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Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

Dragonite007 said:
added
Click to expand...
As already discussed, Eternatus' Power Null works on the effects of equipment that targets it, so Jimmy wouldn't have Wincon even with unequal speed.

And even without considering this, it is against the rules of the thread, placing Jimmy above characters he loses at equalized speed.

The rule of sharing the place with unequal speed works in such a way that if you don't beat an opponent at equal speed but defeat with unequal speed you can have the same position but this rule does not exempt you from the fact that you have to start with the opponents from the lowest position and it would apply to the first character Jimmy lost at equalized speed.
 
Megaraptor149 said:
I hope this loli eldritch get spot in 9-C.
Click to expand...
Added
Lynieryz said:
As already discussed, Eternatus' Power Null works on the effects of equipment that targets it, so Jimmy wouldn't have Wincon even with unequal speed.

And even without considering this, it is against the rules of the thread, placing Jimmy above characters he loses at equalized speed.

The rule of sharing the place with unequal speed works in such a way that if you don't beat an opponent at equal speed but defeat with unequal speed you can have the same position but this rule does not exempt you from the fact that you have to start with the opponents from the lowest position and it would apply to the first character Jimmy lost at equalized speed.
Click to expand...
Changed
 
Me realizing in order for my boy Johnny Test to get placed in top 15 strongest 7-A non-smurfs, he has to go through Garou (OPM goons finna go crazy):

big-show-crying.gif


But uh, Johnny seems to be in High 8-C already (shockingly in the top 5), so how would he fair against the people in the 8-A, 7-C, and 7-A rankings?
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Me realizing in order for my boy Johnny Test to get placed in top 15 strongest 7-A non-smurfs, he has to go through Garou (OPM goons finna go crazy):

big-show-crying.gif


But uh, Johnny seems to be in High 8-C already (shockingly in the top 5), so how would he fair against the people in the 8-A, 7-C, and 7-A rankings?
Click to expand...
Eh, why he have a varies tier?
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Me realizing in order for my boy Johnny Test to get placed in top 15 strongest 7-A non-smurfs, he has to go through Garou (OPM goons finna go crazy):

big-show-crying.gif


But uh, Johnny seems to be in High 8-C already (shockingly in the top 5), so how would he fair against the people in the 8-A, 7-C, and 7-A rankings?
Click to expand...
8-A has Mahito and Junko (Soul hax and Madness)

7-C has Garou and Chicken (Skill stomp and Nuke go brrr)

7-A has Garou and Andy (Skill stomp and Low Godly)
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Me realizing in order for my boy Johnny Test to get placed in top 15 strongest 7-A non-smurfs, he has to go through Garou (OPM goons finna go crazy):

big-show-crying.gif


But uh, Johnny seems to be in High 8-C already (shockingly in the top 5), so how would he fair against the people in the 8-A, 7-C, and 7-A rankings?
Click to expand...
Crowfather turns him into a popsicle, and he doesn't seem to have anything to beat Crocodile
 
Lynieryz said:
The rule of sharing the place with unequal speed works in such a way that if you don't beat an opponent at equal speed but defeat with unequal speed you can have the same position but this rule does not exempt you from the fact that you have to start with the opponents from the lowest position and it would apply to the first character Jimmy lost at equalized speed.
Click to expand...
I don't think that has ever been specified, actually.

You're saying that if a character is MFTL+ and he defeats everyone in unequal speed, he could still be at the lowest spot if he lost at speed equal to the 15th?

That seems pretty unfair IMO, actually.

What if a FTL+ character appears in the same tier, what would we do then? Have both of them at 15th even tho they defeat everyone in the list at speed unequal or would we remove the FTL+ because in speed unequal he doesn't beat the MFTL+?

IMO, we should rank them based on the highest they can go at speed unequal rather than rank them based on a mix of unequal and equal speed results.
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
Eh, why he have a varies tier?
Click to expand...
Because characters like Johnny who have Toon Force tend to vary in tiers.

Before I start mentioning what Johnny can do, I need to clarify that a decent portion of Johnny's hax require preparation prior to the battle.
Dragonite007 said:
8-A has Mahito and Junko (Soul hax and Madness)
Click to expand...
Johnny might actually have the perfect counter to Junko's Madness Manipulation. Johnny's Empathic Manipulation with 'The Irresistible Making Machine' heightens the users most attractive DNA traits to make them irresistible. When used in higher dosages, people who are normally mean to him will act nice to him, and are more than willing to do anything for him. He's irresistible to the point of obsession, which causes the town to chase after him and even sell merch of him across the city. While Johnny uses it here for normally mundane things, Junko will still be virtually under Johnny's control, and she'd be more than willing to do anything she wants him to do, so the chances of Junko's Madness Manipulation coming into play here are pretty low unless someone has a good refute.

