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Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

Does Eternatus' power nullification affect equipment (Aside from natural abilities) by any chance?
 
deonment said:
No, it only passively negates attacks (moves) and dynamaxing (which isn't really that relevant outside of pokemon)
Click to expand...
In that case, Jimmy Neutron tied for the 8th spot in High 6-A, more specifically speed unequalized. On top of his many inventions (Some of which are capable of bypassing durability), Jimmy is also 8 trillion times faster than light which means he can speedblitz a lot of the characters below Eternatus. Unfortunately, however, if speed is equalized, Jimmy gets screwed over by thought-based moves from the lower placements, hence why I suggest that he should get a Speed Unequalized spot next to Eternatus.

Also, remove the FOP characters from Low 7-B and 6-C as they just got upgraded.
 
deonment said:
No, it only passively negates attacks (moves) and dynamaxing (which isn't really that relevant outside of pokemon)
Click to expand...
It also negates the effects of equipment(Held Items) that targets Eternatus, but it does not negate the effect of equipment that targets someone other than Eternatus.
 
Bobsican said:
No character is directly mentioned as an example for me to corroborate this,
Click to expand...
these guys

can sora survive these passives?
Reality Warping (Shadow Magic warps reality passively), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, Conceptual abilities, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to himself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to him), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards him), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction
 
Hatou Manabu was ranked above what a beautiful series once.
Why was she removed completely? Idk if something changed that makes her place above What A Beautiful Series outdated, but I can guarantee that she is at least above the Aburatori. I'm also fairly sure that Slappy would get erased by her before he can do anything.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Uni+ range is 4-D. She's smurf by default
Click to expand...
Not when via time abilities, otherwise you would need to remove all time travelers. There was a debate in the past that 4D stuff via time abilities is not counted as smurf.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Not when via time abilities, otherwise you would need to remove all time travelers.
Click to expand...
"Universal+ (Her observations can affect the entire universe, its past and its future), Can switch between infinite possibilities"

Past and future= uni+ bullshit

And the latter is blatantly 2-A

The problem is not that she time travels, if she's affecting both past and future, she's not just time traveling.
 
DaReaperMan said:
"Universal+ (Her observations can affect the entire universe, its past and its future), Can switch between infinite possibilities"

Past and future= uni+ bullshit

And the latter is blatantly 2-A

The problem is not that she time travels, if she's affecting both past and future, she's not just time traveling.
Click to expand...
Nah, it is not 2-A. There was pretty much a CRT in the past whether she's multiversal and she isn't.

It's quantum mechanics. In the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, if a coin toss is done (assuming for simplicity it's actually random), the universe ends up in a superposition of "universe where coin landed head" and "universe where coin landed tail" until it's observed which option was true. That's not a superpower thing, that happens for every human in real life.
These superpositions could end up pretty different. Like, imagine a galaxy-destroying bomb is rigged to explode if the coin lands head. Until the coin or the explosion is observed, there is a superposition of destroyed and intact galaxy. Both exist simultanously. (See Schrödingers Cat for the same idea at smaller scale)

What Hatou does is nothing but to combine that with time travel. Imagine you life in the universe where the coin landed head and the galaxy is destroyed. You like the galaxy, so you go back in time to before the coin was tossed. You observe the coin toss a second time and by random chance it lands tails. So now your observation has brought back a galaxy once you go back to the present.
You could take that even further. Go back to the big bang and slightly change something. By the butterfly effect, the modern universe will probably look completely different.

What Hatou can do in that regard any other time traveler can do as well. What makes Hatou special are just two things:
1. She utilizes this power incredibly well.
2. She at some point learned that instead of going through all those steps personally, she can just use her hivemind to have a past version of herself already have gone through the time travel steps, so that she can just switch from no galaxy to galaxy without the steps in-between.

Still, fundamentally, it's just the combination of timetravel and regular human interaction with quantum mechanics. You can also look at her respect blog for more details.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Nah, it is not 2-A. There was pretty much a CRT in the past whether she's multiversal and she isn't.

It's quantum mechanics. In the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, if a coin toss is done (assuming for simplicity it's actually random), the universe ends up in a superposition of "universe where coin landed head" and "universe where coin landed tail" until it's observed which option was true. That's not a superpower thing, that happens for every human in real life.
These superpositions could end up pretty different. Like, imagine a galaxy-destroying bomb is rigged to explode if the coin lands head. Until the coin or the explosion is observed, there is a superposition of destroyed and intact galaxy. Both exist simultanously. (See Schrödingers Cat for the same idea at smaller scale)

What Hatou does is nothing but to combine that with time travel. Imagine you life in the universe where the coin landed head and the galaxy is destroyed. You like the galaxy, so you go back in time to before the coin was tossed. You observe the coin toss a second time and by random chance it lands tails. So now your observation has brought back a galaxy.
You could take that even further. Go back to the big bang and slightly change something. By the butterfly effect, the modern universe will probably look completely different.

What Hatou can do in that regard any other time traveler can do as well. What makes Hatou special are just two things:
1. She utilizes this power incredibly well.
2. She at some point learned that instead of going through all those steps personally, she can just use her hivemind to have a past version of herself already have gone through the time travel steps, so that she can just switch from no galaxy to galaxy without the steps in-between.

