Triforce (and Goddesses) downgrade

[Theglassman12]

Alright so this has been bugging me for quite some time so I might as well make this thread. Long story short, the triforce doesn't have any legitimate universal feats to scale off to, which I'll explain why. First the main feat the full triforce scales to in the first place is warping the dark world, which not only does it not really prove anything AP related, but it's also reliant on the place being referred to as a world, as well as it being the sacred realm in general, just twisted based on ganon's evil heart. So the problem here, is the somewhat misuse of the term "world" especially in the japanese kanji, with a couple other folks who knows japanese had to elaborate, World doesn't always mean universe, hell in one of the websites regarding Japanese kanji, universe is a far less common meaning for the word sekai (世界), and it doesn't exactly help that the word universe has its own japanese kanji "Uchu" (宇宙), so there would need more evidence than just saying the term "world" that they'd actually mean the entire universe as opposed to it being just the planet we're on. While some may point out how Sekai does have alternate meanings like society and universe, which you could interpret it as the latter, the problem here is not only assuming that it means the universe without much evidence, but Nintendo themselves do not see the term "world" as universe. As shown in the Hyrule Historia (which came out in anticipation for Skyward Sword's original release) where they talked about the different worlds link has explored across many games, and used "sky and land" as one example of the different worlds he and his incarnations explore. So yeah Nintendo themselves (more specifically on the zelda side) don't exactly see eye to eye on world meaning universe to them.

But that's not where this ends, there's also the fact the Triforce has one major anti-feat for it being 3-A in the first place, which is A Link Between worlds ironically enough. Hilda explains how her ancestors resorted to destroying Lorule's triforce to stop the conflict, which started Lorule's decline, hence her being motivated to get the Hyrule triforce to save her land. Well given Hyrule Encylcopedia also made an entire flowchart about the different worlds that exist in the zelda universe with a legends key to show which one's are considered worlds and kingdoms. Lorule's not even registered as a world by Nintendo, just a kingdom. Not only does it make the triforce being 3-A in AP very questionable here, but given the fact Hilda's ancestors destroyed the triforce, and a long time has passed and Lorule's still intact and didn't immediately crumble as a result of the triforce being gone, it doesn't even check off the requirements for stabilization feats, more specifically the 3rd requirement for stabilization feats.

Requirement 3: Prove that the character's stabilization is comparable to the scale of the structure they are stabilizing. Preferably, it should be proven that the character's sustainability is comparable to the destruction of the structure to best show that their power rivals the destructive output of what would destroy the structure in the first place. Please keep in mind that this may vary depending on how the structure's destruction would occur. For example, if a character sustains the existence of a universe that would not be instantly or immediately destroyed when no longer supported, the power of their sustainability would not be comparable to destructive output that completely and immediately destroys a universe, and would not be sufficient enough to be given a 3-A or Low 2-C rating. However, their sustainability could be given either rating if the universe they sustain would be completely destroyed instantly or immediately without support.

So yeah, this being not a legit feat to scale physically to, on top of Nintendo not believing worlds mean universe when it comes to zelda with the supported evidence that universe and worlds have separate kanjis (with universe being a less common meaning for sekai so there'd need to be more evidence it means universe), on top of Lorule not being registered as a world whatsoever by their own encyclopedias for the series, 3-A Full triforce needs to go, and should just upscale from the High 6-A feat from the giants given the triforce of power upscales from them in the first place. I also bring up the golden goddesses in the title because their ratings are heavily based on making a million worlds. Again with the showing on worlds and universe meaning, this would have to be downgraded immensely. Personally I can see them being 4-C with their creation of Hyrule with the sun being made as a result (I say 4-C instead of High 4-C because there's a recalc on making dimensions with a star that got accepted recently) given we not only have no evidence they made the entire zelda timeline, but all the branching pathways weren't even made by them in the first place, just Link causing timeline changes in OoT. If there's any other evidence in the series to prove there's universal feats for the triforce, or the goddesses where they made flat out universes with time included then we can use them, if not, High 6-A full triforce and 4-C golden goddesses I can see where they could be at.

 

[Shmooply]

Following.

 

[Dalesean027]

Well shit this came from out of nowhere I'll have tonpost this in tbr LoZ discussion thread to get some supporters here

 

[SilentLyfe]

Following

 

[Dust_Collector]

Don't have too much time to go through this super thoroughly since I am incredibly tired and going to bed soon but I'm gonna give some brief thoughts on this.

But that's not where this ends, there's also the fact the Triforce has one major anti-feat for it being 3-A in the first place, which is A Link Between worlds ironically enough. Hilda explains how her ancestors resorted to destroying Lorule's triforce to stop the conflict, which started Lorule's decline, hence her being motivated to get the Hyrule triforce to save her land. Well given Hyrule Encylcopedia also made an entire flowchart about the different worlds that exist in the zelda universe with a legends key to show which one's are considered worlds and kingdoms. Lorule's not even registered as a world by Nintendo, just a kingdom. Not only does it make the triforce being 3-A in AP very questionable here, but given the fact Hilda's ancestors destroyed the triforce, and a long time has passed and Lorule's still intact and didn't immediately crumble as a result of the triforce being gone, it doesn't even check off the requirements for stabilization feats, more specifically the 3rd requirement for stabilization feats.

Just wanna point out that we never used the Lorule stuff as an AP justification since we already knew it didn't qualify for stabilization feats.. Also I wouldn't take the encyclopedias idea of what is and isn't a world too seriously, A Link Between Worlds makes it pretty clear that Lorule isn't just a kingdom and the encyclopedia for some reason counts Labrynna and Holodrum as worlds when they're just kingdoms you can travel too via sailing, also it treats the Sacred Realm as just a kingdom (Which the games themselves make very clear isn't the case) but somehow the Dark World is which the exact same place but just corrupted is somehow a different world.

Also not sure why the Triforce warping the Sacred Realm wouldn't count as anything AP related, we treat reality warping as AP almost all the time and the Triforce uses the same energy to perform all it's feats so it's not like it can't scale to the power it can grant (Although there are statements that suggest the Triforce doesn't actually do anything and it's the goddesses themselves that grant the wishes of whoever touches but it's weird and other statements contradict it so ehhhh). It'd at least stay 4-C since the Sacred Realm/Dark World has a visible sun (if we're going the route of it not qualifying as a universe) and there's no way it'd scale below Majora and the Fierce Deity (It's treated as the biggest deal in the series besides the goddesses themselves) so can't say I agree with it getting yeeted all the way down to High 6-A.

