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Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

These scaling issues aren’t the reason why I became an opponent of the verse but they’re certainly supporting my decision atm.
 
Makoto is the weakest physically but strongest in magic
Don't know what you consumed, but don't ever do that again, is bad, seriously.
Thinking about it a little more critically, a lot of the scaling makes no sense.

Like Hibiki and her party. Why the heck were they struggling with a praying mantis monster, WHEN THEY FOUGHT SPIDER MIO, ALL SURVIVED, AND CUT OFF SOME OF HER LEGS!? Also this version of them is supposed to be stronger but they were losing to a monster lich Shiki created!?

I honestly think the author just wanted Mio and Shiki to look cool and forgot how strong Hibiki and her party are supposed to be because of that.
Yeah, everything is a mess, and the worst part is that they aren't things like gags or something similar to ignore but serious things.

To be a bit fair they could survive more so because they attacked enough to feed her hunger a bit, the legs part however indeed seem to indicate that Spider durability isn't that high.

See my point about how narratively speaking they are quite inferior to them even before the contract with Makoto?
 
See my point about how narratively speaking they are quite inferior to them even before the contract with Makoto?
For that specific chapter, yeah, but really it's just a case of inconsistency. Narratively speaking, the primary reason why Makoto is so powerful is because he's an earthling, so other earthlings should be comparable to him (At least comparable to him in chapter 1-3). Sure; Makoto's had professional and military martial arts training, but even trained fighters are still relative to other athletic humans in a fight.
So Makoto being portrayed as physically powerful enough to fight superior dragons at level 1, while Tomoki and Hibiki can't whatsoever, really makes no sense narratively; but that's what happens.

Like, taking both chapters together you'd come to the conclusion that lich Shiki can make mamonos of comparable strength to Spider Mio. Which is just preposterous.

Also; about the inconsistency with Shen being the strongest superior dragon physically: A newly revived version of Waterfall initially thought she could defeat Tomoe as long as she couldn't use Asora based on what she knew about "Shen". So Shen is likely not as powerful as Waterfall.

Edit: So yeah, Asora hax is why Shen is "invincible"
 
For that specific chapter, yeah, but really it's just a case of inconsistency. Narratively speaking, the primary reason why Makoto is so powerful is because he's an earthling, so other earthlings should be comparable to him (At least comparable to him in chapter 1-3). Sure; Makoto's had professional and military martial arts training, but even trained fighters are still relative to other athletic humans in a fight.
So Makoto being portrayed as physically powerful enough to fight superior dragons at level 1, while Tomoki and Hibiki can't whatsoever, really makes no sense narratively; but that's what happens.

Like, taking both chapters together you'd come to the conclusion that lich Shiki can make mamonos of comparable strength to Spider Mio. Which is just preposterous.

Also; about the inconsistency with Shen being the strongest superior dragon physically: A newly revived version of Waterfall initially thought she could defeat Tomoe as long as she couldn't use Asora based on what she knew about "Shen". So Shen is likely not as powerful as Waterfall.

Edit: So yeah, Asora hax is why Shen is "invincible"
Nah, they all could come from Earth but Makoto is specifically stated to be special even among them, the reasons of that are:
  • 1) The martial training he had (you haven't read the extra chapters, but his teacher was a legendary master who is apparently one of the strongest in the world and made him train with other super masters as well, though he don't actually know that much so he just had the impression that they were kinda amazing or something)
  • 2) Makoto Absurdly higher Mana that buff his physicals
  • 3) He is a Hyuman (son of two great adventurers) born in Earth that evolved to adapt to the enviroment, so he isn't even of the same species as the other two
  • 4) In the extras (again) the gods comment how originally Makoto possess one of the greatest but also more dangerous talents in all human history (the white thing inside him is part of this) but through his training he changed his own fate (literally stated by the fate sisters) and created a new talent (his bowmanship), a feat that only two persons in human story have more or less accomplished (one of them being Alexander The Great).
So Makoto is literally so special and different to the other heros that they can't really be compared at all, plus their own feats that all support how they are just outright incomparable.

Edit: Also, side note but Makoto from the beginning already was max level, the status just marked his level as 1 because he already surpassed the level limit as commented by Watcher, so that is yet another thing that show how different they are.
 
Edit: So yeah, Asora hax is why Shen is "invincible"
That make sense because Root mentioned to Sofia that she wouldn't be able to defeat Shen because she doesn't fight directly and focus more on illusions and Asura . Does Makoto being hyuman the reason he was effected with memory manipulation ?
 
