Tower of God Hax: CRT for Irregulars Irregular Acausality (oh and Arie Swordmanship stuff is there too)

[ImNot4nUser]

What will be Discussed?
In ToG, the Arie swordmanship has a set of laws that are beyond the law of physics, as well as irregular being excempt of this, and they also have acausality because why not

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Acausality

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Section I

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First some clarifications:
Red Witches Guide are able to see Fate which they also call Paths (Silver dwarfs paths have context as well but everything here is in red witches context).

Spoiler: GUIDE RED WITCHES AND SILVER DWARVES

Khel Hellam can see destinies/fate:

Spoiler: SEE DESTINY

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Section II

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All irregulars are able to defy and change fate:
Destiny in this case destiny and fate is the same, straightforwardly the same

운명 which is the word used for destiny literally means fate, for those people that only believe in word fate despite destiny being a synonym.

Spoiler: KOREAN RAW

Bam change the fate altering it completely:

Spoiler: OFFICIAL TRANSLATION: WEBTOON

• They are able to change fate/destiny
• They're greater than fate

They also don't follow any of the pre established paths(or fates), instead they walk a path of their own that they themselves make.

Spoiler: PATHS

In the context to red witches which is Paths=Fate/destiny, these paths are unalterable:

To explain the convo between Hwaryun and Wangnan here, Guides are like a human GPS that can tell the best move or make predictions, but how that comes to be is not known until we get there. So even if they predicted that someone would die in a month they cannot give any specific way to avoid it, but they can try their best. Of course, a prediction a day or an hour ahead can be more detailed, but you can't avoid it once you end up at the wrong path
-SIU Blogpost

As so we know that paths (or fate As they stated in the first section) which is what red witches see are unavoidable once you end in one of the wrong path's.(Hwaryun stated that someone of team sweet and sour would die inside the train, and that happened) as so paths are unavoidable.

And yet again a red witch states that irregular via their nature of being a different existence inside the tower are able to defy and alter destiny, and as so they can't be controlled

Spoiler: FATE CAN'T DO NOTHING

Yet again an irregular changing fate:

Spoiler: ZAHARD

Acausality Type 4 states:

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

And from that we can decide that Irregulars have Irregular Causality since they don't abide pre established paths of the tower and instead they make a new path of their own, and by doing so they alter any other pre existant destiny that existed beforehand.

Pre existant Fate's: Regular system of causality
Irregular Paths(Fate): Irregular system of causality, one able to change the fate's of the tower

AND THEY'RE LITERALLY CALLED IRREGULARS, AND THAT TYPE IS IRREGULAR CAUSALITY IRREFUTABLE PROOF 1000%

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Conclusion:

About terms:

• Path=fate/destiny are the same

Argument

• Irregulars are able to defy and alter fate completely and have done so 3 times (altough hell joe has shown to be able to defy fate once, this is likely because he had the power of an administrator inside of him)
• Irregulars don't abide the pre established or pre existant Path/fate/destiny, instead they create one of their own that didn't exist before hand
• flowery language saying that they are greater than fate

Profiles affected:

• 25th Bam
• Enryu not the user
• Zahard
• Phantaminum
• Urek Mazino
• Poe Bidau Gustang
• Khun Edahn

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Law Manip for Arie Swordmanship and resistance for irregulars:

This one is easy, the series states that Arie Swordmanship is uncatchable/unparry
but anyways, here it goes:

In regards to White's sword...
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being uncatchable due to unpredictibilty, as well as due to strength.
As I said it literally in the release, it may be a pre-defined Laws of the Tower that exists beyond the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
The Tower of God in a sense is a world where a game-like system is blended into a real world,
so we can have expressions like that.

Source.

In regards to White’s sword…
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being impossible to parry due to unpredictability,
as well as being too strong to parry.
As per the original intention of the series, it’s probably the same as how the Tower’s Rules are set outside the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
Tower of God itself, in a sense, is a worldview where a gamified system is merged into their world,
so I think it’s possible for it to be expressed like this.

Source.
The law make so the sword will always hit.

