Trying to make Classic Sonic great again

[Lenyo456]

eggman wants to screw the past to conquer the future?

And how would Sonic know that normally? He hardly knows about Eggman's plans until they happen, and it would be even harder for him to know that he could go back in the past using the little planet plates

time is that even in real life, what do you think a "temporal dimension" in a space time is? and considering that tails specifies that classic did time travel in generations when he went back to his time, then it is clear that he is using the term "dimension" in this sense rather than "another universe"

shadow's case doesn't involve time travel, they are natural ocuring diversions of events, not the same situation

then explain modern Silver as a whole, because he shows that when you change the past, the future changes and doesn't create other timelines

That's not my point, what I want to say is that: Timelines are not created by temporal changes, but by different events. this is what the blog itself wants to say.

since all the different timelines created in the series are made by this, and this is what happens in Sonic Mania, when Eggman finds the phantom ruby earlier than he should (Pre-forces)

My point is strengthened with Sonic Generations, where there is Stardust speedway from the bad future, although if the good ending is the canonical one, that makes the bad ending a different timeline. And even if you want to argue that this can be derived from Sonic getting all the time stones, the two endings could be a different timeline. Not necessarily changing the future, as both follow the same order of events, and that's what's important for a timeline

About Silver, that's what I said, time travel affects only with the past/future of the current timeline that you are. (not affecting Mania's for example), but by doing that he creates another timeline (again in Generations, seeing still the existence of Crisis City, even though that future shouldn't exist)

 

[Omegabronic]

And how would Sonic know that normally? He hardly knows about Eggman's plans until they happen, and it would be even harder for him to know that he could go back in the past using the little planet plates

because the future/his present would already be conquered, besides little planet allowing time travel is something that he would given the legends that it has, which is what made eggman want to go there in the first place

That's not my point, what I want to say is that: Timelines are not created by temporal changes, but by different events. this is what the blog itself wants to say.

so a simple time travel wouldn't create another timeline, which is my point

since all the different timelines created in the series are made by this, and this is what happens in Sonic Mania, when Eggman finds the phantom ruby earlier than he should (Pre-forces)

yeah, which is just how time travel works in the series, seen in Silver's travels

My point is strengthened with Sonic Generations, where there is Stardust speedway from the bad future, although if the good ending is the canonical one, that makes the bad ending a different timeline. And even if you want to argue that this can be derived from Sonic getting all the time stones, the two endings could be a different timeline. Not necessarily changing the future, as both follow the same order of events, and that's what's important for a timeline

none of this covers the point that time travels do not create other timelines

About Silver, that's what I said, time travel affects only with the past/future of the current timeline that you are. (not affecting Mania's for example)

you would need to prove that mania is another timeline when that is directly said otherwise by tails tube

 

[Lenyo456]

so a simple time travel wouldn't create another timeline, which is my point

yes, that's what we said

none of this covers the point that time travels do not create other timelines

so a simple time travel wouldn't create another timeline, which is our my point

That's not my point, what I want to say is that: Timelines are not created by temporal changes, but by different events.

and this is what happens in Sonic Mania, when Eggman finds the phantom ruby earlier than he should (Pre-forces)

----------------------------

you would need to prove that mania is another timeline when that is directly said otherwise by tails tube

I'll work on that tomorrow, because where I'm from it's almost 22 but for now, do you agree that there may be different timelines via the existence of bad future stardust speedway and Crisis City in Generations, even though those two events theoretically never happened in the original timeline, and would they need to have taken place in another timeline?


reinforcement point: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Many-Worlds_Project

 

[Omegabronic]

yes, that's what we said

therefore classic would still be Sonic's past.....you know, like it is stated to be?