I think the same applies to Mahito here, as he'd be unwilling to use Soul Manipulation on Johnny via his Empathic Manipulation.

Johnny can basically do anything he wants to either Mahito or Junko while they're in his control, such as Possession, Sleep Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, and most importantly his Matter Manipulation via The Maginator, which gives Johnny "magical powers", which allows him to transport people to different places, make people, and objects disappear, turn people into animals, teleport himself and others, and much more.

Unless someone has a good refute to these arguments, I think Johnny can beat Junko and Mahito.

Dragonite007 said:
7-C has Garou and Chicken (Skill stomp and Nuke go brrr)
Click to expand...
Tbh I'm gonna sound a bit like a broken record here, but would Garou and Chicken be willing to do anything to Johnny via Empathic Manipulation? Can the Chicken use the Nuclear Bomb at any given time?

Dragonite007 said:
7-A has Garou and Andy (Skill stomp and Low Godly)
Click to expand...
Andy's going to be difficult, because even if Johnny can do whatever he wants with Andy, because he has no way of hurting Andy permanently thanks to his Low-Godly, and he can't use his Matter Manipulation to make him disappear, so his only option I can see where he can win definitively is via BFR (he can use his Matter Manipulation to transport Andy to a different place), which, by SBA standards, should give him the win.

Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Because characters like Johnny who have Toon Force tend to vary in tiers.

Before I start mentioning what Johnny can do, I need to clarify that a decent portion of Johnny's hax require preparation prior to the battle.

Johnny might actually have the perfect counter to Junko's Madness Manipulation. Johnny's Empathic Manipulation with 'The Irresistible Making Machine' heightens the users most attractive DNA traits to make them irresistible. When used in higher dosages, people who are normally mean to him will act nice to him, and are more than willing to do anything for him. He's irresistible to the point of obsession, which causes the town to chase after him and even sell merch of him across the city. While Johnny uses it here for normally mundane things, Junko will still be virtually under Johnny's control, and she'd be more than willing to do anything she wants him to do, so the chances of Junko's Madness Manipulation coming into play here are pretty low unless someone has a good refute.

I think the same applies to Mahito here, as he'd be unwilling to use Soul Manipulation on Johnny via his Empathic Manipulation.

Johnny can basically do anything he wants to either Mahito or Junko while they're in his control, such as Possession, Sleep Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, and most importantly his Matter Manipulation via The Maginator, which gives Johnny "magical powers", which allows him to transport people to different places, make people, and objects disappear, turn people into animals, teleport himself and others, and much more.

Unless someone has a good refute to these arguments, I think Johnny can beat Junko and Mahito.
Click to expand...
You'd have to prove Johnny can empathy hax Data.

Especially since Johnny is in EXTREMELY real danger of getting Social Influenced into losing and Junko doesn't exactly have to be there.
 
CodeCCLL said:
I agree, but speedsters should continue to not be allowed to place higher spots through incon matches based on speed difference.
Click to expand...
Ehhh, that's completely case by case IMO.

If a speedster incons the Top 1 in speed unequal, why wouldn't they share the spot? Only cases I could see they not sharing is if the speedster loses to absolutely everyone else in the tier and somehow defeats the top 1 (we have a "rule" against specific counters getting spots since a random rock beat Culexus Assassin)

Also, I've a strange feeling what you're saying would conflict with the "rule" that simply being hard to kill (and thus also forcing incons) don't let you have higher spots, who is forcing the incon and gets the lower spot in this case? They would just end up sharing the spot anyway like any other incon born from "whoever hits first" cases or other forms of incon.
 
XDragnoir said:
If a speedster incons the Top 1 in speed unequal, why wouldn't they share the spot?
Click to expand...
I think that in order for two characters to share the same place, they must win mutually, both in situations where the speed is equal and when it is not. In my opinion, a character x is weaker than character y if it: loses against character y when speed is equal, but cannot win against character y even when speed is not equal.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Because characters like Johnny who have Toon Force tend to vary in tiers.

Before I start mentioning what Johnny can do, I need to clarify that a decent portion of Johnny's hax require preparation prior to the battle.