That make sense because Root mentioned to Sofia that she wouldn't be able to defeat Shen because she doesn't fight directly and focus more on illusions and Asura . Does Makoto being hyuman the reason he was effected with memory manipulation ?
Potentially. But even then Humans get resistances from having lots of Maryoku like everyone else, so he should have resisted it too.

If Makoto really was beyond max level from the start, nothing she did should have worked on him. Another inconsistency.
 
The thing about him changing his fate (don't think literally), he was too weak and was predicted to die before he reach 10 or 12, what saved is meeting
Karen (lol), she is the woman that change his affinity of healing and wind into strengthening which result in him surviving (it was mentioned in one of the latest extra), so just really lucky

Yes for his talent, they mentioned everyone is born with one talent (they never mentioned what was his), Makoto just ignore his and focused on bow until it became his talent (I don't think it's something special)
(the white thing inside him is part of this)
I think the priestess vision is influenced by the Goddess, she see hymans and humans beautiful (Lime) while enemies or nonhumans as scary or ugly (just maybe)
 
Question for you guys; just to make sure we're on the same page with this, if you can undo the petrification of one power with type 3 purification, but cannot purify a stronger petrification; this counts as the stronger petrification bypassing 1 layer of resistance, right?
 
Question for you guys; just to make sure we're on the same page with this, if you can undo the petrification of one power with type 3 purification, but cannot purify a stronger petrification; this counts as the stronger petrification bypassing 1 layer of resistance, right?
I think it count as a layer if it bypass resistance, maybe she increase the effect by increasing the magic power but it still didn't effect people who resist it
 
I think it count as a layer if it bypass resistance, maybe she increase the effect by increasing the magic power but it still didn't effect people who resist it
It didn't bypass resistance though, it bypassed baseline type 3 purification. And I'm just using petrification as an example; because it's not the only power in the verse that at lower levels can be purified but cannot at higher levels; like curses and charm.
 
It didn't bypass resistance though, it bypassed baseline type 3 purification. And I'm just using petrification as an example; because it's not the only power in the verse that at lower levels can be purified but cannot at higher levels; like curses and charm.
There is another thing how could the kingdom princess create an antidote for the charm and the perfume while demons and Asura couldn't , also on the first day Tomoki was summoned it didn't effect the princess and still doesn't (maybe for the plot), Tomoki charm effected Hibiki's group except her and the priestess.
 
There is another thing how could the kingdom princess create an antidote for the charm and the perfume while demons and Asura couldn't , also on the first day Tomoki was summoned it didn't effect the princess and still doesn't (maybe for the plot), Tomoki charm effected Hibiki's group except her and the priestess.
To be fair, Tomoki's charm passively gets exponentially more powerful overtime; so it's possible it just wasn't that strong early on. Also BOS charm<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<current charm
 
To be fair, Tomoki's charm passively gets exponentially more powerful overtime; so it's possible it just wasn't that strong early on. Also BOS charm<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<current charm
Because his magic power (lv) increased, so again everything depend on magic power (I don't think that's how layers work)
 
Because his magic power (lv) increased, so again everything depend on magic power (I don't think that's how layers work)
I believe it's stated charm gets more powerful regardless, as-in, it would get more powerful even if Tomoki himself didn't get more powerful. I'd have to find the statement on that though.
 
I believe it's stated charm gets more powerful regardless, as-in, it would get more powerful even if Tomoki himself didn't get more powerful. I'd have to find the statement on that though.
I think that's true, it was able to effect Sophia lv+900 when he was lv+600 (but not that much) and had no effect on Tomoe lv+1500 or Hibiki and the priestess, IDK maybe another inconsistency?
 
I think that's true, it was able to effect Sophia lv+900 when he was lv+600 (but not that much) and had no effect on Tomoe lv+1500 or Hibiki and the priestess, IDK maybe another inconsistency?
I honestly think it didn't effect Hibiki and priestess because of divine protections + Hibiki has one of the largest mana pools in the verse, as that was one of the the things the goddess bestowed upon her.
 
I honestly think it didn't effect Hibiki and priestess because of divine protections + Hibiki has one of the largest mana pools in the verse, as that was one of the the things the goddess bestowed upon her.
Not really, her group was compared to Toa's party but less skilled
 
My bad.
when was it mentioned that she has more mana than Tomoki ?
I'd have to go through and find the statements, but basically, a lot of different people comment on how massive Hibiki's mana pool is and it's stated that while Tomoki received his charm and magic object compatibility from the goddess, Hibiki received an absurd mana pool.

Like, even when she was first summoned her mana pool far surpassed any Hyumans iirc.
 