Not entirely sold on the goddesses being downgraded to 4-C either (I'd lean more on world in the context of what they do as meaning universe), although I do agree that they didn't create all the branching timelines, never liked how we just assumed they decided to make a whole new timeline (Downfall timeline) because, I dunno, reasons, without having any actual proof they made it. I was going through the series to do a revision on them myself since their profiles are pretty bad overall, but like I said earlier, kinda too tired to argue atm so

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Looking over the arguments presented in OP, this seems pretty solid and I agree, always found the uni Zelda reasonings odd. I’ll wait for supporter arguments before fully casting a vote tho.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dust_Collector that’s not exactly my point, Lorule as a whole is a massive anti feat for the dark world given it doesn’t show the feat qualify for the stabilization feat, which the dark world kind of lacks, that and the fact that the term world doesn’t mean universe by Nintendo’s definition since they refer the sky and land area in skyward sword as worlds, so it meaning universe makes no sense in the context of Zelda.

reality warping doesn’t count as an AP feat anymore, especially when it comes to scaling to raw stats when we need more evidence of this, with Stabilization feats and universal energy system being a thing.

Yeah that’s fine, get some rest.

 

[Chariot190]

Ditch the Lorule shit, it's stated explicitly time and time again in game to be otherwise. Even the guide itself contradicts itself on Lorule's standing. This is a blatant case of cherry picking a contradictory line while ignoring the other 3 dozen.
"The sorcerer Yuga (page 32), from a parallel world known as Lorule, targets the Triforce. Yuga awakens the soul of Ganon in Lorule, but Link manages to defeat their combined form and unify the Triforce once more."
"Though Hyrule is the land that is most associated with the Legend of Zelda series, there are many other lands that populate the legends.
Some exist independently of Hyrule and the world that it occupies, while others can be seen as photo negatives of Hyrule, or, if Hyrule and that world were two sides of the same coin, Hyrule would face the light, while the other side would be in the shadow. They are counterparts and form a pair, with Hyrule being situated in the Light World and its parallel counterpart existing in places called the Dark World or the Twilight Realm, demonstrating their relationship to one another.
Additionally, Lorule is a parallel world that acts as the opposite side of Hyrule, but also has its own separate history and Triforce."

Same guide, same page even.

Edit: Why did you crop that bit out anyway?

 

[Chariot190]

Also dude. your own scan answered the question about what sekai/world means in the context of the Goddesses, it's blatantly obvious the Golden Goddess' "worlds" in context means parallel worlds, as in, dimensions, given Termina, something directly mentioned in that scan, is an alternate reality as a key point (with its own starry sky, history, sun, moon and more), was included as being one of those "worlds" mentioned.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

zelda fans STARVING, christ, cant even keep 3-A gods

 

[Armorchompy]

Nintendo themselves do not see the term "world" as universe. As shown in the Hyrule Historia (which came out in anticipation for Skyward Sword's original release) where they talked about the different worlds link has explored across many games, and used "sky and land" as one example of the different worlds he and his incarnations explore. So yeah Nintendo themselves (more specifically on the zelda side) don't exactly see eye to eye on world meaning universe to them.

This feels like a bit of a nitpick, this is just meant to be highlighting the various dualities in Zelda games' worlds, not saying they're all on the same scope of size. Which, they provably aren't, given that the "past and future" timelines of OoT are... a bit bigger than Skyloft. Just because they use world in one way in a certain context doesn't mean it always holds the same meaning, especially when it's a bit of an odd, specific context.

But that's not where this ends, there's also the fact the Triforce has one major anti-feat for it being 3-A in the first place, which is A Link Between worlds ironically enough. Hilda explains how her ancestors resorted to destroying Lorule's triforce to stop the conflict, which started Lorule's decline, hence her being motivated to get the Hyrule triforce to save her land. Well given Hyrule Encylcopedia also made an entire flowchart about the different worlds that exist in the zelda universe with a legends key to show which one's are considered worlds and kingdoms. Lorule's not even registered as a world by Nintendo, just a kingdom. Not only does it make the triforce being 3-A in AP very questionable here, but given the fact Hilda's ancestors destroyed the triforce, and a long time has passed and Lorule's still intact and didn't immediately crumble as a result of the triforce being gone.

... So? They didn't specifically wish for the Triforce to destroy Lorule, they just destroyed the Triforce itself. I don't really see how this is an anti-feat for it. Just because it fails to count as a feat itself doesn't mean it is the opposite of one, it's just something that'll happen when the Triforce is destroyed. It's like saying that a character cannot be 3-A because a tower he's sustaining takes a couple years to collapse after he dies. That's just how it be.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

reality warping doesn’t count as an AP feat anymore, especially when it comes to scaling to raw stats when we need more evidence of this, with Stabilization feats and universal energy system being a thing.

Does that extend to reality warping that completely rewrites/destroy/recreate the universe? I’m pretty sure those instances still count for AP at least

(This question is unrelated to this thread btw)

 

[Chariot190]

especially when it comes to scaling to raw stats

Also this, the only reason why it's scaling to stats is because he was explicitly going to use it to amp himself with its full might, and we all know how funny triangles go brrr work in Zelda, especially for Ganon. If it didn't say that we'd just be treating it as meme hax.

In fact we have funny lines like this
"The Ganondorf of this timeline is able to wield magic due to his possession of the Triforce of Power. However, since Link was able to warn Princess Zelda of the future, Ganondorf did not enter the Sacred Realm or lay his hands on the completed Triforce. Link returning from the future bearing the Triforce of Courage made it so that Ganondorf was unable to consolidate the omnipotent power of the Triforce within himself"

(The reason it specifies "this timeline" is because Downfall timeline exists, where he did literally that, aka the Full Triforce key).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I haven't been the most interested in Zelda threads as of late but, Dark World /Sacred Realm being a Universe doesn't come simply being called world, but rather a parallel dimension/world to the the Light World or the world Hyrule takes place in. That and the Dark World is large enough to contain a sun, meaning it is 4-C sized at bare minimum. But if it's only 4-C sized, that would mean all of Hyrule would also have to be located in some 4-C sized pocket reality; which can't be the case because star constellations located in the Milky Way Galaxy are visible in Wind Waker; and I may have heard the Andromeda galaxy being visible with the naked eye, and astronomers who talk about star constellations and the milky way galaxy exist in the Zelda Universe which would imply the existence of a multi-galaxy sized body of space Hyrule is located in. But, it is arbitrary to consider the universe just a collection of Tier 4 or 3-B sized pocket realities, so Dark World's size being located in a 3-A minimum body of space seems painfully obvious. And even within Zelda, World has a very flexible definition. Just because it was used as a synonym for country or planet in one game or sentence doesn't mean it can't mean universe in other games or sentences.

As for the destruction of Lorule's Triforce, they merely used the Triforce's own wishing powers against the Triforce itself specifically and not all of Lorule, so it's not an anti-feat against it's attack potency. And worst case scenerio is even if we assumed someone physically erased a Triforce, it would only be an anti-feat for the Triforce's durability and not it's attack potency or an anti-feat for the people it amps. Also, there is 0 reason for Complete Triforce to be any weaker than Majora. It literally makes one the most powerful entity in the Zelda Verse aside from the Golden Goddesses which would include Majora or FDL.

