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Truth Seeking Balls Electric Boogaloo

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Damage3245 said:
I think there's a limit to how many abilities we can throw onto a character just because we think they make sense without being confirmed.

Saying that Naruto and Madara could destroy and create dimensions on their profiles... yeah, I don't think that's a good thing to add.
Click to expand...
That is not what is being said though. The TSBs would get the properties of space-time manip but their size certainly stops them from being capable of creating and destroying dimensions.

I mean unless you have a baseball sized dimension I guess. But that is very specific.
 
Torsin said:
Reality warping seems a bit iffy to me. Other than i agree with the rest. Just cause a jutsu has yin yang release does'nt mean it alters reality. Yin yang release has been shown to be used for various things from altering reality(creation of all things) to empowering existing jutsu( sasuke with his chidori) and etsb has'nt been hinted anywhere in the manga to alter reality to achieve its effects. Since tsb is said to have all chakra natures including the ones for particle style ( earth, fire and wind) the addition of yin yang chakra could just be amplifying the effects of the particle style to be more potent. I'm just saying it could be a possibility.
Click to expand...
yin-yang is reality warping at its core, making something from nothing and also the ability to give it life. The abilities they get from it just stem from reality warping.At the end of the day it is just the medium through which they gain other abilities.
 
Torsin said:
Reality warping seems a bit iffy to me. Other than i agree with the rest. Just cause a jutsu has yin yang release does'nt mean it alters reality. Yin yang release has been shown to be used for various things from altering reality(creation of all things) to empowering existing jutsu( sasuke with his chidori) and etsb has'nt been hinted anywhere in the manga to alter reality to achieve its effects. Since tsb is said to have all chakra natures including the ones for particle style ( earth, fire and wind) the addition of yin yang chakra could just be amplifying the effects of the particle style to be more potent. I'm just saying it could be a possibility.
Click to expand...
Like Rocker said, Yin-Yang Release entails reality warping at its core, and as I mentioned in the OP gives the characters other reality warping based abilities outside of the TSB.

The whole point of this upgrade thread is to identify and index the various applications for their brand of reality warping, so we don't simply leave it open ended or ill-defined.
 
I think generally it looks fine but 2 things:
1) We’ve accepted that chakra can interact with the soul correct? Which is why you also proposed non-physical interaction and soul manipulation?

2) for the points regarding space-time manipulation, I think they sound solid, however, it’s important to note that it’s not combat application and is basically derived from what Kaguya’s ETSB was shown to do
 
Jvando said:
1) We’ve accepted that chakra can interact with the soul correct? Which is why you also proposed non-physical interaction and soul manipulation?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that was accepted in the previous ability CRT, but this specific proposal for NPI and/or Soul Manip is different because it's based on the Minato arm situation, which was directly avoided in that other thread.

Jvando said:
2) for the points regarding space-time manipulation, I think they sound solid, however, it’s important to note that it’s not combat application and is basically derived from what Kaguya’s ETSB was shown to do
Click to expand...
Yes, that was my intention anyway, so we're covered on that front.

Thanks for your input papi.
 
I don't mean any offense with this, but I don't think the speculation with TSB is entirely necessary. It seems pretty self-evident, and while it is a bit hard to believe, it makes sense.

Also, I agree with your CRT.
 
Yeah, that was accepted in the previous ability CRT, but this specific proposal for NPI and/or Soul Manip is different because it's based on the Minato arm situation, which was directly avoided in that other thread.
Click to expand...

The most direct explanation we're given for it in the series is that Obito nullified the jutsu. Not that he severed Minato's arm-souls.

Which is why I think that's what we should stick with. We could head-canon Obito cutting souls in half and that'd be a fine interpretation.... but I don't think that belongs on the profile.
 
Damage3245 said:
The most direct explanation we're given for it in the series is that Obito nullified the jutsu. Not that he severed Minato's arm-souls.

Which is why I think that's what we should stick with. We could head-canon Obito cutting souls in half and that'd be a fine interpretation.... but I don't think that belongs on the profile.
Click to expand...
I wasn't contesting that the reason Minato's arm didn't regenerate is because of Edo Tensei getting nullified, which I mentioned in the OP pretty clearly.
What I was proposing was that in order for that nullification to take effect, Obito needed to physically make contact with the soul directly, thus awarding NPI. That's all.

In any case, I've already conceded this point, because it requires some assumptions, and is a bit shaky, so we don't need to discuss it further I guess. I'll remove it from the OP in a bit, so it doesn't unnecessarily distract us.
 
2021-02-08.png


What did I tell you guys?
 
I've redacted the rejected Soul related stuff from the OP to avoid any confusion.
 
The Reality Warping I'm not so sure about. Just because it includes Yin-Yang Release doesn't make it Reality Warping by default. Yin-Yang Release can be used for the "Creation of all Things" but that doesn't mean the Truth-Seeking Balls themselves are making used of it for Reality Warping.

For example the Akimichi Clan can use Yang Release for their Size Manipulation. But I wouldn't automatically give anyone else with Yang Manipulation their Size Manipulation too.
 