All the heros mana pool was surpassed the people of this world, the demon king even commented about that early in the series and mentioned their size.
When exactly is early? I haven't seen that in my re-read. Actually, I don't think I've seen the demon king yet.

Also, basically Hibiki and Tomoki should also get full mana resistances in their weakest keys.
 
When exactly is early? I haven't seen that in my re-read. Actually, I don't think I've seen the demon king yet.

Also, basically Hibiki and Tomoki should also get full mana resistances in their weakest keys.
I think it was like, around the point where Tomoe and Mio destroyed a town, that early in the story, like I was even surprised myself in my second reading because of how early that scene happened compared to my memory.
 
I mean around the part where Tomoe and Mio went wild in a town/village and destroyed it, it was quite eraly in the story the scene I'm talking.
When was this? lol.

Mio and Tomoe don't really do much fighting for the first hundred chapters, besides the anti-magic fortress, the lime introduction, and off-screen fights/leveling.
By the time Mio makes her pact we're already 13 chapters in. So it couldn't be too early.

Also the wiki says Zef isn't introduced until chapter 171.
 
When was this? lol.

Mio and Tomoe don't really do much fighting for the first hundred chapters, besides the anti-magic fortress, the lime introduction, and off-screen fights/leveling.
By the time Mio makes her pact we're already 13 chapters in. So it couldn't be too early.

Also the wiki says Zef isn't introduced until chapter 171.
Thanks to mention that Mio appear in chapter 13, that made me know where I needed to begin search and just shortly after I found the scene in chapter 15:
“There is no doubt that heroes have descended on Limia and Gritonia. I can feel their magic power even when I am in this castle. It’s likely that they still don’t know how to conceal their power, and moreover, this power surpasses my own amount of magic power.”

“What?!”

“That’s not possible! Even though they have the body of a human being?!”

“They are probably from different worlds. And they are quite exceptional ones. When they learn this world’s fighting style, it will come to a situation where they will come attacking us. There is no doubt that they have obtained substantial amounts of divine protection from the Goddess.”

It must be because he was confident in his ability to use magic power, even when they had an amount of magic power that surpassed his, there was no despair in his words.

“I will reorganize the troops in the front lines. With this, I will be leaving.”

With that said, the silent 4-armed giant began moving. The lord didn’t seem to find fault in his actions. The front lines for Limia were left in his direct control by the lord himself after all.

“How reliable. But we know the whereabouts of those two and we are able to feel how much power they have, so we are still fine. The threats have increased, so we have to think about this. That is all.”

That was the only thing he said regarding the appearance of heroes. They were words that cut off the anxiety and encouraged everyone.

The generals and officials that were present were all looking at the lord in admiration.

“The problem is…”

The demon lord continues.

“There is another one that appeared and has enormous magic power.”

“A third hero, you say?!”

“No, there are 2 heroes. The ones with substantial divine protections appeared in Limia and Gritonia, there is no discrepancy in that. But…”

The lord that rarely stammers in his words was now looking perplexed. The vassals wait for his words with puzzled expressions.

“I feel like there is another one on the edge of the world.”

He could feel the fragment of magic power, but there should be no way for him to feel the magic power when the distance was from the castle that was in the north of the continent to the wastelands that were located on the edge of the world.

But he felt it. What was it?

Even the demon lord had no answer to that. That’s why he was perplexed.

“No matter the circumstances, I shouldn’t be able to feel the magic power of someone in the wastelands at the edge of the world. That’s why, it’s not certain, but I think that there is another one. An otherworlder that is not a hero.”

What kind of mission he received or his relation with the goddess…

It would be a lot easier to make countermeasures if he knew he was a hero.

If this is a plan that the Goddess has made, then it was praiseworthy.

The demon lord was grieving.

“Of course, it’s a matter that has lower importance than the heroes, but order the ones that are on a mission in the borders to investigate this fellow.”

The general that was in charge of the tactics faithfully nods. The dealings were entrusted to the undercover ops. There was a need to know how this mysterious threat would affect the plans from now on.

(Hm, but if there exists such a monster that can make me feel its power from the borders of the world and he is to stand by my side… At that time, not only the heroes, we may even be able to reach the throat of the Goddess.)

The demon lord, while arranging other matters at hand, was thinking about the mysterious existence in the wastelands that interested him.

There were two heroes on the hyuman side and there was even the Goddess as well.

‘Then it should be fine for us to have an existence that can overturn this’ is what he thought.

Misumi Makoto had attracted the attention of the centre of this world’s disturbances, the demon lord. It seems like his distresses after escaping from the people he was looking forward to meet were not going to end anytime soon.
 