Golden Goddesses would still be Tier 2. "Giving birth to existence from the Chaos of Creation" is Low 2-C at bare minimum. And that's not counting the creation of the Downfall Timeline which would make it 2-C even if the Millions of Worlds was bunk. But even Termina still had other universal statements. The universe page does say entire alternate realities is a qualification for it to be another universe. But that is to be saved for another day.

I mostly agree with Dust Collector, and ArmorChompy is speaking common sense.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 You do realize one of my points is also regarding the fact that worlds does not equate to universe? Especially when the kanji isn't the same with Universe? So it being named a world doesn't really prove anything on it being universal in size. Doesn't help that in HH the developers refer to the sky and land area in skyward sword as two different worlds that Link explores, it doesn't really mean universe.

Do we have any evidence that termina is it's entire space time continuum? Because it's referred to as the land of termina, not the alternate universe known as termina.

Also again, can you like tackle my point about Lorule's feat being not legit for a stabilization feat since it took centuries for Lorule to come even close to being destroyed as opposed to instantaneously? Because that's kind of shooting the 3-A rating for the full triforce in the foot here. Ganondorf being amped has nothing to do with my point so you're just strawmanning me, my point has to do with the feat of sustaining lorule actually scaling to the triforce's full power via stats alone, something that doesn't qualify thanks to the requirements for stabilization feats.

@Armorchompy this particular context is them referring to worlds in general that Link explores, and the reason why I bring it up to begin with is to prove that using the term worlds doesn't equate to universe in Zelda's context given sky and land aren't literal universes in the context of the game.

That literally was not what I was arguing in the first place. My argument is the fact that Lorule's triforce being destroyed so long ago by Hilda's ancestors, yet Lorule as a whole is still intact despite losing their triforce for a long time make the 3-A feat questionable at best, because in the stabilization feat page, the thing the power or character is sustaining needs to collapse the instant they go away, if they don't qualify for all 4 of these requirements then the feat doesn't scale to their raw stats. In this context, Lorule's triforce shattering doesn't immediately collapse lorule in the first place, meaning it does not qualify for stabilization feats, which is kind of required for something like having entire pocket dimensions being made as a necessity to scale to their raw stats.

@Kirbonic_Pikmin that would be either a separate AP via hax or from environmental damage, which is a case by case basis.

@DarkDragonMedeus Ok first off, my main point about the Lorule feat is the fact that the entire world of Lorule is supposedly sustained by the Triforce, yet despite it being literal centuries after the triforce shattered the entirety of Lorule hasn't completely collapsed, this contradicts the triforce fully scaling to 3-A in raw stats thanks to the stabilization feats requirements. Something you even argued and agreed with in the very thread it was proposed btw. We literally have no proof that the triforce is supposedly stronger than Majora in any way shape or form, especially given the 3 pieces alone don't match him at his prime so just saying "it doesn't sound right" without really proving why isn't really helping your case.

Where exactly does "giving birth to existence from the chaos of creation" come from? Also why the **** are you assuming they made the downfall timeline when they never did to begin with? The downfall timeline was only made because Link died in OoT, not because they made a new timeline, can you prove they made it at all? Because I don't see them being 2-C from the timeline splits.

Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.

Did you read the full line here? Because you don't get universes from just "alternate realities", which to my knowledge I don't recall seeing in any of the zelda games or guides.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ok first off, my main point about the Lorule feat is the fact that the entire world of Lorule is supposedly sustained by the Triforce, yet despite it being literal centuries after the triforce shattered the entirety of Lorule hasn't completely collapsed, this contradicts the triforce fully scaling to 3-A in raw stats thanks to the stabilization feats requirements. Something you even argued and agreed with in the very thread it was proposed btw.

My concern has nothing to do with our stabilization feats policy, only that it is for other reasons. Such as Creating the Dark World which has multiple parallel world statements.

We literally have no proof that the triforce is supposedly stronger than Majora in any way shape or form, especially given the 3 pieces alone don't match him at his prime so just saying "it doesn't sound right" without really proving why isn't really helping your case.

It's literally been described as "Symbol of the Goddess' power" and "Strongest power in all Hyrule", but I don't have on hand links/sources atm.

Where exactly does "giving birth to existence from the chaos of creation" come from?

Pretty sure there are some very frequent statements in Ocarina that literally mention Golden Goddesses creating order from the land of Chaos. As stated by the Great Deku Tree.

Also why the **** are you assuming they made the downfall timeline when they never did to begin with? The downfall timeline was only made because Link died in OoT, not because they made a new timeline, can you prove they made it at all? Because I don't see them being 2-C from the timeline splits.

The Adult Link Timeline and Young Link timeline were created via time travel, there is no in game implication that would have resulted in a 3rd Downfall Timeline the same time the other 2 were created. The Goddesses fated it all to be separate timelines. This was also commonly brought up by many others.

Did you read the full line here? Because you don't get universes from just "alternate realities", which to my knowledge I don't recall seeing in any of the zelda games or guides.

I was the one who wrote that page and 95% including that bullet point list. Also Parallel Universe statements here and Alternate Reality statement. Lastly, this was the post where Alternate Reality meaning Parallel Universe was insisted.

Also This lists the multiple parallel worlds throughout Zelda.

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot190 You do realize one of my points is also regarding the fact that worlds does not equate to universe? Especially when the kanji isn't the same with Universe? So it being named a world doesn't really prove anything on it being universal in size. Doesn't help that in HH the developers refer to the sky and land area in skyward sword as two different worlds that Link explores, it doesn't really mean universe.

Yeah but no offense, I kinda really don't even wanna call it a "point", it's actual semantics and ignorance of context.

In this context, it's blatantly not what you're trying to handwave it off as, just like in some context's it can mean planet, universe, locale and more, and in your example it means dualities of a "World of sky" and "world of land", just like how Termina means world as in "parallel world reached through a portal that isn't the same as the world of the main timeline and is explicitly noted as being a different world altogether with its own space that was accidentally manifested through a crack in space itself", because, again, we know that some of the worlds in question, in this case, Termina, is its own parallel universe. A world not of Hyrule, but of a different point. Funnily enough, your own scan proves it's separate.
Besides, are you legitimately arguing because in one context where world evidently doesn't mean universe or even planet, it means all contexts have to be scrutinized to a ludicrous degree when in reality, we can just use common sense and basic human comprehension to know what it's talking about?

Do we have any evidence that termina is it's entire space time continuum? Because it's referred to as the land of termina, not the alternate universe known as termina.