Wrath_Of_Itachi said:
Other than the RW part, what are your thoughts on the other abilities proposed?
Click to expand...
I mentioned up above the other abilities I'm against.

Transmutation is fine.

The Void Manipulation/Existence Erasure seems to be fine if it fits the description though I'm not sure if both of them are necessary.

Reality Warping and Space-Time Manipulation, I am against.
 
Damage3245 said:
The Reality Warping I'm not so sure about. Just because it includes Yin-Yang Release doesn't make it Reality Warping by default. Yin-Yang Release can be used for the "Creation of all Things" but that doesn't mean the Truth-Seeking Balls themselves are making used of it for Reality Warping.

For example the Akimichi Clan can use Yang Release for their Size Manipulation. But I wouldn't automatically give anyone else with Yang Manipulation their Size Manipulation too.
Click to expand...
No you are getting it the other way round. Yin-Yang release is literally reality warping as it is the ability to give imagination form due to the combination. Creation of all thing was derived of this and izanagi is a lesser copy. TSO are another copy but closer to Creation which is why they can form into other objects: see Toneri. You won't give people size manipulation from Yang release because the size manipulation is a derivation of giving something form. Which is what Yang release is.

Reality warping is the basis for the other abilities and where they come from.
 
Like Rocker said, Yin-Yang Release is literally creating form out of nothing and giving Life to the lifeless, which we've seen numerous times through many different applications.
Izanagi is an obvious example, as it is a derivative of Creation of All Things.
Naruto's healing abilities are also another example of Yin-Yang Release being Reality Warping-esq due to it being able to create form (in this case organs) out of nothing, and restore/instill life into other as he did with Guy.

All of the abilities of the TSBs are based in Yin-Yang release, and thus in RW. All we're doing is just indexing these abilities, so again the RW aspect won't be combat applicable here.

The Transmutation section illustrates the form out of nothing property pretty well I think, because the TSBs were shown to instantly gain mass out of nowhere and completely alter their physical properties.
 
Tsb affecting souls has been rejected 1000 times.

But ill be making a debunk to just about everything on this post
 
"Taking in the chakra of the shinobi that were captured in the Shinju, a maximized "Truth-Seeking Ball". It's the same as the black orbs on Naruto's back after he used the Six Paths Sage Mode, however, their size is not comparable."
As per DB, the only difference between regular TSB and ETSB is the size, so whatever ETSB gets, TSB gets but in much smaller scale obviously.
 
Damage3245 said:
Let's avoid calling other users fools here, even if they show clear bias.

Reio will make his argument and we can judge his post based on the merits of what he has to say in that.
Click to expand...
I agree with Damage on this one. Let's keep this civil because these controversial threads can get out of control pretty quickly. Let's try to be productive here.
 
Rocker1189 said:
No you are getting it the other way round. Yin-Yang release is literally reality warping as it is the ability to give imagination form due to the combination. Creation of all thing was derived of this and izanagi is a lesser copy. TSO are another copy but closer to Creation which is why they can form into other objects: see Toneri. You won't give people size manipulation from Yang release because the size manipulation is a derivation of giving something form. Which is what Yang release is.

Reality warping is the basis for the other abilities and where they come from.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean, but I think it's a bit different. I think that the Creation Of All Things is an application of Yin-Yang Release. But simply having Yin-Yang Release itself is not Reality Warping. I think it depends on how you use it.

Maybe listing it as non-applicable Reality Warping is fine, maybe not. I'm more neutral on that now.
 
Jvando said:
I think generally it looks fine but 2 things:
1) We’ve accepted that chakra can interact with the soul correct? Which is why you also proposed non-physical interaction and soul manipulation?
Click to expand...
limited soul manipulation, that was given due to them being able to manipulate their own soul to create chakra
 
Counters

  1. Tsb being reality warping
This is wrong cuz there's literally no feats backing this up toneri creating cages and elements with is irrelevant cuz he simply manipulates nature types. As tsb has all nature types. Personally they yin yang reality warping depends on the user. Obito can rewrite his own death while naruto who apparently has the full application cant even make an arm and has to get one specially made from hashi cells.

2.Tsb having void manipulation.

First of all theirs is nothing indicating this argument is entirely head canon. The databook statement of the orb reducing everything to nothing is a hyperbole as zetsu saids "its the Start of a new time space" and naruto and sasuke would also be needed as sacrifices. Starting something does not mean complete or finishing so its not reducing everything to nothing. And kaguya also stated to survive its destruction because of her immortality if it reduced everything to nothing how is she surviving? And the databook scan also contradicted itself. Cuz its stated it would reshape the world instead of turning it to nothing
0ZpzTRSle7D0suleQkV0ESYQikGe9CViNJWjKsUZn6D2npnLZ90SYmz8O1K3BNgd9cVLTKPvDCN56h-o12VZjiLXqQ21wRuk19af3FUpey_C9DhqWjg8B-MNbHWPhDZ5mKN9FvnS


Also if we look at the raw scans of zetsu saying "its the start of a new time space" it actually doesn't even say time space it saids space as this kanji means space 空間
scan. And to add to the fire these are none official translations
 
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