I believe that too.

Or at least in my opinion, the standards shouldn't equate a narrative nonexistent to a merely being nonexist on conventional level, just because both are type 1. Being the same type doesn't mean you are equal, just like how abstract existence works, literally dependant on your feats.
 
You are not the only one.

Anyways, I very obviously agree with this. The fact that she is no longer part of anything, the game can't even register her, and the whole chr files seems enough for NEP2.

Don't be surprised if it gets rejected though.
 
You are not the only one.

Anyways, I very obviously agree with this. The fact that she is no longer part of anything, the game can't even register her, and the whole chr files seems enough for NEP2.

Don't be surprised if it gets rejected though.
i'll be happpy if it got rejected.
 
I mean, until you don't errase the file he would still exist.
The proof that Monika in game isn't NEP Monika also is this: if you try to delete her from the game before starts a new game, then the game would change
What about we deleting her files but she still existing?
 
I mean, until you don't errase the file he would still exist.
The proof that Monika in game isn't NEP Monika also is this: if you try to delete her from the game before starts a new game, then the game would change
Monika already has NEP in her profile, and she is only NEP when she gets EE'd, not at the beginning.
 
The game files aren't equatable to concepts without some backing evidence outside of "well it game, that character".
 
I mean, why not? It functions basically as a concept no?

Once they got their chr files erased, the entire history gets changed, the game can't register them aka their name is glitched, and no one remembers them. The character files are what defines them.

My memory is a bit foggy, but what's the difference between this and erasing their concept? Is it the whole "The concept of you still exists"?
 
Once they got their chr files erased, the entire history gets changed, the game can't register them aka their name is glitched, and no one remembers them. The character files are what defines them.
Exactly this, this is the evidence that it is not a merely game mechanics, the game treats it literally as a basic fundamental existence. Deleting it also yeets said characters from plot and history as domino effects.
 
I mean, why not? It functions basically as a concept no?

Once they got their chr files erased, the entire history gets changed, the game can't register them aka their name is glitched, and no one remembers them. The character files are what defines them.

My memory is a bit foggy, but what's the difference between this and erasing their concept? Is it the whole "The concept of you still exists"?
It doesn't, no. This seems like a misunderstanding of what concepts actually are. The idea of those deleted isn't gone or anything, just their data. At best you could argue that several characters implicitly forget that they exist, but then again Monika at that juncture has manipulated the **** out of said characters, even outside of her playthrough. So no, I wouldn't say its a safe assumption.

"what's the difference between this and erasing their concept? Is it the whole "The concept of you still exists"?"

This is the most comical question I think I've ever been asked.
 
It doesn't, no. This seems like a misunderstanding of what concepts actually are. The idea of those deleted isn't gone or anything, just their data. At best you could argue that several characters implicitly forget that they exist, but then again Monika at that juncture has manipulated the **** out of said characters, even outside of her playthrough. So no, I wouldn't say its a safe assumption.
She manipulated the characters, yes, but I don't remember it being stated that she made the characters forget that Sayori exist, for example, her file was erased, it does makes sense that the characters doesnt even remember her
This is the most comical question I think I've ever been asked.
Honestly, this sound a bit rude, to a game character, files can work like a concept, since, it is their more fundamental level of existence, at least it does makes sense to me and for other people, I mean, u can prove the reason that it is wrong, but I dont think that saying that the question is comical sounds good
 
These last points above me sound like Existence Erasure and Reality Warping, dunno about Conceptual.
 
Sure, but I equally don't remember it being stated she erased anybody's concepts. Fair's fair, mine is implicit.

It wasn't intended to be rude, it was phrased in such a way that was very obviously hilarious and counterintuitive. "What is the evidence that they haven't been erased? That they haven't been erased?" Surely you can grasp that. The rest of your comment can kinda just refer back to my last post so... read that.
 
These points sound like Existence Erasure and Reality Warping, dunno about Conceptual.
I mean, yes, the point is existence erasure, Monika was plot-erased by the player, she had her files deleted, but she still existed after it, and this CRT is trying to give him NEP type 2 (currently, she has type 1)
 
It doesn't, no. This seems like a misunderstanding of what concepts actually are. The idea of those deleted isn't gone or anything, just their data. At best you could argue that several characters implicitly forget that they exist, but then again Monika at that juncture has manipulated the **** out of said characters, even outside of her playthrough. So no, I wouldn't say its a safe assumption.
They are erased from the whole narrative and history from the game, so I wouldn't say only their data are gone. And like I said, it was only something like chain effects caused by Monika deleting their chr files, which makes said chr files as the very basic of existences, in my opinion.
 
No. Much like if you obliterated the mind, body, and soul of an individual in the real world, removing their files isn't conceptual erasure (or nonexistence) without some supporting text or information.

EDIT: Let me put it like this. Currently, every argument in this thread hinges on us assuming data files = concepts when this isn't the case. It is, in fact, data. This verse is a piece of metafiction that acknowledges it is a video game. It never deletes the concept, it deletes something in our world (data) because Monika is data. No concepts deleted. Just a data file. So without some other extraordinary reveal of information, I don't see any legitimate way of considering Monika a Type 2 barring blatant dishonesty. That's pretty much my final take on the subject.
 
No. Much like if you obliterated the mind, body, and soul of an individual in the real world, removing their files isn't conceptual erasure (or nonexistence) without some supporting text or information.
It is not just mind, body, or soul erasure since they are completely gone from the game, even from the main menu. I don't think it as a literal conceptual erasure, but something equate to it, like I said, their very basic fondation of existences. And, it doesn't need to be explicited as "conceptual nothingness", being completely gone on all levels is enough as per the understanding of mine.

2: Idealistic Nonexistence:
The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.
 
Last edited:
You would be completely gone if your mind body and soul were erased, yes.

Regarding your second post, you're very much cherry-picking from that text to misconstrue what it says, which is... worrying. Like read the rest of the text, real quick.
 
And they are not. There exist glitches in which the game still acknowledges they should be there. Furthermore, the files can still be restored without totally rewriting the data- there exists things they are being restored from.
 
And they are not. There exist glitches in which the game still acknowledges they should be there.
Which glitches?

Furthermore, the files can still be restored without totally rewriting the data- there exists things they are being restored from.
This doesn't debunk anything, like, being able to restore a concept after being erased doesn't make said a concept not a concept.
 
EDIT: Let me put it like this. Currently, every argument in this thread hinges on us assuming data files = concepts when this isn't the case. It is, in fact, data. This verse is a piece of metafiction that acknowledges it is a video game. It never deletes the concept, it deletes something in our world (data) because Monika is data. No concepts deleted. Just a data file. So without some other extraordinary reveal of information, I don't see any legitimate way of considering Monika a Type 2 barring blatant dishonesty. That's pretty much my final take on the subject.
Sorry, I just saw this, but to say it capped at data level just because it is a data is a dishonesty at it's finest, no offense. It's like saying a Big Bang is restricted to 4-dimensional spacetime despite it being higher dimensional is naturally possible. If we assume it works like the basic existence of the characters then I don't see not being equal to a concept.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top