Like I said last time, Hoaqin’s blade has no blind spots.
Whether from the back for super-close-combat, the sword will ultimately land..
Arie swordsmanship is special like that, and there’s no good techniques against it.
Either overpower them with sheer force, or just attack them before they are ready..
Boro’s special so he can block his swords. Imperfectly, but still…

SIU blogpost.
The way to bypass this law is by being outside the laws of the tower which irregulars OBVIOULY are...
A character that appeared was a little bit outside the laws of the tower and as so, he was able to catch it for some time, but at the end he was but an experiment

Spoiler: RIP

We also see Bam sparring with Hoaqin anyways

Spoiler: Irregulars stuff

And Irregulars straightforwardly violate the rules of the tower because they forced their way in.

Spoiler: Hahah Irregular's you're banging my rules

they were not chosen they are free from all contracts(rules) made by the Administrators as well.

Spoiler: Free from contracts

Profiles affected for (limited?) Law manip:

• Arie Inieta
• White

Edited in:

• 25th Bam He copied White Swordmanship

Profiles affected for resistance to law manipulation:

• 25th Bam
• Enryu not the user
• Zahard
• Phantaminum
• Urek Mazino
• Poe Bidau Gustang
• Khun Edahn

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Agree: Enryu_the_red_tower, Arceus0x, Zencha9, Elizhaa, Jacpact, Only law manip(?): Gabriel_00 | Not knowledgeable but agree with acausality: Rikimarox2,
Disagree: Pain_to12(?)
Neutral:

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yeah i disagree with the Arie swordmanship stuff, Its more about skill not Hax. No law was been manipulated or anything. Or boro also manipulates Laws?

About the Acausality stuff, well let me keep silent and wait for more input, cause i doubt the evidence shown is enough for acausality it would just get them resistance to fate manipulation.
But if you want more prove for acausality, you should add the one how irregualars operate outside the laws of the towers e.t.c.

 

[Cloozuma]

About the Acausality stuff, well let me keep silent and wait for more input, cause i doubt the evidence shown is enough for acausality it would just get them resistance to fate manipulation.
But if you want more prove for acausality, you should add the one how irregualars operate outside the laws of the towers e.t.c.

Not really knowledgable bout TOG, but being able to defy fate and make your own path should be applicable for Type 4.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not really knowledgable bout TOG, but being able to defy fate and make your own path should be applicable for Type 4.

Nah they are not making their own path, they just naturally walk a path the tower or any guide cant create for them. And no one can see the path they walk since its a new path.
Maybe Zahard can get fate manipulation or memory manipulation or clairvoyance. since he made khellam see a future that was not real(Altered the future he saw)

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Yeah i disagree with the Arie swordmanship stuff, Its more about skill not Hax. No law was been manipulated or anything.

And yet it is a rule of the tower, it is constant to the beings in tower and the only way to slightly get past this rule was by creating a being which shared the properties of an oject so it wouldn't be treated as human, so they could fall slighlty outside the laws of the tower, (which are absolute), so they could defy them. No law is manipulated, but it IS a law, a law that it can't be parried. Is a law of the tower you can say their swordmanship is protected by this law in the conventional sense.

Spoiler: Object

It's from this chapter in general that the statement came in, a law literally beyond the law of physics, is pretty clear cut(joke intended) for me

Spoiler: Here the blog in case you didn't read it in the CRT opening post

In regards to White's sword...
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being uncatchable due to unpredictibilty, as well as due to strength.
As I said it literally in the release, it may be a pre-defined Laws of the Tower that exists beyond the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
The Tower of God in a sense is a world where a game-like system is blended into a real world,
so we can have expressions like that.

Source.

In regards to White’s sword…
Well, like all swords of the Arie Family, there is the matter of it being impossible to parry due to unpredictability,
as well as being too strong to parry.
As per the original intention of the series, it’s probably the same as how the Tower’s Rules are set outside the Laws of Physics. (say wha?)
Tower of God itself, in a sense, is a worldview where a gamified system is merged into their world,
so I think it’s possible for it to be expressed like this.

Source.

Or boro also manipulates Laws?

Nop, it is resistance to Law manip, only The Swordmanship gets law manip.