“There is no doubt that heroes have descended on Limia and Gritonia. I can feel their magic power even when I am in this castle. It’s likely that they still don’t know how to conceal their power, and moreover, this power surpasses my own amount of magic power.”

“What?!”

“That’s not possible! Even though they have the body of a human being?!”

“They are probably from different worlds. And they are quite exceptional ones. When they learn this world’s fighting style, it will come to a situation where they will come attacking us. There is no doubt that they have obtained substantial amounts of divine protection from the Goddess.”
Looks like somebody should change that first appearance to chapter 15.I skimmed over this chapter when looking for it lol and legit just thought it was Io and some other unnamed generals there lol.

To be fair though, the WN does this really often and it's kind of annoying; they introduce characters really early on but don't give them names until hundreds of chapters later, so it's very easy to miss there statements and feats from before they were named.
Like the mist lizards, or how Alte is referenced all the way back in like chapter 120.
 
Looks like somebody should change that first appearance to chapter 15.I skimmed over this chapter when looking for it lol and legit just thought it was Io and some other unnamed generals there lol.

To be fair though, the WN does this really often and it's kind of annoying; they introduce characters really early on but don't give them names until hundreds of chapters later, so it's very easy to miss there statements and feats from before they were named.
Like the mist lizards, or how Alte is referenced all the way back in like chapter 120.
Io appearance is also wrong in the wiki (it say chapter 69).

I mean, say Demon Lord is like already say the character name, there are no other Demon Lord.
 
Hibiki was summoned first, Tomoki and his group kept taking drugs that increase their mana but decrease their life span, Hibiki had more mana than Tomoki (after being summoned) but he surpassed her in short time
What about his body? What is the difference in effects between administering the dosage to him and that of other hyumans?”

“There is also no problems in that. It is originally something that only reduces the lifespan of someone anyways. The other ones are also proceeding smoothly”

“I see. Then that’s good”

In his food there are elixirs mixed that accelerate his growth rate and enhance his magic power and body. I wanted to know the difference in effects between him and other people, so I had the food of all the members, aside from mine, mixed in with that elixir. I haven’t gotten their approval to do so though.

But for it to be going smoothly is good. There is the possibility that secondary effects appear immediately and make them unable to participate in battle. If that happened, it would be putting the cart before the horse. ch 65
the lv difference between Tomoki (600) and Hibiki (138)
He registered in the Adventurer Guild at his second night in coming to this world. His measured level was 98.

… He leveled up in an abnormal pace.

At first, as a hero, Tomoki was told that his objective should be Sofia. That girl, who is called the dragon killer, is level 920.

There is probably people outside stronger than her. Tomoki willfully went into battle, and the empire, no, the second princess Lily acted as his guardian and provided good support to him, accelerating his progress.

The empire concealed the hero and viewed the hero practically only for war.

Sometimes he would do a triumphal return crossing the streets, but since he had full body armor and an exaggerated helmet, most don’t actually know how he looks like.

His daily life is mostly spend in the castle. Well, it is more accurate to call the battlefield his daily life though.

“Limia’s hero is level 138 huh. Will she be able to help me out with that?”

Tomoki asked the princess who told him about the other hero, Hibiki, without any intentions of making a fool of her, but honestly asking. She is only one third of his level after all. Also, he was a bit uneasy about fighting alongside her. ch 65
the reason Tomoki charm didn't effect the priestess
(We placed an incredible burden on Chiya-chan)

Chiya is the healer. Having a high amount of magic power, she is a magician specialized in healing and support magic. Same as Wudi, she also has friendships with the spirits. Normally, the magicians that don’t take spirit magic as their specialty would be hated by spirits, so this was an uncommon case. She is friendly with not a wind one but a water one. Her maximum magic power amount is, unexpectedly, the same as Hibiki. She was almost made a sacrifice but was saved by Hibiki and the others, after that she has accompanied them and later on she officially became a member of their party. In terms of healing magic, she is Hibiki’s sensei. Of course, now that the party is in a state of total defeat, she is the one who has used the most magic power in healing and is now in a deep slumber.
ch 64
 
By the way the higher the lv the harder to increase , there is a limit for how much mana a person body can contain
“Tomoe-sama, level, 1340”

“Whaaaat?!”

I was the one that shouted. I didn’t have any plan of shouting, but I did.

Why the hell did it go up? And why is it that you are having a shocked and dissatisfied expression?

Don’t tell me that in the middle of her independent movement, she secretly spend her time hunting. The talk about warrior training was only a pretext you know?

