Touma tries to pet a slime

[The_Anti_Void]

Touma and Rimuru meet -> They get along -> Touma accidently touches Rimuru -> Funeral.

 

[Elizhaa]

I mean to ask; does Touma's IB negate passive but I am not sure?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I mean to ask; does Touma's IB negate passive but I am not sure?

Yes, it does

 

[Elizhaa]

Ah, I thought so but I wanted to be sure. Got it; thanks

 

[GLHF22]

Did Touma hand can Null natural phenomenon? Like earth, water, fire, light?

Rimuru more than capable to use physics magic which is him controlling natural phenomenon such as sunlight.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Did Touma hand can Null natural phenomenon? Like earth, water, fire, light?
Rimuru more than capable to use physics magic which is him controlling natural phenomenon such as sunlight.

If Rimuru is controlling them, yes

 

[GLHF22]

No, no Rimuru controlling them doesnt makes them become supernatural phenomenon, let say you throw water from the bucket does that mean the water become supernatural?.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No, no Rimuru controlling then doesnt makes them become supernatural phenomenon, let say you throw water from the bucket does that mean the water become supernatural?.

Boi, thats how it works in verse

Rimuru is changing their state by controlling, so IB nulls it, reverting to the original state

 

[GLHF22]

You clearly doesnt understand how Rimuru physical magic work,

This focus the energy of the sun into a devastating heat beam capable of reaching thousands of degrees. The constructs disintegrate after use, but the energy needed to replace and maintain them is very little. Because they are clear, thin lenses of suspended water, the constructs are almost impossible to see.

The size and number of lenses can be changed to varying effects: decimating 1000 armored soldiers in a single shot to killing a single target instantly and without sound. By using Water magic to create droplets of water in the shape of convex lenses in the sky, Rimuru condenses sunlight to the point where it becomes a massive laser beam which is similar to using magnifying glass.

Due to the low requirements of water magic, the water droplets can continually be replaced when they evaporate. The Massive energy beam is a physical phenomenon, and therefore cannot be blocked by magic disrupting barriers.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Ok, and? What does that have to do with anything posted above? You asked if he could null the attacks (which he can), not survive

 

[GLHF22]

So you use magnifying glass to create a laser then Touma can negate it?

 

[Elizhaa]

Rimuru is changing their state by controlling, so IB nulls it, reverting to the original state

Yeah, I followed the verse; I agree since Touma show to be able to this kind of feat.

 

[Elizhaa]

That said, for attacks like Rimuru's Megiddo, Touma won't able to nullify hundreds of thousand separated attacks at once

 

[GLHF22]

Or you use flamethrower and Touma can also negate it? Then why Touma cant negate a fking gun?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So you use magnifying glass to create a laser then Touma can negate it?

...Whats your point? I just said that he can null whatever natural phenomena if Rimuru interacts with it. Meggido is done through supernatural stuff aka magic (you literally mentioned magic in the first sentence so I didnt even need to read the rest), so it gets nulled

Of course, he cant null everything but that wasnt even my point

 

[Elizhaa]

Or you use flamethrower and Touma can also negate it? Then why Touma cant negate a fking gun?

He can't negate real things' effects. But, he can negated supernatural effects made on non-supernatural things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Megido is not magic.

 

[GLHF22]

...Whats your point? I just said that he can null whatever natural phenomena if Rimuru interacts with it. Meggido is done through supernatural stuff aka magic (you literally mentioned magic in the first sentence so I didnt even need to read the rest), so it gets nulled

Of course, he cant null everything but that wasnt even my point

I mean dude, its not magic, he just use some droplet of water (yes this is Made of magic but the sunlight remain natural phenomenon) to create lens and then concenctrate sunlight to create a fking beam, the sunlight remain natural.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Exactly, the droplets are made of magic, so the supernatural phenomena is interacting with the natural one (or vice versa), thus it gets nulled and reversed by IB

 

[Elizhaa]

Exactly, the droplets are made of magic, so the supernatural phenomena is interacting with the natural one (or vice versa), thus it gets nulled and reversed by IB

No, they are not magic; the whole points that Rimuru made them was to bypassed Magic Barriers that protect against Magic abilities.

You can make make the argument that Touma can negated since the effects since they were from something supernatural , if I am getting iit right.


Edit: Nevermind, I thought it was light mentioned not droplets

 

[XDragnoir]

Yeah, he can null a Railguns and iron sand, for example.