And Boro explicitly is a special case by WoG since he could fight Hoaqin due to his ¨read any sword¨. He was an exception because of, unironically, Skill.

Like I said last time, Hoaqin’s blade has no blind spots.
Whether from the back for super-close-combat, the sword will ultimately land..
Arie swordsmanship is special like that, and there’s no good techniques against it.
Either overpower them with sheer force, or just attack them before they are ready..
Boro’s special so he can block his swords. Imperfectly, but still…

SIU blogpost.

Nah they are not making their own path, they just naturally walk a path the tower or any guide cant create for them. And no one can see the path they walk since its a new path.
Maybe Zahard can get fate manipulation or memory manipulation or clairvoyance. since he made khellam see a future that was not real(Altered the future he saw)

Even this qualifies you know, a new path different of the old ones that alters other pre existant paths is still acausality.

(Yet he is creating this path by his own choice and decision) So independant of if he is or not creating his NEW path, it still is acausality.

As long as it is its own independant system(which it is, irregulars paths are unique and warp other paths/fate) you even state that the tower can't create a path for them, when all the paths/fates that exists are the fates of the tower.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Nop, it is resistance to Law manip, only The Swordmanship gets law manip.

Except Boro could also later on read white swords movement after fighting him a while, he got used to the sword pattern.

And Boro explicitly is a special case by WoG since he could fight Hoaqin due to his ¨read any sword¨. He was an exception because of, unironically, Skill.

Unless Boro can also manipulate laws or have resistance to law manipulation, i dont think arie swords has anything to do with laws. It is just skills.
the said guy that you said was a special case and can resist the said laws of the Arie swordmanship was chopped up like a mince meat by white skill in the next panels. And there is a long list of those who blocked and parried white swords, the Hell train and the cage

Even this qualifies you know, a new path different of the old ones that alters other pre existant paths is still acausality.

Except it is not enough, and he is not creating that path himself or passively. He is just an irregular that does not need to follow predetermined fated paths

As long as it is its own independant system(which it is, irregulars paths are unique and warp other paths/fate) you even state that the tower can't create a path for them, when all the paths/fates that exists are the fates of the tower.

Which is why they get resistance to fate manipulation and maybe law manipulation. Not acausality.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Except Boro could also later on read white swords movement after fighting him a while, he got used to the sword pattern.

That's why I said it tho, he has a limited resistance, the same with the Yorayo who got choped at the end, he said it himself, he is only slightly outside the laws and he showed off, being able to catch several of White blades, something which is normally not possible to do even a single time because of the law which is explicitly confirmed by WoG and reliable statements coming from the workshop.

Unless Boro can also manipulate laws or have resistance to law manipulation, i dont think arie swords has anything to do with laws.

Boro don't manipulate laws, he only is an slight exception to the law of the swordmanship because of his skilled nature, the law is that the sword will hit, and can't be parry which has been shown to be the case several case, confirmed to be the case, by the author as an explicit law of the tower that is beyond even the law of physic(that's literally word by word what SIU said), and by in verse statement to be a law which is absolute to humans, all ppl that has break this law has an special case everyone.

Irregulars are totally outside the laws of the tower, while Yorayo was only slightly outside of it, and Boro was skilled enough to be a special case.

Except it is not enough, and he is not creating that path himself or passively. He is just an irregular that does not need to follow predetermined fated paths

Uhhh he is creating it by himself tho, and this new path is created with the choices he makes, that's how paths work.
And yes it is enough, an independant fate of their own that only irregulars follow and make by every choice they make and change all other pre-existant fates.

fate manipulation and maybe law manipulation

They're not fightning against fate, they're totally unaffected against fate since they don't take place in the common fates of the tower since they walk a fate of their own which they make with their own choices(even Hwaryun a guide who sees fate, don't know the end of the path), and are able to defy and change the fates of the tower as shown by Khel Hellam and yes, law manip is indeed part of the CRT.

 

[PrinceofPein]

That's why I said it tho, he has a limited resistance, the same with the Yorayo who got choped at the end, he said it himself, he is only slightly outside the laws and he showed off, being able to catch several of White blades, something which is normally not possible to do even a single time because of the law which is explicitly confirmed by WoG and reliable statements coming from the workshop.