Yeah it's referred to as the land of termina, but also the world of termina, and a dozen other things (like parallel universe that one time)? Again, you're cherry picking something, ignoring everything else, and saying because it said this one time it MUST be ONLY this.
Your point, in the very scan you posted in the OP. Is talking about parallel worlds.
A world that is the same as the world of the main zelda setting, but different. Are we going to arbitrarily assume it's the same but "oh only this country and nothing else" yet ignore the fact it's shown to have a different planet, a different moon, a different sun, a different night sky and a dozen of other things (with even its own pocket dimensions like the twinmold locale)? Even aliens my dude.

But anyway yeah, DDM posted a scan saying it's a universe, so shrug, there ya go, saves me time. Should be evident enough that it's only you who doesn't think of Termina as what it's meant to be.
And then, because we know Termina is an alternate world, and because the millions of worlds statement is in context of worlds as defined by the parallel world of Termina itself, we know worlds in that context are alternate realities.

I'd also like to point out when something says "parallel world", the default assumption is this. As with everything, we aren't going to treat Zelda any different because world was used once in a flowery way.

Also again, can you like tackle my point about Lorule's feat being not legit for a stabilization feat since it took centuries for Lorule to come even close to being destroyed as opposed to instantaneously? Because that's kind of shooting the 3-A rating for the full triforce in the foot here.

Why would I? We don't use it and it neither supports or denies it? I tackled the point about you cherry picking a piece of a page (and cropping out the fact about how literally right above it it calls it a parallel world) and why legitimately trying to argue Lorule isn't a parallel world flat out ignores everything we know about (Good God lad, the game is literally called a link between worlds).
Ironic as it might be, that's the strawman, nobody uses that for the 3-A, it's a nonfactor.

Ganondorf being amped has nothing to do with my point so you're just strawmanning me, my point has to do with the feat of sustaining lorule actually scaling to the triforce's full power via stats alone, something that doesn't qualify thanks to the requirements for stabilization feats.

I'm not, you said, above, in your own words, we do not scale things like that to raw stats, unless you're saying you never said "reality warping doesn’t count as an AP feat anymore, especially when it comes to scaling to raw stats when we need more evidence of this, with Stabilization feats and universal energy system being a thing."
I showed why we do scale Ganon to it, because he's stated to have been directly amped and consolidated its omnipotent might for himself within him, HH btw for that scan, you can probably find it by just Ctrl+F "Consolidate". That isn't a strawman, it's answering your statement with the "why".

Would like it if you didn't throw around strawman accusations to undermine what people say when it doesn't actually apply, at least make sure it's a strawman before saying that shit.

this particular context is them referring to worlds in general that Link explores, and the reason why I bring it up to begin with is to prove that using the term worlds doesn't equate to universe in Zelda's context given sky and land aren't literal universes in the context of the game.

Ok now prove that that context applies to everything, because that needs to be the case for the OP to be taken seriously. And then why it applies to the stated parallel world that one enters by slipping through a crack in space and a dimensional rift is the same thing as funny land and sky
(Do note that in the very line you're talking about, they mention other types of worlds that would qualify far beyond what you're implicating).

on top of Nintendo not believing worlds mean universe when it comes to zelda with the supported evidence that universe and worlds have separate kanjis (with universe being a less common meaning for sekai so there'd need to be more evidence it means universe)

I also want to point out this is circumstantial evidence, is context sensitive and means nothing on its own without the context of the statement in question to corroborate it, as in, you have to prove that all "worlds" entail that. Reminder synonyms exist and some synonyms can hold different meanings depending on the context it's used in, basic language 101.

 

[Chariot190]

Also, if we do treat downfall timeline as being created by the Gods, I'd be willing to toss that out. That shit makes no sense, isn't even implicated anywhere and ignores the context of it being created by just Link up and dying and Zelda working on a split timeline as part of the cosmology.

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy this particular context is them referring to worlds in general that Link explores, and the reason why I bring it up to begin with is to prove that using the term worlds doesn't equate to universe in Zelda's context given sky and land aren't literal universes in the context of the game.

"Zelda's context"

It's a 36 year old series with 29 games and a fuckton of side material, it doesn't have a single uniformed context where if a word means something one time it will always mean the same thing. Especially when it's clearly just referring to things the various Links explore here.

That literally was not what I was arguing in the first place. My argument is the fact that Lorule's triforce being destroyed so long ago by Hilda's ancestors, yet Lorule as a whole is still intact despite losing their triforce for a long time make the 3-A feat questionable at best, because in the stabilization feat page, the thing the power or character is sustaining needs to collapse the instant they go away, if they don't qualify for all 4 of these requirements then the feat doesn't scale to their raw stats. In this context, Lorule's triforce shattering doesn't immediately collapse lorule in the first place, meaning it does not qualify for stabilization feats, which is kind of required for something like having entire pocket dimensions being made as a necessity to scale to their raw stats.

But... the profile doesn't use Lorule as a feat. Just because the way Lorule breaks down isn't a feat doesn't mean it's an anti-feat lmao, it's not even something the Triforce has actually been told to do, it's just being caused by its absence.

You can argue it's taking a while because of a billion different possibilities, maybe there's still some residual energy, maybe it was not actually sustaining Lorule on a material level and just providing it energy, maybe the Triforce's energy is completely gone long ago but the geography of the place still holds up somewhat because it's not like the Triforce was physically propping it up, etc

These are obviously all half-way baseless theories but like, no, it's not an anti-feat, it doesn't deny anything, it's just something that happens, we don't know the specific details of how the Triforce sustained Lorule, we're not using this nor any other type of sustainment feat for the Triforce's tiering it's just... not relevant.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The word "alternate world" means universes. Nobody says "alternate planet". It also mentions Termina as one of these worlds, and Termina is confirmed to be a universe, which backs up the fact that parallel world in this scan is referring to universes, so the dark world and sacred realm are universes. I feel like Din simply breathing takes a lot less effort than creating fire to empower the Master Sword or making a Triforce that grants wishes, so the Triforce and a lot of characters should scale to 2-B. The Triforce is said to be the ultimate force in the same paragraph they mention the goddesses. In Skyward Sword, the Triforce is said to be power without equal, so it would be comparable if not stronger than the Goddesses since they mention the Goddesses in the next sentences. The Triforce pieces individually have the power of the gods, and it doesn't say anywhere that its a portion of their power anyway. Ganon states that if one uses the Triforce, the gods would have no choice but to come down and grant the wish. So the Triforce is just the Gods using their power, no reason to assume they're holding back.

 

[Dust_Collector]

ayyy I'm awake, gonna give some more thoughts on this (Won't be as long as intended tho since others have already said stuff I was going to say)

Saying world doesn't mean universe in Zelda's context makes no sense, the series doesn't have a single set meaning for world they use it to mean different things all the time, hell the manual for A Link to the Past (The original Japanese one) uses world in two different contexts.

