Tsuna vs Luffy(Rubber man vs Fire boy)(High 7-A versions)

[CyborgSakumo]

Speed Equalized

Wano Arc Luffy vs Choice Arc Tsuna:

Luffy can start in any gear 4th form,except Tankman:

Tsuna starts with Cambio forma


Tsuna Sawada


AP:
Tsuna: 2x867 megatons , 2.13 Gigatons with X-burner

Luffy: 362 megatons in base, 1 gigaton in gear 2nd/3rd, >3 gigatons in gear 4th.

Tsuna:1(XDragonoir)

Luffy:

 

[Shadyboi0]

luffy

 

[LordGinSama]

Followed.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

niceu matchup

 

[Mickey1940]

Luffy stomps pretty hard

Both are pretty much haxless

but since Luffy starts with Gear 4, his AP and dura is both 3 Gigatons

while Tsuna's AP with his strongest attacks is 2.3 gigatons, and his dura is 867 megatons

Luffy punches him a few times and knocks him out cold

 

[LordGinSama]

Redhawk and Goken gives Luffy this match pretty easily but I'll make a much more detailed comment soon.

 

[YungManzi]

This is no bueno.

I would really like to save the Sensory Haki vs. Hyper Intuition debate for after we get it sorted out on Tsuna's page.

Which, right now I'm waiting on the move before I make any big revisions for verses I work on.

 

[LordGinSama]

Come to my wall brother and we can talk about the basics! Should be a entertaining discussion lol

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Hey guys, um ok so I think people are underestimating Tsuna by a great bit.

First, people have mentioned his durability is 867 megatons. That is false. His durability scales to his AP when using cambio forma.(His weapon).

Also, tsuna's power isn't greatly lower than Luffy's. Tsuna's cambio forma gauntlet is a punch with the power of his X-burner and he can break that out with not too much strain on himself.

So we're dealing with an AP/Dur difference of 2.13 and 3. That's not that extreme.

Also, Tsuna has multiple methods of closing that gap, or has ways of dealing with it.

Tsuna has the ability to absorb energy which allows him to gain power enough to fight evenly with characters who previously stomped him.He's also been shown capable of absorbing power from a punch from a character who previously one-shotted him.

He also posses sealing abilities which aren't AP related. He also has possesses petrification abilities which can be activated using natsu(his weapon/pet)'s scream.

This most certainly isn't a stomp.

Now regarding the Haki vs Hyper Intuition debate, from what I've seen in both series Future Sight Haki is superior to Hyper Intution as it's been shown straight up capable of seeing the future while Tsuna is only capable of predicting the opponents the opponents next move.

If I was to list out wincons they would go like this:

Luffy:

Use his superior strength(+goken) and precog to end the fight quickly

Tsuna:

Absorb luffy's energy and then use it to overwhelm him

Seal Luffy

Petrify Luffy

 

[YungManzi]

"Now regarding the Haki vs Hyper Intuition debate, from what I've seen in both series Future Sight Haki is superior to Hyper Intution as it's been shown straight up capable of seeing the future while Tsuna is only capable of predicting the opponents the opponents next move."

I'm out.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

lol

 

[Mickey1940]

Hey guys, um ok so I think people are underestimating Tsuna by a great bit.
First, people have mentioned his durability is 867 megatons. That is false. His durability scales to his AP when using cambio forma.(His weapon).

Also, tsuna's power isn't greatly lower than Luffy's. Tsuna's cambio forma gauntlet is a punch with the power of his X-burner and he can break that out with not too much strain on himself.

So we're dealing with an AP/Dur difference of 2.13 and 3. That's not that extreme.

Also, Tsuna has multiple methods of closing that gap, or has ways of dealing with it.

Tsuna has the ability to absorb energy which allows him to gain power enough to fight evenly with characters who previously stomped him.He's also been shown capable of absorbing power from a punch from a character who previously one-shotted him.