Johnny might actually have the perfect counter to Junko's Madness Manipulation. Johnny's Empathic Manipulation with 'The Irresistible Making Machine' heightens the users most attractive DNA traits to make them irresistible. When used in higher dosages, people who are normally mean to him will act nice to him, and are more than willing to do anything for him. He's irresistible to the point of obsession, which causes the town to chase after him and even sell merch of him across the city. While Johnny uses it here for normally mundane things, Junko will still be virtually under Johnny's control, and she'd be more than willing to do anything she wants him to do, so the chances of Junko's Madness Manipulation coming into play here are pretty low unless someone has a good refute.

I think the same applies to Mahito here, as he'd be unwilling to use Soul Manipulation on Johnny via his Empathic Manipulation.

Johnny can basically do anything he wants to either Mahito or Junko while they're in his control, such as Possession, Sleep Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, and most importantly his Matter Manipulation via The Maginator, which gives Johnny "magical powers", which allows him to transport people to different places, make people, and objects disappear, turn people into animals, teleport himself and others, and much more.

Unless someone has a good refute to these arguments, I think Johnny can beat Junko and Mahito.


Tbh I'm gonna sound a bit like a broken record here, but would Garou and Chicken be willing to do anything to Johnny via Empathic Manipulation? Can the Chicken use the Nuclear Bomb at any given time?


Andy's going to be difficult, because even if Johnny can do whatever he wants with Andy, because he has no way of hurting Andy permanently thanks to his Low-Godly, and he can't use his Matter Manipulation to make him disappear, so his only option I can see where he can win definitively is via BFR (he can use his Matter Manipulation to transport Andy to a different place), which, by SBA standards, should give him the win.

Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day.
Click to expand...
Mahito is invisible and has passive fear hax, I don't know much more about him
Junko is a IA, so Johnny would need proof that his emphatic hax can affect her
Garou has Willpower and The Limiter, which gives resistance emphatic hax
Andy I don't know
Johnny don't have enough range to affect Chicken before he active the Nuke
 
CodeCCLL said:
I think that in order for two characters to share the same place, they must win mutually, both in situations where the speed is equal and when it is not.
Click to expand...
I mean, yeah, that's how it works, one of them wins in speed equal and the other in speed unequal, we were talking about incons here tho not wins.

CodeCCLL said:
In my opinion, a character x is weaker than character y if it: loses against character y when speed is equal, but cannot win against character y even when speed is not equal.
Click to expand...
Did you say the same thing twice here or did I miss the context?
 
XDragnoir said:
I mean, yeah, that's how it works, one of them wins in speed equal and the other in speed unequal, we were talking about incons here tho not wins.


Did you say the same thing twice here or did I miss the context?
Click to expand...
CodeCCLL said:
but speedsters should continue to not be allowed to place higher spots through incon matches based on speed difference.
Click to expand...
To explain it more clearly, in my opinion, this is basically the system that should exist.

1) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(Incon)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Incon)
Conclusion: X and Y share the same spot.

2) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(X win against Y)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Y win against X)
Conclusion: X and Y share the same spot.

3) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(X win against Y)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Incon)
Conclusion: X (First Rank) and Y (Second Rank)
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Johnny might actually have the perfect counter to Junko's Madness Manipulation. Johnny's Empathic Manipulation with 'The Irresistible Making Machine' heightens the users most attractive DNA traits to make them irresistible. When used in higher dosages, people who are normally mean to him will act nice to him, and are more than willing to do anything for him. He's irresistible to the point of obsession, which causes the town to chase after him and even sell merch of him across the city. While Johnny uses it here for normally mundane things, Junko will still be virtually under Johnny's control, and she'd be more than willing to do anything she wants him to do, so the chances of Junko's Madness Manipulation coming into play here are pretty low unless someone has a good refute.
Click to expand...
Holy shit that is the worst ever try to do to Junko to win against her

Buddy she would not care, she would still try to drive him to Despair because of how her character is, she would be ******* elated by the prospect of doing that to someone she loves (given she already does it to herself)
 
Dragonite007 said:
Mahito is invisible and has passive fear hax, I don't know much more about him
Click to expand...
But he doesn't resist Johnny's Empathic hax, so Mahito would be unwilling to harm Johnny and do whatever he asks, but on the other hand, Johnny can't see him, which in turn makes him incapable of harming him.

Dragonite007 said:
Garou has Willpower and The Limiter, which gives resistance emphatic hax
Click to expand...
Damn bruh.