"Each part of the Triforce, "the Ruler of Power", "the Administrator of Wisdom" and "the Forger of Courage", carried a crest. Until the appearance of an appropriate person who would take over this force, it was located in a holy place somewhere in the world, shining continuously."

"However, one day, due completely by accident, the entrance of the sacred place was opened by a band of thieves. That place was another world."

First statement says that the holy place the Triforce is located in is somewhere in "the world" and given that said holy place is a completely different dimension world in this context means basically everything that exists, second statement uses world to refer to just the Sacred Realm as a separate place from the Light World Hyrule is in. That's just a single manual using "world" to mean two different things. And given that we know the Light World has celestial bodies (And we're even shown things like Nayru just blinking the sun into existence) world in the context of their creation can't just mean planet or society, you can't just say the Zelda series never uses world to refer to universe just because they also sometimes use it when referring to things like the sky. The only thing I agree with removing from the goddesses is their creation of the downfall timeline because that was not their doing.

And for the Triforce I don't agree with it being downgraded either, the Sacred Realm/Dark World have celestial bodies and is constantly referred to as a parallel world to the Light World so in that context I think it's more than likely referring to them as universes instead of planet (I certainly wouldn't look at a dimension with a visible sun and call it just a planet), and it warping the realm should count as AP. It doesn't use different energy to perform the feat then what it uses to do anything else, and even if you wanna say the Triforce itself shouldn't be that level Ganondorf during the sealing war should be since, as Chariot posted above, he explicitly consolidates it's power into himself and there's no reason to assume that doesn't include the power it used to warp the Sacred Realm.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The word "alternate world" means universes. Nobody says "alternate planet". It also mentions Termina as one of these worlds, and Termina is confirmed to be a universe, which backs up the fact that parallel world in this scan is referring to universes, so the dark world and sacred realm are universes. I feel like Din simply breathing takes a lot less effort than creating fire to empower the Master Sword or making a Triforce that grants wishes, so the Triforce and a lot of characters should scale to 2-B. The Triforce is said to be the ultimate force in the same paragraph they mention the goddesses. In Skyward Sword, the Triforce is said to be power without equal, so it would be comparable if not stronger than the Goddesses since they mention the Goddesses in the next sentences. The Triforce pieces individually have the power of the gods, and it doesn't say anywhere that its a portion of their power anyway. Ganon states that if one uses the Triforce, the gods would have no choice but to come down and grant the wish. So the Triforce is just the Gods using their power, no reason to assume they're holding back.

Valorant verse says hello!

 

[Theglassman12]

@DarkDragonMedeus none of the scans mention creating the dark world from nothingness, just the triforce warping the sacred realm into the dark world.

If you can post scans where that’s mentioned it would be great.

Yeah I went through the entire golden goddesses cutscene in OoT and i don’t see “chaos of creation” there. If it’s somewhere else that I’m not aware of I’d like to see it.

Well thanks for providing scans that termina is a universe. Probably need to have that in the page.

The entire point that I made here is that not every world means universe, thanks to DDM since I can see evidence for 3-A goddesses there are actual universes stated in the series, but given they’re talking about worlds in general since they’re describing Zelda worlds that link explores, we don’t assume they’re all automatically universes unless proven otherwise, which so far we have like one confirmed alternate world being a universe.

I don’t care if you don’t use it or not, that’s not my point. My point is the full triforce has an entire game explaining how it sustains an entire world of Lorule but despite the triforce being destroyed the dimension doesn’t immediately collapse. Something that doesn’t check off the requirements for stabilization feats, AKA something that would scale to raw stats for the triforce.

They literally describe the different worlds link explores, and bring up several examples with the sky and land area being considered worlds in their eye, what about this is remotely not talking about Zelda worlds in general?

I know synonyms exist, the problem is that universe is a far less common meaning for sekai than normal, especially when world also means society in Japan which is a massive leap between that and universe.

@Armorchompy you do realize that just makes it more inconsistent than right? Other long running franchises has far more consistent stuff going for it when it comes to their lore and whatnot, so that’s not exactly an argument.

Again that’s irrelevant if Lorule’s feat is used or not, the fact the feat exists in the first place for the full triforce and it doesn’t collapse the dimension immediately means it does not qualify for stabilization feat. The dark world feat is literally just changing the sacred realm into the dark world, nothing about it is creation or anything AP related, just a reality warping feat. Lorule’s the only thing the triforce has when it comes to actual AP since it involves sustaining an entire world unless there’s another feat I’m not aware of that the Triforce has.

@XXKINGXX69 where is it remotely mentioned the triforce has all of their powers? You do realize the fact there exists more than one triforce shoots your argument in the foot that it has all of their powers right? Because how exactly would either of them have all of the goddesses power if they’re supposed to do the same thing?

@Dust_Collector Unless Zelda has a solid argument for a UES where every single unconventional feat that happens can scale to the raw stats because of magic, warping an entire dimension wouldn’t even scale to AP these days. If you wanna argue that warping the sacred realm into the dark world translates to AP then UES is needed for that to scale fully.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have work soon, so I can't counter comment on everything, but this scan yes again distinct kingdom's link travels to from the actual "Parallel worlds/universes". Though there is no description for what each of the tan shaded blocks, but that's implied to just be some bigger worlds containing other worlds/kingdoms. Lorule is a tan shaded block seperate from Hyrule where as "Kingdom of Lorule" is just a kingdom. Same with the sky and stuff from Skyward Sword just being kingdoms. But Termina is a parallel universe and Holodrum, Labyrynna, Dark World ect would all be parallel universes under the parallel worlds/dimensions rules section of the universe page.

Also, the Sacred Realm was merely just a white void originally, but Ganon using the complete triforce was what transformed the Sacred Realm into a "Mirror world/Parallel Dimension" from the Light World. And still created the sun at bare minimum and would inherently created all those star constellations that do exist in the Light World. Also, UES doesn't just refer to pools of energy/chakra/Ki that every in verse character has, as even McGuffin Artifacts can still qualify as UES if there is consistency that it amps physical capabilities as well as magical powers. And even if not, there is still limited/Non-Physical energy systems within that page. Which would still be AP even if striking strength and durability aren't scaled. But I'm not tacking which one it qualifies as for now.

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy you do realize that just makes it more inconsistent than right? Other long running franchises has far more consistent stuff going for it when it comes to their lore and whatnot, so that’s not exactly an argument.

It's indeed a complete nonargument on your part, to try and prove "worlds" means something other than universe in one specific context by pointing to a completely different one. It's not like we just saw the word "world" and went, "yep, that's a universe", the context was actually looked at.

Again that’s irrelevant if Lorule’s feat is used or not, the fact the feat exists in the first place for the full triforce and it doesn’t collapse the dimension immediately means it does not qualify for stabilization feat.

Ok? Literally nobody's been arguing that.

The dark world feat is literally just changing the sacred realm into the dark world, nothing about it is creation or anything AP related, just a reality warping feat.