The commotion was crazy. In an instant, people made a circle with us as the center.

“T-T-T-There is no way this is happening! I cut up that much-ja zo! I should be over 1500 right?!” (Tomoe)

“Uhm, well, please don’t shake me?!”

Tomoe shakes the body of the Onee-san back and forth. The number 1500… I see, Mio huh.

[Tomoe, stop it]

“Ah! I unintentionally lost myself… I am sorry Waka” (Tomoe)

Uah~, the face of Onee-san is dead pale. She must have thought that she could die depending on the extend of the strength. You could still see the remains of her fear.

[Mio, go finish it quickly]

“Yes~ ♪” (Mio)

“Unununununu” (Tomoe)

Maybe it was because she understood the reason of Tomoe’s smirk, Mio gave a positive response to my words and send a slight glance to Tomoe. Tomoe, even if you lift up your trembling fist, the result will not change.

The same 1600 paper was dyed in red.

“Mi-Mio-sama, level 1500-de…su”

The Onee-san read it fast and fainted. How pitiful. You have done well.

As expected, it seems that Mio has not increased her level. More like, even though I had her fight that much in the wasteland, it didn’t even raise her level by 1. Then, what did Tomoe do to level up 20 levels? ch 43
I think the reason Makoto get stronger is because his meditation technique expand his mana capacity
「It seems I have been rude about various things.」(Makoto)

「More importantly. Makoto, aren’t you coming close to death these days?」(Susanoo)

「N-no?」(Makoto)

What’s with this, all of a sudden.

「I see. Nothing like sudden headaches? Nosebleeds that won’t stop?」(Susanoo)

「… I have those.」(Makoto)

It’s from when I received power from that damn insect.

But coming close to death…

Just by thinking that, I guess it’s transmitted to them.

「… I see, that’s it. I was thinking of giving a power to you as well, but. I was wondering why you’re carrying so much power that you’re one step away from dying. Old man, can you tell?」(Susanoo) ch 169
He might die if he stop doing it
「So? What’s going on with Makoto?」(Susanoo)

「He’s close to death. In fact, it is surprising that he is not already dead. The surface tension is such that he is just barely staying alive. She is even a goddess with the power of creation; what a fool. She just pushed the “Mastery of Words’ Power” into an ordinary person.」(Daikokuten)

「Mastery of the Words’ Power?」(Makoto)

Could he be talking about the power that lets me understand language?

“Mastery” sounds pretty cool, but…

Also, it seems I really am just an ordinary person.

No wait, if I’m an ordinary person on Daikokuten-sama’s scale, I might actually be quite an amazing person.

「It is commonly known as one of the powers that grants understanding. It is a power that lets you communicate with anyone. It is a “rare” power that only a few great men hold.」(Daikokuten)

「I only asked the goddess to make me able to speak with hyumans, it is not an amazing ability like that –」(Makoto)

Ah.

Actually, the power I first got from the goddess let me communicate with everyone other than hyumans.

And then, I asked her to let me communicate with hyumans.

Which means that I can now communicate with everyone.

「I see. That girl is good at finding shortcuts. Indeed, if you remove the ability to communicate with even a single species from the “Mastery of Words’ Power”, it becomes a normal understanding ability. What an underhanded method.」(Daikokuten)

「So, what’s the deal. Is Makoto okay?」(Susanoo)

「It is best if you give up on giving him a power yourself. Makoto-dono is filled with the power of gods to his body’s limits. If I am correct, Makoto-dono, you have been increasing the capacity of your magic power?」(Daikokuten)

「Yes. I think so.」(Makoto)

「In that case, you should do that several times over. And then let us work to somehow contain this power within that soul of yours.」(Daikokuten)

「Th-thank you very much. However, it seems to have the effect of expanding Asora, so I have been refraining from doing so lately.」(Makoto)

「Susanoo, Athena and I will do work to make sure this world does not catch the eye of the goddess, so there is no need to worry about that. You can expand this world without having to worry about such things. If it becomes too much, we will make a return visit here.」(Daikokuten) ch 169
 
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Basically, Tomoki’s level 1 is not the same as a normal person’s level 1.
That's not what I meant, having lv 1 mean you have the lowest mana or the system can't measure it.
EX: 1=exist, 0=doesn't exist
Makoto lv is 1 because the system can't measure more than 65536 (16-Bit computen, google it), and once someone surpass that it will show as 1
 
I get that. I was responding to you talking about Tomoki and Hibiki’s level and saying he likely has more mana because he has a higher level, and just saying higher level doesn’t mean more mana.
 
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