He also posses sealing abilities which aren't AP related. He also has possesses petrification abilities which can be activated using natsu(his weapon/pet)'s scream.

This most certainly isn't a stomp.

Now regarding the Haki vs Hyper Intuition debate, from what I've seen in both series Future Sight Haki is superior to Hyper Intution as it's been shown straight up capable of seeing the future while Tsuna is only capable of predicting the opponents the opponents next move.

If I was to list out wincons they would go like this:

Luffy:

Use his superior strength(+goken) and precog to end the fight quickly

Tsuna:

Absorb luffy's energy and then use it to overwhelm him

Seal Luffy

Petrify Luffy

1. Tsuna doesn't have power absorption for physical attacks. Only for Dying Will Flames

"Zero Point Breakthrough: Revised: Tsuna's own version of the Zero Point Breakthrough. The revised technique allows Tsuna to not only absorb the enemy Flames but convert the Flames into his own power."

Not punches

2. Without Mantello di Vongola Primo his dura is still 860 megatons. Since he doesn't start with it equiped (at least I don't think he does), he's gonna be at least severely damaged from Luffy's first strike. Even if he activates it later he'll be starting out at a disadvantage

3. Luffy could just... break out of the ice...?

 

[YungManzi]

>Luffy could just... break out of the ice...?

 

[LordGinSama]

Doesn't Luffy already resist ice manipulation or cold manipulation?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

So you say tsuna can't absorb a punch huh,

http://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn_370

2. Tsuna starts with using his weapon that's like saying zoro starts without his swords

3. This is a sealing technique that can only be broken by strong dying will flames, also luffy only resists the cold not ice manipulation, but regardless the essence of this technique is a sealing technique that takes the form of ice. Once Luffy's trapped inside he can't get out.

 

[GokuBold]

That punch was engulf in DWF though

 

[Mickey1940]

1. like GokuBold said, that punch was engulfed in DWF

2. well I can't argue with that. still the AP difference is quite noticable

3. why can't he just break out with his ap?

 

[Mickey1940]

>Luffy could just... break out of the ice...?

wait why can't he do that?

 

[Mickey1940]

also Gear 3 Luffy isn't baseline. He sales to Fujitora somewhat who is 1.98 gigatons, so Gear 2 would be almost 6 gigatons

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ore_Dressrosa_Feats#Fujitora.27s_Feat_Revised

 

[CyborgSakumo]

1.Ok, here's another point, here he catches a sword with no dying will flame covering it.l(Quick Explanation:All creatures have dying will flames in their body so it's just life energy. Luffy may not use it in his attacks but it's certainly in him).It's very clearly showing him absorbing the energy from his body, not just the sword.

https://images.mangafreak.net/manga...an_reborn_215/katekyo_hitman_reborn_215_3.jpg page 3

2.The technique can only be broken by strong dying will flames something luffy can't use. It's a sealing technique.

3.That feat got downgraded https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4097472 ,luffy gear 3rd and fujitora scale to baseline high-7-A. Luffy gear 4 scales to 3 gigatons.

Also the AP difference isn't even 1.5x. It would take a lot of hits, before tsuna goes down.

 

[XDragnoir]

Tsuna doesn't start in Cambio Forma, he starts with Natsu by his side, but it isn't even in character to him to stay in Cambio Forma the entire match.


With that said, Luffy has the advantage in AP and Precog, but Tsuna isn't that far behind in each of these things, and he has his sealing and petrification.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

He uses cambio forma when he's in danger evidenced by the torikabuto fight. How is it not in character for him to not use it the entire match tsuna vs byakuran and tsuna vs torikabuto(fake fight) he kept it on the whole fight.

 

[XDragnoir]

I didn't remember he used it the entire fight against Byakuran, still, they are special moves, he will only start in them if OP says he start (the same way he said Luffy starts in G4th)

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Ok, then you do realize who the OP of this match is.

Edit:Sorry for the troll, but it was just funny to me I had to troll you, no shade dude. Your cool.