----------------------------

eggman has always found the ruby in the past, it was a different timeline by the time of forces, so this is just a simple contradiction due to the recent retcons, marvel does it all the time, the recent material takes priority

I'll work on that tomorrow, because where I'm from it's almost 22 but for now, do you agree that there may be different timelines via the existence of bad future stardust speedway and Crisis City in Generations, even though those two events theoretically never happened in the original timeline, and would they need to have taken place in another timeline?

crisis city is a sepcial case of a timeline that ceased to exist completely, so it doesn't follow your logic here, and the Bad future? well, nothing is to say that sonic didn't fought metal in bad future just to get the last time stone after to stop eggman's plans, so still doesn't help your case at all, we are never told how timelines are made

reinforcement point: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/Many-Worlds_Project

the blog was never implemented or made a thread to be accepted, so please stop using it

 

[MysticMania]

Both Ian and TailsTube line up, both saying that classic Sonic is modern Sonic, but younger. From the past. Sonic Forces can't even decide on which infinite backstory is the correct one, and also says that a (then) 15 year old has been around for decades. So to be honest, I just think that games' information is outweighed by a lot of things aiming in the other direction, as well as Forces itself not being fully reliable, lore-wise.

Using Ian Flynn for this is ironic because the man can't stay consistent for shit and he has said certain stuff are non canon in his podcast but gets contradicted and concedes to higher authority.

 

[Fireld]

Sonic Forces can't even decide on which infinite backstory is the correct one, and also says that a (then) 15 year old has been around for decades.

What problem did his backstory have again? The decades thing was a translation error.

 

[MysticMania]

One level of the game mentions him being born/created in a lab, as if he's an artificial being. I believe that an early script of Forces mentions this. Sonic Forces: Rise of Infinite and Episode Shadow in Forces both say Infinite's a mercenary of some kind, that comes across Dr.Eggman.

 

[Fireld]

That's what Tails assumed when they went to the Egg Fortress, but he doesn't know everything about Infinite backround so it's not a new backstory. All the info he got from the Chemical Plant was the PHR's powers & that Infinite had the final prototype in him. That lab with the tubes in Forces is the same one in Episode Shadow.

 

[MysticMania]

Tails and Amy both say Infinite was created, "built", by Dr.Eggman. There's not any reason to doubt them, really.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I don't have much of a comment on the OP's proposal, but I do have a related question since the topic has come up.

I wasn't considering too much, but he is able to react against and withstand blows Egg dragoon (which is M!FTL and low 2-C)

There are multiple instances in Generations and Forces that depict them as relative. Classic Sonic defeating foes like the Egg Dragoon and putting a similar amount of work to defeat the Death Egg Robot with the Rookie and Modern Sonic in Forces do give him him multiple Low 2-C feats based on the profiles.

What are the current reasons to reject him scaling to these feats? I ask this as someone who is unfamiliar with the wiki's reasons, not to say we should scale him with Low 2-C. Furthermore, if there are reasons we don't scale Classic Sonic to these feats and aren't splitting Classic Sonic from Mania Sonic, there should be a note on his profile explaining why he doesn't scale to avoid this confusion.

 

[Omegabronic]

I don't have much of a comment on the OP's proposal, but I do have a related question since the topic has come up.

There are multiple instances in Generations and Forces that depict them as relative. Classic Sonic defeating foes like the Egg Dragoon and putting a similar amount of work to defeat the Death Egg Robot with the Rookie and Modern Sonic in Forces do give him him multiple Low 2-C feats based on the profiles.

What are the current reasons to reject him scaling to these feats? I ask this as someone who is unfamiliar with the wiki's reasons, not to say we should scale him with Low 2-C. Furthermore, if there are reasons we don't scale Classic Sonic to these feats and aren't splitting Classic Sonic from Mania Sonic, there should be a note on his profile explaining why he doesn't scale to avoid this confusion.

There is sandboxes about it being made, this is a work in progress but it will be tackled in the future

 

[MysticMania]

I do agree with him scaling to the others. I feel past = present in Sonic, stat wise, but that's different than what VS Battles buys """officially""", if that word makes sense there.

 

[Nierre]

bump

 

[Prime2024]

I think most of us know that the current profile of classic Sonic, his base scale to low 4-C for defeating those who have a chaos emerald

I was wondering is there any proof that those who have a choes emerald are using the full power of the emerald ?

 

[Lenyo456]

I was wondering is there any proof that those who have a choes emerald are using the full power of the emerald ?

Well, it was agreed on a Thread (which I won't remember now)