Then like, tackle that one instead of talking about something completely unrelated that we don't even consider a feat ourselves.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah I went through the entire golden goddesses cutscene in OoT and i don’t see “chaos of creation” there. If it’s somewhere else that I’m not aware of I’d like to see it.

"When all was chaos and nothing yet existed, it is said that three goddesses created the world. Din, the Goddess of Power, created the land. Nayru, the Goddess of Wisdom, created order. And Farore, the Goddess of Courage, created all life. When the creators departed the world, they left behind three golden triangles symbolizing their power: the Triforce, which grants the wish of anyone who touches it. Upon their departure to the heavens, the three goddesses entrusted another goddess, Hylia, and a legion of spirits and fairies (page 22) with protecting the land they had created."

Encyclopedia. There's a few other times the word chaos is mentioned but that was the quickest one I could find.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

@XXKINGXX69 where is it remotely mentioned the triforce has all of their powers? You do realize the fact there exists more than one triforce shoots your argument in the foot that it has all of their powers right? Because how exactly would either of them have all of the goddesses power if they’re supposed to do the same thing?

Individual pieces alone are already said to have the power of the gods. They can each have the power of the gods but still do different things, maybe the triforce of power is more focused on power,

 

[Theglassman12]

@XXKINGXX69 that doesn't mean 2-B, prove they have literally every ounce of the goddesses' powers.

@Chariot190 it's page 12, not 22, but thanks.

@DarkDragonMedeus I don't recall it being a white void, especially when I'm pretty sure we've seen the sacred realm in the other games and it was never depicted as a void. Also it only applying to the objects mean nothing when A: we have no in depth blog explaining UES for Zelda and B: the stabilization feat the triforce has for Lorule makes it scaling to a full universe very iffy.

@Armorchompy You're the one who brought up the fact that "oh it's a long running series so there's going to be inconsistencies", when other franchises don't have the same amount of inconsistencies despite being around the same time.

Still not an argument, by that logic downgrades as a whole doesn't exist on the wiki because people always use other feats we don't use or look over in any series.

That literally was part of my argument dude, especially when it's supporting evidence for my main point which is Lorule not reaching the same level of power.

 

[Chariot190]

it's page 12, not 22, but thanks.

I literally copy pasted the raw text.

That literally was part of my argument dude, especially when it's supporting evidence for my main point which is Lorule not reaching the same level of power.

So? Lorule could be a tier 10 feat. It's a non factor. It isn't used at all, and while not a feat, it isn't an anti feat either, it's just something that happened as a side effect.

You know you can have a powerful artifact give energy to a realm, and then it goes poof and the realm not instantly collapse right? Going by your line of logic, if taken literally, the Triforce isn't even 9-B because it took a decade or so for a country to get to the point of irrepare. Divide the energy of that timeframe by a decade, you'd get joules at best.

And you know what? That's fine, because the whole interaction doesn't effect anything to begin with. It isn't used for anything, and just because it was helping the realm, it doesn't mean the the realm should just vanish? Like it still exists outside of the triforce's existence, it's like saying a huge power grid going offline means it doesn't generate tier 7 energy because a city doesn't instantly vanish without it.

I don't recall it being a white void,

He's probably thinking of Ganondorf being sealed in the sacred realm at the end of OOT, which is depicted as a white void there. From that given the lore, we know he warped the place he was sealed, into the dark world. While I don't agree 100%, I see the line of thinking.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

@XXKINGXX69 that doesn't mean 2-B, prove they have literally every ounce of the goddesses' powers.

I just explained it to you, did you even read what I said or are you just dodging it because you can't refute it? I'll copy and paste it again

I feel like Din simply breathing takes a lot less effort than creating fire to empower the Master Sword or making a Triforce that grants wishes, so the Triforce and a lot of characters should scale to 2-B. The Triforce is said to be the ultimate force in the same paragraph they mention the goddesses. In Skyward Sword, the Triforce is said to be power without equal, so it would be comparable if not stronger than the Goddesses since they mention the Goddesses in the next sentences. The Triforce pieces individually have the power of the gods, and it doesn't say anywhere that its a portion of their power anyway. Ganon states that if one uses the Triforce, the gods would have no choice but to come down and grant the wish. So the Triforce is just the Gods using their power, no reason to assume they're holding back.

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy You're the one who brought up the fact that "oh it's a long running series so there's going to be inconsistencies", when other franchises don't have the same amount of inconsistencies despite being around the same time

... Ok, so if there's inconsistencies use the specific context of ALTTP rather than look at unrelated stuff.

Still not an argument, by that logic downgrades as a whole doesn't exist on the wiki because people always use other feats we don't use or look over in any series.

No by that or any logic this is literally not an anti-feat, it's not gonna change if you keep moving back to it, it's just not a limiting showing at all.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 None of what you said remotely debunks my point that this does not qualify for the stabilization feat requirements right? You saying it's not used means jack shit unless you can debunk Lorule's triforce not sustainint the realm to the point it qualifies for Stabilization. So can you for once tackle my point on how it does not check off the stabilization feat, making it an anti-feat for 3-A in the first place, because this is the big point I'm making to disprove the triforce being on the same level.

@XXKINGXX69 None of what you posted proves it's literally the same power as all the goddesses combined, and the gods coming down literally never happened in any of the games when the triforce is used, it's clearly flowerly language for what amounts to "the triforce grants my wish". If you're not going to prove the triforce has literally every ounce of the goddesses' power then your argument falls flat.

@Armorchompy Nothing about ALBW is unrelated, the sequel to ALTTP in the timeline and also elaborates more on the triforce.

Still waiting for the explanation for why this is not an anti-feat. If you're not going to explain how and why Lorule as a whole not collapsing the instant the triforce was destroyed, which does not qualfiy for stabilization feats (one of the stuff used to scale to physical stats in general) then this thread is still going to go on, and I might as well call other folks to give their opinions on the feats as a whole and elaborate.

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot190 None of what you said remotely debunks my point that this does not qualify for the stabilization feat requirements right? You saying it's not used means jack shit unless you can debunk Lorule's triforce not sustainint the realm to the point it qualifies for Stabilization. So can you for once tackle my point on how it does not check off the stabilization feat,

Maybe you don't quite understand. I'll make it blunt. Literally nobody but you gives a **** about the feat because it's worth nothing either way.
Cool, it doesn't count as a stabilization feat, and? Neat, that does quite literally nothing in regards to changes and arguing it is a complete and utter waste of everyone's time because as just about everyone has said it at this point, not only is it isn't used, it isn't a feat nor anti-feat, it merely exists.

Nobody is even trying to debunk it you get that right?

making it an anti-feat for 3-A in the first place, because this is the big point I'm making to disprove the triforce being on the same level.

Things that aren't true, more at 11.

