Transformers General Discussion

[Emirp sumitpo]

I've calced jetfire surviving re-entry. I got Low 7-C, which really isn't that important considering I'm planning on upgrading bay verse to potentially 7-C.

If only we had Bagger 288 in the movies then we could've gotten High 7-C

 

[Primestar3]

Megatron striking from Unite for the Universe manga (written by Simon Furman):
Hits Starscream so hard that the nearby trees and a farmhouse in the background are destroyed just from the wind of his attack.

I am not sure if this is canon to the Bayverse extended universe (IDW comics and novels), but it doesn't condradict much besides one toy character seemingly getting killed by Starscream, yet showing up later in an IDW comic. It is possible he survived his apparent death in this manga.

There is also the Cyber Missions cartoon, where Soundwave reacts to a bullet from Bumblebee's 10 thousand rounds per minute shoulder machine guns and where Megatron stops a train by bullrushing its side and also throws a train car at Optimus. Thst one doesn't condradict anything AFAIK. Frenzy is alive tho (Maybe he never died or got resurrected?).

IMO, if it doesn't condradict and is meant to fit the Bayverse movies, it counts.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

None of them should be part of the main canon. But they don't look particularly impressive when compared to the current ratings

 

[Primestar3]

None of them should be part of the main canon. But they don't look particularly impressive when compared to the current ratings

I am talking about the Extended Universe.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ok

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Still, none of it seems beyond the current ratings, and I don't plan to add every piece of extra media for the extended universe keys.

The ones that look impressive are idw, Titans and maybe the Nintendo games.

 

[ByAsura]

I feel using things like the mass of tanks and planes isn't viable. They (with the exception of Megatron) were skinny protoforms when they landed, and this logic makes Optimus Prime far less heavy than someone much smaller like Brawl.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So what does this mean? Should we exclude all calcs for tanks and planes?

And if that is the case, should using the dinobots and the constructicons still be used?

 

[Primestar3]

So what does this mean? Should we exclude all calcs for tanks and planes?

And if that is the case, should using the dinobots and the constructicons still be used?

Dinobots came to Earth with Lockdown's ship.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

All bayverse Transformers can survive re-entry. The dinobots should as well.

 

[ByAsura]

I meant the specific mass of each vehicles. We should use statements and guides.

Grimlock is 3x Optimus' height (Prime is 28 feet, Grimlock is 84) and significantly bulkier, so we shouldn't assume he can survive re-entry. What do you mean by the Constructicons?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Grimlock is 3x Optimus' height, and far bulkier. We shouldn't assume he can survive re-entry. What do you mean by the Constructicons?

There are some constructicons that got 7-C calc using their vehice weights. But that's thrown out the window.

 

[Primestar3]

So what does this mean? Should we exclude all calcs for tanks and planes?

And if that is the case, should using the dinobots and the constructicons still be used?

IMO, their weights shouldn't be too far off. Optimus was cracking the concrete while running. Ratchet falling violently shook the whole Witwicky house when he fell outside their garden.

Is Grimlock's weight being 850 tons realistic for someone of his size? If it isx that probably is another proof that Transformer probably have the same weight as their alt modes/sizes suggest more or less.

Still, none of it seems beyond the current ratings, and I don't plan to add every piece of extra media for the extended universe keys.

The ones that look impressive are idw, Titans and maybe the Nintendo games.

Well, what I meant to say is that, since IDW movie comics and the novels are one continuity according to John Barber, maybe the Cyber Mission cartoons and some of the manga are canon to the Extended Universe as well.

The games are not canon to the Extended Universe.

 

[ByAsura]

I've looked into it, and apparently the protoforms are made of an ultra-dense substance that changes density and absorbs matter to add material. So their normal forms are at least as heavy as protoforms. The problem still remains that characters like Brawl would be far heavier than Optimus.

@Primestar3

That's kind of the problem.

While Bay does keep size-changing consistent, there are notable exceptions like Starscream.

 

[LordTracer]

The Dinobots aren’t even used for the scaling, why are they part of the discussion?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So I found some characters weights here.

We have:

• 0.00325 tons - Movie Frenzy [Transformers: The Movie Universe]
• 0.12125 tons - Movie Frenzy [Profile Card]
• 1.32277 tons - Movie Skids [Transformers: The Movie Universe]
• 1.32277 tons - Movie Mudflap [Transformers: The Movie Universe]
• 6.28317 - Movie Megatron [Sticker Sheet]
• 8.5 tons - Movie Optimus Prime [Bits & Bytes]
• 4.73994 tons - (4.2 metric tons) Movie Optimus Prime [Trading Cards] [Transformers: Movie Universe]
• 10.031 tons - Movie The Fallen [Transformers: The Movie Universe]
• 26.4555 tons - Movie Devastator [Transformers: The Movie Universe]

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Using the same formula as previously, we get 8-B for Optimus, 62.177342256214146 tons of tnt.

r.i.p

 

[ByAsura]

I might also make a few calcs. There's some interesting stuff I remember.

