• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Re:Zero Acausality Removal [Regulus] | The Rules are way to lax anyway

Status
Not open for further replies.
He does not have 2 staff agreements.

Lord griffin was not even a straight agreement. He asked for more information and when given that, he never responded again. He wasn't even sure about his stance in the first place.

I don't know what other staff has agreed.
 
Sonoftanavast9 said:
The notion of Regulus having Acausality comes from the following scans, specifically the scans to do with Laws/Rules:



All I see here is self time stop granting invulnerability and a resistance to physics manipulation

In the one scan [the second] in which regulus brings up his freedom from every possible law and actually exposit on this freedom in any degree of clarity, beyond just the vaguest notion, all of what he specifically goes about mentioning is in relation to Physical laws aka Gravity, Air Resistance and Conservation of Momentum but non of this inherently has to do with him being in a state of irregular from causality or him being free from causality as a whole.

He doesn't experience change as an obviously side effect of his body being time locked, literally anything in a time stop obviously won't experience change. I don't see how this has an bearing on Acausality besides the mention of the word "Change" but to the best of my knowledge the Wiki doesn't treat every time stopped object as Acausal despite the fact that they inherently won't experience change.

The most glaring and obvious point against the notion of Regulus having Acausality Type 4 is the simple fact that he literally has direct showing of not having any of the inherent resistance that Acausality Type 4 would grant
The only way to reconcile these clear contradictions to the notion of him having Acausality is to posit that both Pandora's causality manipulation and the Book's Precognition are themselves able to affect irregular systems of causality simply by virtue of them affecting regulus despite neither her/nor anyone else bringing any attention to Regulus' unique state of existence as being something that would otherwise prevent any other causality manipulation/precog from working on him and the fact that Pandora's ability in particular is stated to basically have been the result of her changing the world and the world affirming her word so she's affecting him by altering the causality of the world which obviously wouldn't work if his supposed Acausality put him in a state of irregular causality separate from that of the worlds conventional system of causality.

It would be an extremely generous interpretation of events to assume that both Pandora's ability and the Books precog are simply able to affect irregular causality with little to no actual evidence in way of this being pointed out or mentioned at any point.

I think the qualifications for Acausality Type 4 (especially anything to do with statements of being exempt from laws/rules) are way too lax and generous as they are which leads to too many assumptions.

If we are given a statement that X character is exempt from rules/laws (the nature of this exclusion isn't explained in any sense of detail nor is causality specifically mentioned amongst those laws) -> The character is then assumed by the wiki to have an relevantly irregular relationship to causality and thus they are subsequently assumed to have immunity to Precog/Fate/Causality hax -> Any abilities of this kind which affect them are then assumed to have Acausality bypassing properties

These are extraordinary claims which require extraordinary evidence but often such cases only just have one or more unexplored statement of being exempt from laws/rules.

Agree: @CurrySenpai, @Rutæhh, @Spectra_Schiffer, @YueNoMoral, @Dark_Soul20189, @EL_xWatcher1234x, @CodeCCLL , @LordGriffin1000 , @Rakih_Elyan
Disagree: @Phoenks, @Zabazab, @SatellaTheWoE, @TheHeavenlySword, @VortechsTG
Neutral:
Click to expand...
bump
 

Massive Notice!!!​

I just realized that Regulus' Acausality is automatically invalid regardless of what's being discussed in this thread because the Acausality standards got revised not to long ago

vsbattles.com

Type 4 Acausality: Too Much For Too Little (2)

Our Type 4 Acausality standards currently read: Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Even if his ability isn't removed it won't actually grant him any resistances because the new standards now requires that Regulus has some form of showings of him being unaffected by Fate Manipulation, Causality Manipulation and Precognition individually to qualify for his Acausality granting him immunity to any of these

Regulus not only lacks any such feats but he's also specifically got very clear Anti-Feats.

Seems my prayers for stricter standards for acausality overall have been answered
 
Sonoftanavast9 said:
I just realized that Regulus' Acausality is automatically invalid regardless of what's being discussed in this thread because the Acausality standards got revised not to long ago
Click to expand...
This thread is pointless now since anti-feats for Acaus4 just do not exist anymore, with anti-feats being the only viable argument with the previous standards. Being affected by fate, precog, etc. while also having Type 4 Acausality is totally fine.
 