I'll refer back to this

So? Lorule could be a tier 10 feat. It's a non factor. It isn't used at all, and while not a feat, it isn't an anti feat either, it's just something that happened as a side effect.

You know you can have a powerful artifact give energy to a realm, and then it goes poof and the realm not instantly collapse right? Going by your line of logic, if taken literally, the Triforce isn't even 9-B because it took a decade or so for a country to get to the point of irrepare. Divide the energy of that timeframe by a decade, you'd get joules at best.

And you know what? That's fine, because the whole interaction doesn't effect anything to begin with. It isn't used for anything, and just because it was helping the realm, it doesn't mean the the realm should just vanish? Like it still exists outside of the triforce's existence, it's like saying a huge power grid going offline means it doesn't generate tier 7 energy because a city doesn't instantly vanish without it.

Your imaginary anti-feat, if taken at face value, would unironically be an outlier in that it's to low to even be taken seriously.
Ignoring it isn't one to begin with.

 

[Chariot190]

which does not qualfiy for stabilization feats (one of the stuff used to scale to physical stats in general)

Hey, remember that Ganon scan I gave you above that you said wasn't important and didn't matter and was a strawman?
Looks important to me given the reason we scale the TF to physical stats is because Ganon augmented himself with the whole of its power, not a stabilization feat. Aka, we don't need a stabilization feat to scale it to physicals when we're basically told he did exactly that. So again, why's this even relevant again?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Still waiting for the explanation for why this is not an anti-feat

Still waiting on an explanation for why this is an anti-feat.

Like, how does Lorule not instantly fading from existence when it's Triforce is destroyed something tnat contradicts it being universal? You're trying to say the Triforce can't be 3-A because, what? It doesn't have a 3-A feat in this one specific game? An anti-feat would be if, I dunno, the Triforce struggled or explicitly used it's full power only to blow up the moon or something, Lorule just kinda crumbling away because the Triforce isn't floating around doing basically nothing in the Sacred Realm is not an anti-feat, it's not anything.

You really wanna downgrade the Triforce then focus only on the Dark World stuff because that's the only relevant point of discussion.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

@XXKINGXX69 None of what you posted proves it's literally the same power as all the goddesses combined, and the gods coming down literally never happened in any of the games when the triforce is used, it's clearly flowerly language for what amounts to "the triforce grants my wish". If you're not going to prove the triforce has literally every ounce of the goddesses' power then your argument falls flat.

What do you mean by "the gods coming down literally never happened in any of the games"? Why is it flowery language that amounts to that? Prove it

I already proved the triforce has the full power of the gods, if not more power. Or at the very least, more power than Din's mere breath which made millions of universes. You didn't even respond to it, you just said "it doesn't prove it" which is as good as saying "i disagree". I'll just copy and paste it again since you wanna pretend I didn't already give an explanation

I feel like Din simply breathing takes a lot less effort than creating fire to empower the Master Sword or making a Triforce that grants wishes, so the Triforce and a lot of characters should scale to 2-B. The Triforce is said to be the ultimate force in the same paragraph they mention the goddesses. In Skyward Sword, the Triforce is said to be power without equal, so it would be comparable if not stronger than the Goddesses since they mention the Goddesses in the next sentences. The Triforce pieces individually have the power of the gods, and it doesn't say anywhere that its a portion of their power anyway. Ganon states that if one uses the Triforce, the gods would have no choice but to come down and grant the wish. So the Triforce is just the Gods using their power, no reason to assume they're holding back.

You also haven't proved the dark world feat isn't 3-A, nobody cares about Lorule

 

[Armorchompy]

@Armorchompy Nothing about ALBW is unrelated, the sequel to ALTTP in the timeline and also elaborates more on the triforce.

Ok, but I was talking about the "worlds" statement which is from HH so

Still waiting for the explanation for why this is not an anti-feat. If you're not going to explain how and why Lorule as a whole not collapsing the instant the triforce was destroyed, which does not qualfiy for stabilization feats (one of the stuff used to scale to physical stats in general) then this thread is still going to go on, and I might as well call other folks to give their opinions on the feats as a whole and elaborate.

Because not doing a feat doesn't mean you can't, it's not like the Triforce was asked to destroy Lorule, this was simply caused by its absence, we don't know in what way the Triforce was sustaining Lorule so you can't claim it's an AP issue rather than just the specific way it was being supported, clearly Lorule's physical matter was not relying on the Triforce to exist so like, it's definitely not an AP thing.

Like literally everybody disagrees with you on this so I don't really think you stand to gain anything by continuing to bring it up like we haven't explained it already

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 saying "no one uses this feat" isn't an argument in any way shape or form, otherwise no CRT ever that brings up any feats not used before would ever pass, which is ridiculous beyond belief. Yes it does count as a feat as the entire point of ALBW is that it's supposed to sustain the dimension of Lorule, saying it doesn't means nothing here, because the more you say that it doesn't qualify for the stabilization feat, meaning it's not a legit 3-A feat for the triforce, the more questionable the rating gets when there's only 2 noteworthy feats the triforce has that can be remotely equated to AP ignoring the WW ocean feat.

Why are you saying it's an imaginary feat? It's literally in ALBW. Debunk it not being an outlier instead of saying it's an imaginary feat cause I can also reverse the argument back at you by saying warping the dark world is an imaginary feat.

Congratulations, you have evidence ganondorf was amped by the Triforce, now how powerful is the triforce exactly? Because we're debating the latter, not the former. Something that's kind of relevant when arguing ganondorf scales to 3-A, let alone the triforce as a whole being 3-A.

@Dust_Collector because it's the only physical feat that the triforce has, and the stabilization feat mentions how their actual power will not scale to the full scale of the dimension or structure it sustains. So it doesn't check off the feat for stabilization so it doesn't scale to the dimension of lorule, now what about the Dark World is remotely implied to be an AP feat in the first place and not just a reality warping ability? Especially when just warping an entire dimension no longer counts for AP.

@XXKINGXX69 That's not how it works, prove the positive that the goddesses literally show up to grant the wishes. No you haven't, especially when the more recent translation of ALTTP's backstory mentions the triforce only has a small portion of the goddesses' power.

@Armorchompy Except that in the stabilization feat page you not doing it means you cannot be able to replicate it to the same level of power. If you're going to tell me that it does, either debunk my point that the triforce failed to stabilize the dimension or or I'll bring up some other folks who knows if this would check off scaling the triforce to physical stats because it not checking off the stabilization requirements means they don't scale fully to the dimension.

 

[Chariot190]

Still waiting for the explanation for why this is not an anti-feat.

Because it isn't?
Oh wow a 3-A artifact gave energy to a realm, oops it went away, oops that realm is now decaying because it isn't getting energy anymore.
get your head out of the battle boarding gutter and stop thinking this even matters, it could be a Tier 1 artifact and this could have still played out the same way.