 

[JBennett]

The droplets of water are interacting with the light and amplifing it in a way that water doesn't normally do, I'm pretty sure water doesn't amplify light but dispurse it( I think, I don't truly know if so then I'm pretty sure the ligt would have to be concentraded in the first place). And the water are magically manipulated.

The reason that the Anti-magic barriers don't stop the attack is due to how the barrier works while IB is different, it normalizes things that have their value distorted.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, he can null a Railguns and iron sand, for example.

Yeah, I know. hence, I think Touma can negate attacks from Megiddo; though, he still thinks think he won't negated everything since attacks from Megiddo should be numbers in the high thousands.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, this debate wouldn't even be needed if Touma was the one who defeated Kakine, since he also uses normal sunlight powered by "magic" to attack.

 

[GLHF22]

1) the sunlight just become more concentrated and so formed a laser beam

2) the novel itself stated that its not magic but a natural phenomenon.

3) No, the light is not powred by magic.

4) Yes, thats just normal sunlight.

Logically which one is correct? your statement, or the skill description itself?.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

1) Concetrated through droplets of magic, which is enough

2) A natural phenomena done through droplets of magic

3) It doesnt need to be

4) Normal sunlight being controlled/affected by the supernatural

 

[XDragnoir]

Mikoto's railgun is coin launched at mach 3 speed, IB still nulls.

 

[Elizhaa]

Mikoto's railgun is coin launched at mach 3 speed, IB still nulls.

My point is not the speed but Touma's reaction. I doubt he can nullify thousands of attacks aiming at different parts of his body.

 

[XDragnoir]

My comment was directed to GLHF, sorry, i should have quoted his comment.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ah, no problem.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Only the droplets themselves are made supernaturally. No supernatural effects whatsoever are applied to the light itself, even the concentration of the light beams is done without any additional magical effects. Ultiamtely there is no trace of "supernatural tinkering" left after the beams go through the lenses.

Or what? If someone used a supernatural ability to jump tens of meters into the air while holding a gigantic rock and then drop it, would Touma's imagine breaker make the rock disappear because it was "carried up via supernatural means"? If that were the case then during Touma vs Accelerator (first encounter) the objects that Accelerator hurled toward Touma would be negated too, but they weren't.

Oh right, Rimuru can just shoot water from his stomach. Even if it's slowed down, it'd eventually overwhelm Touma and make him be helplessly carried away by the flood until he drowns. But no, Rimuru headshots Touma low-dif via Megiddo. Probably a stomp, actually, since Rimuru has many ways to win the fight, while for Touma he needs rather specific conditions to even have a chance. Either by touching or via IT/Dragon.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Again, the droplets are making the light change their natural state, so IB negates it (not to mention that the light is also interacting with the droplets which is enough for IB to negate)

 

[NeoSuperior]

No they aren't. They are not "imbueing" any supernatural effects on the light, they are just for all intents and purposes normal lenses as far as the light going through is concerned. Contrary to the Railgun, it doesn't leave any supernatural traces like the remaining static electicity or whatever remains within an an object accelerated by a railgun in physics. That is the vital difference.

And you didn't address my "jumping high via supernatual means and drop a rock doesn't make the rock disappear when touched by imagine breaker" counter example.

 

[XDragnoir]

Touma doesn't null only the static remaining in a railgun, he nulls the KE of the coin, and he nulled Acqua final attack entire KE, which is still the KE of a 5m iron mace and a man falling from the sky, just because a bit of magic was added.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

>No they aren't. They are not "imbueing" any supernatural effects on the light

It doesnt need to imbue anything, just interacting and changing the natural state is enough

>jumping high via supernatural means and dropping a kick

The rock stops being interacted by the supernatural in the moment the guy drops the rock. This isnt the case with the droplets

 

[PhantomØ4]

Wow, this fun and games thread really is something huh.

 

[NeoSuperior]

The rock stops being interacted by the supernatural in the moment the guy drops the rock. This isnt the case with the droplets

??? What's different about that? Explain.

 

[XDragnoir]

Is that really needed? Fun and Games, rimuru has other way to kill Touma.

 

[NeoSuperior]

That true, XDragnoir even if Touma can block it, it's useless to do so from all directions at once. Rimuru can just continue doing it for years without tiring while Touma would show fatigue after a few minutes at best. Or Rimuru can send Touma drowning in a flood. He can even just drop things on Touma from his stomach.

 

[GLHF22]

Ah yes, Accel throwing things with His vector manip, why Touma cant negate the object he throw? Explain please