Okay so does evankhell get resistance to law manipulation too?
Or does Kallavan do?
Or does that guy that use frog do too?
Like i said it is a matter of skill not law manipulation. the Arie are so good that no one can block or parry their swords, hence it became a law that their swordmanship can not be seen, read or blocked. but thats not the case since we have people not irregulars, reading it and blocking it.
It is not not a Law, it is a SKILL

Irregulars are totally outside the laws of the tower,

maybe this may be enough for acausality or maybe resistance to law manipulation, not the fate shii

i will wait for more knowledgeable members like Yuri to input theor thoughts

Uhhh he is creating it by himself tho, and this new path is created with the choices he makes, that's how paths work.
And yes it is enough, an independant fate of their own that only irregulars follow and make by every choice they make and change all other pre-existant fates.

of course when you make a choice a new path is created, still jsut resistance to fate manipulation

They're not fightning against fate, they're totally unaffected against fate since they don't take place in the common fates of the tower since they walk a fate of their own which they make with their own choices(even Hwaryun a guide who sees fate, don't know the end of the path), and are able to defy and change the fates of the tower as shown by Khel Hellam and yes, law manip is indeed part of the CRT.

Which is why they get resistance to fate and law manipulation (The respective types)

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Okay so does evankhell get resistance to law manipulation too?
Or does Kallavan do?
Or does that guy that use frog do too?

None of them has blocked his attacks nor parried them, Kallavan even knows that so he just tanks them with his body, the Frog dude(Dorian Frog) even got half of his frog destroyed because of that. So yeah, this means nothing actually, no one(not named Bam, Dorayo, Boro or Other Arie swordmanship user like his brothers) has ever blocked/parried his attacks.

It is not not a Law, it is a SKILL

No, it is a law. My scans talk by themselves, so does SIU you can keep neglecting, but it doesn't make a change.

of course when you make a choice a new path is created, still jsut resistance to fate manipulation

No, in this scan they're referencing the new path that irregulars make with their choice. Not the normal paths of the tower that are pre-established.

Which is why they get resistance to fate

Indeed,being outside of regular fates existing in your own irregular fate that you made with your own choice and being able to alter regular system of fate is not acausality. /s

 

[PrinceofPein]

I will reply later. about the arie swordmanship stuff. kind of busy currently

But like i said about the acausality, add the scans about irregulars operating outside the towers law and you are good to go

 

[Gabriel_00]

I don't see a problem with law manipulation, as long as it is explained in the profile that the arie sword doesn't manipulate existing laws but instead operates under it's own laws(or something like it). The text was pretty clear that there is some sort of law about it in the tower.

 

[Arceus0x]

It seems fine to me.
Pain was wrong indeed, only Bam, Boro and Arie swordsmen could catch the sword, Kallavan got spammed by those swords.

This indeed fits with acasuality.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Pain was wrong indeed, only Bam, Boro and Arie swordsmen could catch the sword, Kallavan got spammed by those swords.

and the new character too for those that are nitpick

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Acausality for Irregulars seems good to me and I agree, but the Law Manipulation of Arie Family just needs to be better explained as @Gabriel_00 said

 

[ImNot4nUser]

bump

which user has enough knowledge on acausality :?

 

[Cloozuma]

Oh btw some verses like TTGL have Acausality Type 4 for being able to choose their own fate.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

neato
now i only need supporter mods aproval, sadly both of them ignored my message :(

 

[Rikimarox2]

Idk shit about the verse, but from the scans I have seen, acausality type 4 seems fine.

 

[Zencha9]

yeah have pretty clear cut type 4

 

[ImNot4nUser]

bump

 

[Elizhaa]

I don't see a problem with law manipulation, as long as it is explained in the profile that the arie sword doesn't manipulate existing laws but instead operates under it's own laws(or something like it). The text was pretty clear that there is some sort of law about it in the tower.

More or less, this is the way that I see it. I think adding the changes as Limited Law Manipulation and adding its descriptions work well.

I am fine with the Acasaulity proposals.