Zabazab said:
Please elaborate.
Click to expand...
Not only is there no proof that Reid nullificated any of Regulus powers. You(s) claim that the ability to cut off the head of a character who stops time on his own body and, in this context, makes his body independent of cause-effect relations, is the acausality type 4 negation. This is just time stop resistance everything else is going too far for something so simple explain.
 
So he isn't operating in some different causality causality; instead, he's frozen time for himself, allowing him to bypass various physical laws. It appears to be talking about the laws of physics rather than literal laws or rules. Based on this, I guess I agree with the removal of Type 4 unless there's some argument for it I'm missing.
 
Zabazab said:
This thread is pointless now since anti-feats for Acaus4 just do not exist anymore, with anti-feats being the only viable argument with the previous standards. Being affected by fate, precog, etc. while also having Type 4 Acausality is totally fine.
Click to expand...
Well no since his actual reasoning for Acausality was shoddy to begin with and I expounded on that in the OP:
All I see here is self time stop granting invulnerability and a resistance to physics manipulation

In the one scan [the second] in which regulus brings up his freedom from every possible law and actually exposit on this freedom in any degree of clarity, beyond just the vaguest notion, all of what he specifically goes about mentioning is in relation to Physical laws aka Gravity, Air Resistance and Conservation of Momentum but non of this inherently has to do with him being in a state of irregular from causality or him being free from causality as a whole.

He doesn't experience change as an obviously side effect of his body being time locked, literally anything in a time stop obviously won't experience change. I don't see how this has an bearing on Acausality besides the mention of the word "Change" but to the best of my knowledge the Wiki doesn't treat every time stopped object as Acausal despite the fact that they inherently won't experience change.
Click to expand...
At maximum Regulus' Authority should be categorized as Self-Timestop, Invulnerability & Physics Manipulation + Resistance to Physics Manipulation

We don't assume that area's where time is stopped/doesn't flow are automatically acausal on the wiki - Stopped time automatically means something won't change but that doesn't grant it acausality and the only the rule/laws he is freed from which are explained to any degree are physical laws which is naturally a result of time stop - If you throw a rock and then stop time the rock isn't going to fall(thus immunity to gravity), it isn't going to keep moving forward (thus immunity to conservation of momentum) etc.

This is just an overblown timestop ability
 
CodeCCLL said:
Not only is there no proof that Reid nullificated any of Regulus powers. You(s) claim that the ability to cut off the head of a character who stops time on his own body and, in this context, makes his body independent of cause-effect relations, is the acausality type 4 negation. This is just time stop resistance everything else is going too far for something so simple explain.
Click to expand...
He is negating Regulus' invincibility, not resisting the effects of Lion Heart being applied to himself.

Sonoftanavast9 said:
This is just an overblown timestop ability
Click to expand...
You're claiming that the abilities granted by Lion Heart are just standard abilities of stopping time. This isn't true. Nowhere on the Time Manipulation page is being granted freedom from all laws and concepts, invincibility, or unchangeability mentioned. On the other hand, such things are taken as evidence of Irregular Causality.
 
Zabazab said:
He is negating Regulus' invincibility, not resisting the effects of Lion Heart being applied to himself.
Click to expand...
Regulus invulnerability is also based on time stop, and all we know is that Reid can cut off Regulus head. There is no proof that anything is negated but you still try to push the statement as high as possible.
Zabazab said:
You're claiming that the abilities granted by Lion Heart are just standard abilities of stopping time. This isn't true. Nowhere on the Time Manipulation page is being granted freedom from all laws and concepts, invincibility, or unchangeability mentioned.
Click to expand...
You don't seem to have even a basic understanding of what time stopping can do in this case.
 
As I already explained above, but since your being willfully ignorant I'll do it again

Zabazab said:
Nowhere on the Time Manipulation page is being granted freedom from all laws and concepts, invincibility, or unchangeability mentioned.
Click to expand...
1)Laws: the only laws or rules Regulus is explained to be or shown to be except from are physical laws which is inherently to time stop - We don't need to specify this because it's so obviously inherent to these types of portrayals of the the nature of the ability, I don't need to tell you that.