Still, fundamentally, it's just the combination of timetravel and regular human interaction with quantum mechanics. You can also look at her respect blog for more details.
Click to expand...
Then remove Uni+ range from her page if you're so adamant about this, because as it stands that is 4-D smurf range exclusively

You ain't about to argue a 9-B with a Low 2-C nuke(just an example) isn't a smurf because that nuking is done via quantum mechanics
 
DaReaperMan said:
Then remove Uni+ range from her page if you're so adamant about this, because as it stands that is 4-D smurf range exclusively
Click to expand...
Problem is that via time travel she can affect nearly any place in space and time, which justifies that range. Like, Hatou can make a version of herself (a part of her hivemind) that exists at the time of the big bang travel to the andromeda galaxy so that this version can kick a pebble there 1 billion years ago.
Or, as said, she could lightly change conditions of the big bang via a version that exists at that time to make the whole universe different via butterfly effect. And contrary to other time travelers (some of which could certainly do that as well) she actually considers such moves.

If you have a suggestion how to classify being able to have an affect on any specific point of time and space using time travel in a different way than Uni+ range, tell me. Then I might make a CRT for it. As it stands, I see no other way to classify it, despite it not being smurf. (or more smurf than basically any other time travel ability)

Edit: Like, I guess the inherent question is, how do you classify the range of a hive mind and do butterfly effect count for range if they are intentional?
DaReaperMan said:
You ain't about to argue a 9-B with a Low 2-C nuke(just an example) isn't a smurf because that nuking is done via quantum mechanics
Click to expand...
Difference is that she doesn't have a nuke. She can't destroy the universe at all. She can only make an alternate course of history happen. There's a reason she isn't Low 2-C.
 
Last edited:
DontTalkDT said:
Problem is that via time travel she can affect nearly any place in space and time, which justifies that range. Like, Hatou can make a version of herself (a part of her hivemind) that exists at the time of the big bang travel to the andromeda galaxy so that this version can kick a pebble there 1 billion years ago.
Or, as said, she could lightly change conditions of the big bang via a version that exists at that time to make the whole universe different via butterfly effect. And contrary to other time travelers (some of which could certainly do that as well) she actually considers such moves.

If you have a suggestion how to classify being able to have an affect on any specific point of time and space using time travel in a different way than Uni+ range, tell me. Then I might make a CRT for it. As it stands, I see no other way to classify it, despite it not being smurf. (or more smurf than basically any other time travel ability)

Edit: Like, I guess the inherent question is, how do you classify the range of a hive mind and do butterfly effect count for range if they are intentional?
Click to expand...
"Universal+: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within a single 4-dimensional space-time continuum."

This is from the range page, Hatou from what I can gather has a 4-D Hive Mind, AKA Immortality, due to her range
DontTalkDT said:
Difference is that she doesn't have a nuke. She can't destroy the universe at all. She can only make an alternate course of history happen. There's a reason she isn't Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
DT, the point is that smurfing bad and not on this question
 
DaReaperMan said:
"Universal+: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within a single 4-dimensional space-time continuum."
Click to expand...
Soooooo? Is she or is she not?
DaReaperMan said:
This is from the range page, Hatou from what I can gather has a 4-D Hive Mind, AKA Immortality, due to her range
Click to expand...
Her hive-mind is entirely made up from 3D individuals, so it's not a 4D hive mind. (unless you want to argue it's uncountably many)
DaReaperMan said:
DT, the point is that smurfing bad and not on this question
Click to expand...
The point is it isn't smurfing.


Anyway, I guess I will do a CRT to see what others think on how to rank that range.
 
Robo432343 said:
these guys

can sora survive these passives?
Reality Warping (Shadow Magic warps reality passively), Mind Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Willpower Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Power Nullification (Nullifies all forms of magic and non-magic spells/techniques that are associated with the 7 Schools of Magic, Shadow Magic, Astral Magic, Conceptual abilities, physical damage, and healing), Resistance Negation, Power Absorption (Absorbs PIPs (energy), charms (offensive buffs), shields (defensive buffs), and Healing), Probability Manipulation (Reduces opponents' Accuracy by 100% and his own Accuracy by 100%. Increases the chances of dealing a critical attack by 100% and blocking critical attacks by 100%), Statistics Amplification (Increases Healing, Resistance, Resistance Negation and Accuracy) Statistics Reduction (Decreases Healing, Resistance, Damage Output and Accuracy by 100% individually), Aura (Damage over time to enemies and Heal over time to himself and allies), Summoning (Summons creatures which intercept 100% of the damage dealt to him), Life Force Absorption, Empathic Manipulation (Calms targets, making them less aggressive towards him), Transmutation, Damage Transferal, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Damage Boost, Damage Reduction
Click to expand...
First link doesn't work, but I presume you mean the player.

Anyways, Sora resists all of the hax mentioned but the Probability Manip and Damage Transferal (although Sora's resistances on his part are currently baseline, so it really depends on what exactly the Resistance Negation bit covers). Regardless, they don't have a way to circumvent the passive fate manip or the High-Godly type 8 immortality, nor do they resist type 2 info manip.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
In that case, Jimmy Neutron tied for the 8th spot in High 6-A, more specifically speed unequalized. On top of his many inventions (Some of which are capable of bypassing durability), Jimmy is also 8 trillion times faster than light which means he can speedblitz a lot of the characters below Eternatus. Unfortunately, however, if speed is equalized, Jimmy gets screwed over by thought-based moves from the lower placements, hence why I suggest that he should get a Speed Unequalized spot next to Eternatus.

Also, remove the FOP characters from Low 7-B and 6-C as they just got upgraded.
Click to expand...
added
 
Setsuna_tenma said:
what is ALWA 1A ap accepted infinitely baseline, or more
Click to expand...
everything12 said this
"I'm pretty sure they are technically several infinities above baseline considering how infinity was thrown about like candy. But yeah, they still only reach levels that are quantitatively higher and so are still baseline layer."
 
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