 

[Jackpact]

I know TOG is going to get acausality type 4 or possibly 5 eventually but never thought that it would be this soon. Agree with acausality and Gabriel proposal for Law manip.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

bump

 

[Elizhaa]

• causality type 4 or possibly 5
  • No possibly Type 5, type 5 acausality required way more context. It is must be proven that characters can't be affected by any attacks that follow the basis of causality similar to a case like Yogiri's case.

 

[Elizhaa]

bump

I think the accepted changes can be added like the things I said are fine. If one is making the edits please follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page and don't forget to link the CRT in the Editing Summary Box.

 

[Jackpact]

• causality type 4 or possibly 5
  • No possibly Type 5, type 5 acausality required way more context. It is must be proven that characters can't be affected by any attacks that follow the basis of causality similar to a case like Yogiri's case.

I know, I'm just saying that TOG will eventually get acausality type 4 or possibly type 5 down the line base on all of these talk about fate and stuff but to have type 4 this soon is unexpected since base on the beginning of The Nest arc, TOG is still going for another 2 or even 3 season and having it now is unexpected for me since most of the op stuff tend to be reveal near the end.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ImNot4nUser
Also, shouldn't Joe and Administrators have Acausality Type 4 because he managed to defy the fate once because of the Red Thryssa?

 

[ImNot4nUser]

@ImNot4nUser
Also, shouldn't Joe and Administrators have Acausality Type 4 because he managed to defy the fate once because of the Red Thryssa?

they're a mistery yet, it would be resistance since they are able to defy fate, but don't exist in their own independant system.
edit: or it could very well be an alteration of fate caused by Mazino giving him the Tryssa, something Mazino did that altered the fate of the red witch, as i said, they're still a mystery

 

[Rez]

Agree with acausilty and law manipulation

 

[Rez]

Also this is a bit unrelated to the crt but irregulars seems to have law manipulation for defying the pre existing laws of the tower this honestly this sounds more like resistance to law manipulation to me instead of actual law manipulation

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Also this is a bit unrelated to the crt but irregulars seems to have law manipulation for defying the pre existing laws of the tower this honestly this sounds more like resistance to law manipulation to me instead of actual law manipulation

it is resistance, and the changes has been applied already :p

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ImNot4nUser

By the way, shouldn't the Resistance to Precognition/Clairvoyance of the Irregulars be removed? The Acausality Type 4 gives them that by the standards and it's redundant to have it as a Resistance

 

[ImNot4nUser]

@ImNot4nUser

By the way, shouldn't the Resistance to Precognition/Clairvoyance of the Irregulars be removed? The Acausality Type 4 gives them that by the standards and it's redundant to have it as a Resistance

clairvoyance should stay, and maybe Bam keeps it as negation but maybe in a future, new abilities are coming too(possible analytical precog? yesyesyes, Bam top skilled characters lesgo), so yh.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

So, since Resistance to Clairvoyance will stay, can I remove the Resistance to Precognition from the Irregulars' profiles?

 

[ImNot4nUser]

ye, it's redundant so why not

 

[El_Directo001]

Good shit

 

[Arceus0x]

Ye man

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah I'm gonna bring this up again because one staff member accepting the CRT without full context isn't enough to get implemented into the profile, especially after such a short discussion.


I'll post a full detailed analysis of why I disagree with everything here but Pain is making a lot of sense here.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah I'm gonna bring this up again because one staff member accepting the CRT without full context isn't enough to get implemented into the profile, especially after such a short discussion.


I'll post a full detailed analysis of why I disagree with everything here but Pain is making a lot of sense here.

Your ass is seriously gonna come after every verse i love, innit.

 

[LordGinSama]

Your ass is seriously gonna come after every verse i love, innit.

Not sure what that has anything to do with this. You say that as if I have a bias against you when in reality I literally wouldn't care if I didn't hear from you again with all due respect. You're a stranger, I have no reason to harbor a bias against by downgrading your favorite verses as you seem to be implying.



Perhaps if this thread wasn't rushed we wouldn't even be here. But I digress, like I said I'll respond to this thread in full detail tomorrow.