Your relying on the vagueness of the statement of "Laws/Rules" despite the fact that the only laws ever explicitly relevant go these statements are Physical laws

When Regulus says he's exempt from "Laws" he specifically only lists physical laws as examples and even says word for word that this exception is to "Physical Phenomena"
By freezing time for his body, he could prevent all physical phenomena from interacting with him. That was the crux of his power. That meant freedom from every possible law that might hold him back. By freeing himself from gravity, air resistance, and conservation of momentum, Regulus gained an extraordinary source of power.
Click to expand...
The only laws Regulus is explicitly shown to ignore are physical laws... Your relying on expanding the scope of everything via vagueness rather than the clear concrete stuff we have

2)Concepts: The statements on concepts isn't literal talking about abstract concepts - anyone with basic reading comprehension can see that he's says he's except from rule and that any being chained to "such concepts" can't match him - This is clearly not talking about concepts in the sense that's relevant to the Wiki it's like me saying " Morality and humanity is a fools game, anyone chained by such concepts cannot beat me" it doesn't mean I'm talking about the literal abstract concepts of morality or humanity.... This is basic English and common sense.

3)Invincibility: depends entirely on how the series decides to portray Stopping time, in some you can affect stopped objects in others you can't either way it's still just time manipulation - Rendering an object invulnerable this war is literally an ability already on the Wiki in other profiles under Time Manipulation - I already brought up clock blocker (Glaistig Uaine) who literally makes objects invulnerable by stopping thier time and invulnerability via time manipulation isn't even some new or alien idea to the Wiki Ren Fuji had it and it was listed as part of his Time Manipulation with nothing to do with acausality (Sadly his verse was deleted from the Wiki) and hell even a profile I created has this same ability(And even another on a profile I'm currently working on)

4)Unchangeable: If something is stopped in time and it's portrayed as immobile/uninteractable it will not be changed that is just common sense and even the examples of being "Unchangeable" given by Regulus are stuff automatically applicable to a time frozen object from verses that portray such time stops to render things invulnerable - "No change means no getting injured, and it also means no getting wet, either."

Even ignoring the fact that everything you said is irrelevant the foundation of your argument doesn't even work.

Your just mentioning the possible applications of time Manipulation which aren't listed on the page while pretending like the page can encapsulate every possible variation of the ability in fiction.

There are characters that can erase time, cut through time etc. non of that is on the page for Time Manipulation but anyone with common sense will tell you it's time manipulation, no onei s going to point at the page to say "See cutting time isn't there so cutting time isn't time manipulation"... That's asinine

Regulus is just stopping time... That's it, literally all there is to it
 
Last edited:
Being affected by causality and precognition doesn’t disprove type 4 Acausality, that would just mean those hax can affect type 4 Acausals. Though the fact that this is all hell bent around stopping time and not him functioning on different laws already makes this sus to begin with, so nuke the type 4 Acausality.
 
Sonoftanavast9 said:
The only laws Regulus is explicitly shown to ignore are physical laws... Your relying on expanding the scope of everything via vagueness rather than the clear concrete stuff we have
Click to expand...
Regulus is unnaffected by Divine Protections which are literal Law Manipulation.

Reinhard's Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion which should have changed the trajectory of Regulus's attacks yet it didn't is a good example for that.

Sonoftanavast9 said:
Regulus is just stopping time... That's it, literally all there is to it
Click to expand...
Your oversimplifying it, Beatrice's E M M which grant a similar affect to Regulus's Authority was literally stated to be "side stepping from the plane of existence"

If you want time stop then even Beatrice and Satella can use it and neither of them can provide any invincibility (Beatrice's Minya shatters the target's body by stopping it's time, and Satella can crush Subaru and Emilia's hearts even thou time was stopped)

Also I don't think the gospel should be used as an argument anymore, Echidna's book which (if i'm not wrong) is just a more clear version of the gospel was able to see the original events that occurred in the Elior Forrest even thou Pandora has altered them by removing Regulus.
 
Last edited:
TheHeavenlySword said:
Regulus is unnaffected by Divine Protections which are literal Law Manipulation.

Reinhard's Divine Protection of Arrow avoidance which should have changed the trajectory of Regulus's attacks yet it didn't is a good example for that.
Click to expand...
Divine protections are achieved through law manipulation but they are each specific abilities which do specific things

Unless the specific Divine Protection has a property that would bypass a time stop it won't actually have an affect on regulus or things he stops.

This is the equivalent of claiming that because the source of a Divine Protection is Law Manipulation it would automatically operate under a time stop or circumvent a time stop when it had no feats.