 

[XDragnoir]

Anyway, Tsuna FRA, or someone can also say Tsuna stomps since Luffy has nothing special at all, also, was Yamamoto vs Zoro already made? Or Gokudera vs Usopp?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Why do people want stomps, neither of these characters stomp the other.

Luffy has greater physical strength and precog, while Tsuna has more abilities to allow him to circumvent or overcome that gap.

Also, I don't think I mentioned it so I'll mention in here, if someone wants to use goken for a luffy stomp , tsuna has a powernulling cloak so goken gets negated.

Ok, I think we'll start counting votes, as all the arguments from both sides have been heard.

 

[XDragnoir]

Luffy is above 3 gigatons in G4th, which isn't much more than Tsuna's being above 2 gigatons with CF, add power null and then Luffy can't really damage Tsuna consistently, while Tsuna can consistently win whenever he uses First Edition.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Luffy can certainly damage him ,he's physically superior and has greater precog. Saying he can't is a bit of Tsuna bias. Especially with his stronger attacks like King Kong/King Cobra. Tsuna certainly has ways to win, but the beginning of the fight will be rough for him.

 

[XDragnoir]

2 GTs to 3 GTs isn't a big difference, and Cambio Forma has power null, which will drop the power of every hit even more, and precog is useless if you can't do anything to stop what you see in the future.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, why is Tsuna 7A version being used when that same key has a likely H7A?

 

[LordGinSama]

Anyway, Tsuna FRA, or someone can also say Tsuna stomps since Luffy has nothing special at all, also, was Yamamoto vs Zoro already made? Or Gokudera vs Usopp?

Better precognition, more experience in dealing with other precognition users, the ability to evolve his Haki in mid battle, two forms of durability negation, resistance to blunt damage, fire and cold, several speed amps and much better stamina. Tsuna doesn't stomp in any way shape or form. Also precognition isn't useless especially when Luffy can see several seconds ahead of time so reacting won't be an issue.


And how does Tsuna's power null work?

 

[YungManzi]

To be clear on the mantello di primo thing. He doesn't constantly use it in battle, but that's because he instantly changes from battrle to defense mode. He can have Natsu switch from base to Mantello di Primo even far easier than Luffy can switch into any of his gears.

Punching Mantello di primo isn't a good idea, but Luffy'd also know that via precognition.


"Also, why is Tsuna 7A version being used when that same key has a likely H7A?"

This is a very good question. Why not just make it gear 4 Luffy vs Tsuna's high end for this key?

"And how does Tsuna's power null work?"

Tsuna's power null is turning things and attacks into stone (Which is also power null). Either via Natsu roaring or Mantello di Primo.

 

[Mickey1940]

1. The One Piee verse dones't exactly have chi or chakra or something, it's just Haki, which isn't a power source for people. I mean, there are plenty of characters that are high tier despite not using Haki at all (like Blackbeard). However, I'm not sure if Haki is actually life force, cause without Haki OP characters don't die or get weaker (as opposed to Ki in DBZ or chakra in Naruto). So I'm not 100% sure he can absorb Luffy's Haki

2. That's my bad then. I thought that ice sealing was just, well, ice. However, due to Luffy's Katakuri-level precog (which is significantly better than Tsuna's in my opinioin), plus his pseudo flight, there's nothing stopping him from dodging it. TBH half this fight is just gonna be these 2 guys didging most of the stuff they throw at each other anyways

3. wait then why are they High 7A in the first place? I can't find any other calcs


Also is Natsu's petrification roar or whatever it's called just gonna petrify Luffy completely? Cause if so then I'm changing my vote to Tsuna

 

[YungManzi]

DWF is just a manifestation of one's hadou (Which = life-force), to say a character doesn't have it at all is to say they aren't alive. Of course, One Piece characters don't have an equivilent of DWF, but simply being alive is enough to have Hadou. We wouldn't say people from puella magi couldn't absorb Luffy's Life Force.