So how does Garou respond to Matter Manipulation (getting BFR'd, Johnny making him disappear, etc.)?

Dragonite007 said:
ohnny don't have enough range to affect Chicken before he active the Nuke
Click to expand...
Johnny's Empathic hax affected the entire town of Porkbelly. It even affected Zizrar, mole who lives underground. For context, here's a visual image of where Zizrar lives at. If you don't understand, then it's safe to assume that Zizrar lives somewhere around the lithosphere, as Susan states to not go full speed when using the Atomic Earth Dozer or they'll damage the Lithosphere (for context, Zizrar and his mole people stole many things from the Earth's surface to plan an invasion, including Johnny's camera, so Johnny and Dukey go underground to retrieve everything).

So it's safe to say that Johnny's Empath hax affects people that even live below the Earth's surface, going as low as the Lithosphere.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
But he doesn't resist Johnny's Empathic hax, so Mahito would be unwilling to harm Johnny and do whatever he asks, but on the other hand, Johnny can't see him, which in turn makes him incapable of harming him.
Click to expand...
So Mahito loves Johnny and Johnny will always be afraid with a ghost in his back all time
RandomGuy2345 said:
So how does Garou respond to Matter Manipulation (getting BFR'd, Johnny making him disappear, etc.)?
Click to expand...
I don't know, what's the limit of the teletransport?

RandomGuy2345 said:
Johnny's Empathic hax affected the entire town of Porkbelly. It even affected Zizrar, mole who lives underground. For context, here's a visual image of where Zizrar lives at. If you don't understand, then it's safe to assume that Zizrar lives somewhere around the lithosphere, as Susan states to not go full speed when using the Atomic Earth Dozer or they'll damage the Lithosphere (for context, Zizrar and his mole people stole many things from the Earth's surface to plan an invasion, including Johnny's camera, so Johnny and Dukey go underground to retrieve everything).

So it's safe to say that Johnny's Empath hax affects people that even live below the Earth's surface, going as low as the Lithosphere.
Click to expand...
"Video unavailable in your country" How I love Johnny Test and WildBrain.

How fast the effect occurs? Chicken just need push a button to active the bomb
 
Dragonite007 said:
I don't know, what's the limit of the teletransport?
Click to expand...
He transported Gil from Porkbelly to France. That's the furthest it went. Of course, there's no stated limit, but that's the most it shown.

However, nothing's stopping Johnny from making Garou disappear.

Dragonite007 said:
"Video unavailable in your country" How I love Johnny Test and WildBrain.
Click to expand...
That's so stupid.

Dragonite007 said:
How fast the effect occurs? Chicken just need push a button to active the bomb
Click to expand...
It the effect occurs immediately. He just glows red all of a sudden and people are enamored by him.
 
CodeCCLL said:
To explain it more clearly, in my opinion, this is basically the system that should exist.

1) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(Incon)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Incon)
Conclusion: X and Y share the same spot.

2) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(X win against Y)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Y win against X)
Conclusion: X and Y share the same spiot.

3) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(X win against Y)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Incon)
Conclusion: X (First Rank) and Y (Second Rank)
Click to expand...
I don't see any difference between case 1 and 3 that would make Y not qualify for the speed unequal spot, the equal and unequal matches aren't some kind of two stage process to decide who is stronger, they are two unrelated matches with the same characters, it makes no sense to have an unrelated match affect the result of the other one.

Not only that, but why are we prioritizing equal speed to begin with? The canon speed and thus power level of the characters is their unequal speed, there's no logic in having the real version have a downside in comparison to the VSBW-nerfed version.
 
XDragnoir said:
Not only that, but why are we prioritizing equal speed to begin with? The canon speed and thus power level of the characters is their unequal speed, there's no logic in having the real version have a downside in comparison to the VSBW-nerfed version.
Click to expand...
Option 3 works both ways.
CodeCCLL said:
3) X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(X win against Y)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Incon)
Conclusion: X (First Rank) and Y (Second Rank)
Click to expand...
Option 3 Alternative)
X vs Y; Speed Equal:
(Incon)
X vs Y: Speed Unequal:
(Y win against X)
Conclusion: Y (First Rank) and X (Second Rank)
XDragnoir said:
the equal and unequal matches aren't some kind of two stage process to decide who is stronger
Click to expand...
Currently, the speed equalization system favors the slower character, if the process is in two stages, it would be fair for both fast and slow characters.
 
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