The Divine Protection of Arrow avoidance is so vague that we don't even give it a concrete ability to a "Possibly Probability Manipulation", it's equally as likely to be achieved via something like Vector Manipulation(Something that falls under Physical Laws) which is why it's only granted a "Possibly" rating

There are many verses that have very limited lesser abilities stemming from some overarching use of a more Hax ability but we don't assume those abilities are immune to tinestop simply because of that

You could have the ability to create fire by manipulating causality or warping reality or manipulating concepts but we don't assume that because of that either you, your ability or the fire you create with it can bypass a time stop if you don't have feats
TheHeavenlySword said:
Your oversimplifying it, Beatrice's E M M which grant a similar affect to Regulus's Authority was literally stated to be "side stepping from the plane of existence"
Click to expand...
I'm not over simplifying anything, I'm pointing out that these 2 abilities have no actual relation to one another in terms of the specifically explained mechanics which they function under

You guys are conflating and trying to cross scale 2 seperate abilities achieved via completely different methods

I already pointed out that you can't just choose another ability with a similar end result (Being uninteractable) and claim that Regulus' authority actually function the same way despite the clearly evident fact that it doesn't while trying to scale showing of that ability to Regulus despite there being no connection.

TheHeavenlySword said:
If you want time stop then even Beatrice and Satella can use it and neither of them can provide any invincibility (Beatrice's Minya shatters the target's body by stopping it's time, and Satella can crush Subaru and Emilia's hearts even thou time was stopped)
Click to expand...
I already answered this pages ago
Beatrice's timestop 'Minya' is a curse that has more than one effect acting alongside it which is responsible for it killing targets because it manifests as the same purple crystal that reduces the force of their existence then eventually shatters alongside them to kill (The time stop itself has built in properties that kill the target) but even ignoring that if the fact that it killed the target alone is you're proof of something it won't matter because Regulus' own timestop stops his heart and would kill him ordinarily if he used it for more than a few seconds at a time if not for the fact that he spreads his heart across his wives.

There's variation in how Timestop is portrayed across various series when it comes to how characters are able to interact with stuff affected by. Clock stopper from worm makes objects invulnerable to harm by stopping their time but that doesn't make his timestop Acausality or make the objects locked in timestop acausal. Usually the rules under which things timestopped operate depend on the series but non of that difference matters at all because the wiki doesn't have a rule that automatically treats uninteractable forms of time stop as acausal
Click to expand...
Regulus own time stop will kill him if not for his ability to share his heart between his wives, if your only evidence for differentiating Beatrice & Stella's times stops is that they can kill others and allow progression to cause damage then Regulus is no different because his own literally would kill him without his other supplementary power.

And again even if these aren't the case non of that is equivalent to acausality - Like I said before beings already even on the Wiki have time stops that render the target invulnerable (,Like clock blocker, Ren Fuji and Ziel) but non of that grants acausality

TheHeavenlySword said:
Also I don't think the gospel should be used as an argument anymore, Echidna's book which (if i'm not wrong) is just a more clear version of the gospel was able to see the original events that occurred in the Elior Forrest even thou Pandora has altered them by removing Regulus.
Click to expand...
Pandora's causality manipulation doesn't inherently delete memories unless she specifically wants to use it for that, most causality manipulation in fiction doesn't delete memories of the past events nor record or knowledge of it - Look at Misogi Kumagawa he can delete things from causality such that they never existed on a literal universal scale but everyone can still remember (We don't assume these people have acausality type 4 for that reason nor do we assume they memories/senses that can for some reason bypass acausality type 4 for this reason)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mizuki67
Light Novel Tensura characters are not affected by Time Paradox and it is real
Replies
30
Views
3K
Tempestdragon6
Tempestdragon6
Lynieryz
[Re:Zero] Removing planetary range
Replies
13
Views
2K
SatellaTheWoE
SatellaTheWoE
Pepsimanslover_69
  • Locked
Odin Acausality removal| God of War
Replies
6
Views
988
Planck69
Planck69
Jeeeeepil123
  • Locked
Yan Sen Acausality Negation Removal
Replies
11
Views
982
Jeeeeepil123
Jeeeeepil123
Furina003
  • Locked
Addition Ability Raiden Shogun & The Doctor (Genshin Impact)
Replies
6
Views
483
Furina003
Furina003
Back
Top