"Also is Natsu's petrification roar or whatever it's called just gonna petrify Luffy completely? Cause if so then I'm changing my vote to Tsuna"

It theoretically could, Tsuna just doesn't petrify people in-character. Even though we know he could if he wanted to. Granted, it's entirely possible that he could petrify with casual attacks as well, but every just resists it (As he has been shown imbuing attacks with the harmony attribute and other flames have been shown to do so).

It's really quite ambiguous in the manga, whether or not flames are always imbued with their attribute, I mean.

 

[LordGinSama]

Luffy already has experience in dealing with Petrifying effects from both Boa and Ceaser Clown, Luffy's Haki was turned to stone instead of his hands but since this isn't in character I won't argue against it

 

[YungManzi]

Here's a gif of another Sky flame user petrifying someone.

And despite him not using it to petrify people, there's actually a feat of him negating resistance to petrification.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Hey guys, someone mentioned use Tsuna's high 7-A version, in the OP, I mentioned we were using high 7-A versions. For the purposes of this match it shouldn't matter I stated we're starting with cambio form so Tsuna is 2.13 gigatons. The only reason I used the 867 megatons, is because we don't have another calc to work with, but for simpleness's sake he would be baseline so 1 gigatons without cambio forma or x burner.He's starting with cambio forma anyway so it really shouldn't matter.

1.Just wanted to comment on the stuff LordGin said

-speed amps-luffy doesn't have any speed amps. He starts in gear 4th so there aren't any addidtional forms he has above those for speed amps. Snakeman's python is a gradual attack-speed increase, but that's about it(and it ends after the attack is finished.

-Two forms of durability negation-Tsuna has a power-nulling cloak so both of these can be countered easily

-Blunt resistance + Fire resistance: No real counterpoints to that, but it should be noted his fire resistance is only mild, and tsuna still has the ability to seal him or absorb his power to overwhelm him

-Better Stamina-That's true, but Tsuna can absorb his power to help with the issue.

2.On to the points of dodging Tsuna's sealing, he can due to better combat precog, but it should be noted it only takes a touch.

3. Tsuna doesn't petrify people in character so, it's not really relevant, but luffy doesn't have resistance to petrification on is profile(more likely because hancock's petrification doesn't work on luffy for entirely different reasons, and in the manga luffy takes out caesar, with one-shot so the petrification isn't given the time to start), so if he did try to use it, it would probably work, but this isn't bloodlusted so. It's a mute point.

 

[YungManzi]

Y'know, for the purposes of this battle, I'll agree and say Tsuna doesn't petrify people in-character...but, going over it again has sparked several questions within me.

Because thinking over it, sky flames are the only flames that haven't been shown to use their special attribute "harmonization" aka "Petrification" in normal combat (As-in, without the use of their animal box weapon). Aside from that one time Tsuna used a harmonized XX Burner to save Enma.

Like, even the earth flame (The exact opposite of it in every way) could do that.

Isn't that strange?

 

[XDragnoir]

Hey guys, someone mentioned use Tsuna's high 7-A version, in the OP, I mentioned we were using high 7-A versions. For the purposes of this match it shouldn't matter I stated we're starting with cambio form so Tsuna is 2.13 gigatons. The only reason I used the 867 megatons, is because we don't have another calc to work with, but for simpleness's sake he would be baseline so 1 gigatons without cambio forma or x burner.He's starting with cambio forma anyway so it really shouldn't matter.

His High 7A comes from being technically stronger than Hibari, who can fight Daisy who is 2x the 867 megatons feat, and this does matter even in cambio forma since CF doesn't allow him to have H7A dura and AP at the same time.

About the petrification, i think the safest assumption is that Tsuna can control his flame to not petrify his target, but it could be a effect that doesn't work in someone who has the same amount of DWF, also, isn't petrification a secondary effect anyway? DWF nullification/absorption is also a trait the Sky Flame users share.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Ok then thanks didn't know about that feat. I'll use it and add it to the op.