You're acting like the realm was created by the triforce (it wasn't, and if it was, cool, 3-A feat lesgooooo) and that the physical realm itself was directly tied to the triforce's existence (only partially, it still exists outside of it, it's just now destined to go to shit because of it, not because the triforce was sustaining the whole world's existence, but because energy it was given allowed it to flourish. Without that energy, well, it's obviously going to decay now).

Your argument has a false premise, not only is Lorule not even created from it, but something else (that being the big three), so yeah, of course an unrelated artifact going away isn't going to cause the instant destruction of a world, of course the world's foundation is built upon it, but so? It's like arguing a generator vanishing means the thing it powers must as well. And that's just one of many issues with your argument.

"full triforce isnt even town level" is what you're arguing because a kingdom took like, idk in your words, a century to not even fully decay.

Meanwhile we got Ganon with a fraction of it doing shit liking dropping casual triple digit kiloton explosions, or passively emitting more energy by existing in OOT as just the bottom of what he has whipped out, let alone normal boss enemies. hell why did Demise even want it again? His feat act of business was ripping open the earth in a huge fissure and then destroying mountains and shit?

Still waiting on an explanation for why this is an anti-feat.

Like, how does Lorule not instantly fading from existence when it's Triforce is destroyed something tnat contradicts it being universal? You're trying to say the Triforce can't be 3-A because, what? It doesn't have a 3-A feat in this one specific game? An anti-feat would be if, I dunno, the Triforce struggled or explicitly used it's full power only to blow up the moon or something, Lorule just kinda crumbling away because the Triforce isn't floating around doing basically nothing in the Sacred Realm is not an anti-feat, it's not anything.

You really wanna downgrade the Triforce then focus only on the Dark World stuff because that's the only relevant point of discussion.

Basically this, if you want to downgrade the Triforce, actually tackle something that actually matters.

@Chariot190 saying "no one uses this feat" isn't an argument in any way shape or form, otherwise no CRT ever that brings up any feats not used before would ever pass, which is ridiculous beyond belief.

It's unironically an argument, nobody has to deal with you on this, nobody uses the feat, the feat doesn't effect anything despite your incessant complaining that it does so nobody needs to actively waste their time with you. It's as simple as that, this might come off as a bit harsh but it's the truth, this is tantamount to arguing a nuclear reactor can't be tier 7 because when it shuts down the city it powered doesn't instantly vanish into nothingness even though the reason everyone treats a nuclear reactor as tier 7 is because of a completely different feat altogether like uh, blowing up and wiping out a city.
This is basically what your argument amounts to, that being nothing.

CRT's can bring up new feats obviously, the difference between that and this, is that those feats tend to matter, in contrast to what you're doing which is wasting everyone's time.

Yes it does count as a feat as the entire point of ALBW is that it's supposed to sustain the dimension of Lorule, saying it doesn't means nothing here, because the more you say that it doesn't qualify for the stabilization feat, meaning it's not a legit 3-A feat for the triforce,

Yeah, you're right, it isn't a 3-A feat which nobody said otherwise, and it also isn't a 3-A antifeat despite your belief that suggests it is because uh (why the actual **** do you think this again???), congratulation's, you've just wasted everyone's time. Anything new you want to add or...?
Like what are you even arguing, the absence of a feat is an anti-feat? Lmao ain't how it works lad.
But hey, you know what's funny? The opposite could just as well be argued, if the Triforce was sustaining the realm, why did it continue to exist for awhile?
You know this could be flipped just as easily to argue the thing gave the realm so much energy that it had enough excess energy after its demise to sustain itself? And honestly? That'd be the only logical conclusion I'd be able to reach given you refuse to accept the physical world of Lorule exists outside and separately from the Triforce itself. If you want to tie them intrinsically to that extent, we need a reason why the land still had energy to support itself even after the demise, given your argument relies on it being solely triforce dependent, that would entail the realm had excess energy still.
Wow cool, so it's a 3-A feat
Or maybe it's just nothing

the more questionable the rating gets when there's only 2 noteworthy feats the triforce has that can be remotely equated to AP ignoring the WW ocean feat.

And? Wow, the thing with like two feats somehow not having more means its feats are wrong? Not how it works.
The ocean feat is, obviously, not an anti-feat, that's what he wished for, so that's what happened, but that logic the Golden Goddesses' having what is essentially the same feat must discredit them as well right? Obviously not.
Having lower feats doesn't invalidate higher feats unless said lower feats were done in such a way that contradicts the upper scope like, idk, "hey i wish for the world to vanish lmao" and the Triforce went "sorry dude can't do that" or it did and it said "yeah dude but that took most of my power lmao". Guess what never happened?

The same applies to your obsession with Lorule btw.

Why are you saying it's an imaginary feat? It's literally in ALBW.

Because it is and you're the only person who can't see that lmao. Did it happen? Yeah, what's imaginary in case you somehow missed it, is it being an anti-feat.
It isn't, nobody agrees with you, absence of a feat isn't a anti-feat.

cause I can also reverse the argument back at you by saying warping the dark world is an imaginary feat.

You could do that yeah, but you'd only be discrediting yourself even further so go ahead I guess?

Congratulations, you have evidence ganondorf was amped by the Triforce, now how powerful is the triforce exactly?

Yeah, now remember how above you said otherwise?
How powerful is the Triforce? Idk, probably 3-A based on the Dark World feat if I had to guesstimate shrug

Because we're debating the latter, not the former.

Ignoring all the times you yourself brought it up but shrug

Something that's kind of relevant when arguing ganondorf scales to 3-A, let alone the triforce as a whole being 3-A.

Yeah, unfortunately, you'd yet to tackle anything of merit, so far everyone's wasted their breath because nothing of actual change has been brought forth

If you want to actually argue a downgrade, tackle the actual feat of Dark World being used, but given how you've refused to even do that despite being told to like 4 times by multiple people and instead hyperfocusing a non-existence anti-feat, I wouldn't be able to take the sudden backpedaling and shifting of the goalpost as anything but an attempt to downgrade for the sake of downgrading rather than it legitimately being flawed

But yeah let's downgrade the Triforce to like 8-A+ because lorule didn't phase into nothingness instantly because it's def a "anti-feat"

 

[Chariot190]

@XXKINGXX69 That's not how it works, prove the positive that the goddesses literally show up to grant the wishes. No you haven't, especially when the more recent translation of ALTTP's backstory mentions the triforce only has a small portion of the goddesses' power.

Uh, did you even read what you linked? I might not agree with him, but you just give him shit to use against you.
"The Japanese only says that the Triforce was created as a "symbol" of the god's power. It says nothing about a "small but powerful portion of the essence of the gods " being held inside the Triforce. The U.S. version just added this."

It being mentioned as a small portion is actively not part of what it's supposed to say, that's an early 90's english funny.