If we use the 30,000 knots figure, it gets Multi-City Block level.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

If we use the 30,000 knots figure, it gets Multi-City Block level.

Where is that from?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Well, what I meant to say is that, since IDW movie comics and the novels are one continuity according to John Barber, maybe the Cyber Mission cartoons and some of the manga are canon to the Extended Universe as well.

Do you have a scan for this?

 

[Primestar3]

Using the same formula as previously, we get 8-B for Optimus. r.i.p

I think Devastator is way too light at 26 tons. His mere steps were shaking the area in the movie.

It is also inconsistent with Grimlock's weight. Grimlock is smaller, yet much heavier.

I think Epps called Optimus 8 tons in ROTF.

The official script and its novelization itself calls Fallen 30 tons at 40 feet.

I brought these Movie Universe guidebook weights up before but you dismissed them lol.

 

[ByAsura]

Where is that from?

The military says it in Revenge of the Fallen.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I brought these Movie Universe guidebook weights up before but you dismissed them lol.

I dismiss them because that was before we decided that the current calcs are flawed, and we should use official weights.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So which of these weights should we use?

 

[Primestar3]

Ok, with many different weights, which should we use?

Maybe I am biased, but,

In the first movie, Optimus running could crack concrete.


Ratchet falling shakes the Witwicky house.


Devastator's mere steps can shake the surrounding area.


Megatron falling shakes the area.


Fallen in the script itself is described as 50 tons. He is 40 feet which is more or less his actual height apparently.

 

[Primestar3]

So, I think their intended weights in the movie is heavier.

Also, as I said, Devastator is bigger than Grimlock, yet even Grimlock weights 850 tons according to Paramount/Bay.

@ByAsura See above.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Those feats don't really determine their weights tho. Also there's a feat of blackout obliterating a bunch of planes, which is High 8-C.

 

[LordTracer]

Destroying a single plane is High 8-C, Blackout was obliterating several with each shot.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You're right, one of his shot destroyed 3 planes. Should we get a calc for that?

 

[Primestar3]

Those feats don't really determine their weights tho. Also there's a feat of blackout obliterating a bunch of planes, which is High 8-C.

I am guessing to crack concrete while running, you would have to be heavier than 4 tons.

Shaking the area (like Devastator and Megatron does), I'm not sure exactly, but I THINK is more than 26 tons and 6 tons respectively.

And the weights coming from Bay/VFX and the script writers are much above the weights given in the trading cards. For example, Fallen's weight in the script is 50 tons, while the guide has it at 9.

Regarding Blackout destroyng the planes, those same pulses can also throw tanks around (Abrams tanks I think). Blackout also fired a shot in front of his feet, yet he no sold it, which is both a durability and strength feat.

 

[LordTracer]

You're right, one of his shot destroyed 3 planes. Should we get a calc for that?

I would say yes, I doubt we could just multiply the plane calc by three.

 

[ByAsura]

That's for totally fragmenting a boeing-747. Blackout blew up smaller military jets, IIRC.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

For devastator and Megatron, it looks to just be a shaky camera, which is common for micheal bay.

That's for totally fragmenting a boeing-747. Blackout blew up smaller military jets, IIRC.

Those are huge cargo planes.

 

[ByAsura]

You're right, but they're still smaller than 747s and he didn't even shatter them completely.

 

[Primestar3]

For devastator and Megatron, it looks to just be a shaky camera, which is common for micheal bay.


Those are huge cargo planes.

Those are clearly a different shaking effect than shaky camera tho.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You're right, but they're still smaller than 747s and he didn't even shatter them completely.

So should we get a calc?

 

[Primestar3]

You're right, but they're still smaller than 747s and he didn't even shatter them completely.

Blackout's weapon was seemingly throwing tanks around meters away. I think that might be better. Also, Blackout no sold his own blast right at his feet.

 

[ByAsura]

@Emirp Idk how they'd even go about calculating it, but sure. He also destroyed one with each shot, not three with one shot. The fact that it was also his EMP weapon makes it difficult to scale.

@Prime It's probably worth calculating, but throwing a 200 tonne mass at 100 m/s only gets Building level results.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

He also destroyed one with each shot, not three with one shot.

If you look closely, there are actually more planes. His first and second shot destroyed 3 planes, his third only destroyed one.

Also which weights should we use

 

[Primestar3]

@Emirp Idk how they'd even go about calculating it, but sure. He also destroyed one with each shot, not three with one shot.

@Prime It's probably worth calculating, but throwing a 200 tonne mass at 100 m/s only gets Small Building level results.

Hmm. Still, might scale to strength as he was unmoved by his own omnidirectional blast.

I still think that the weights given in those trading cards and guidebooks are way too light. Doesn't match the weight given in the script (Fallen is 50 tons, while the guide says he is 9), or WOG (Grimlock is 850 tons according to Bay, but the much bigger Devastator is only 26 tons).