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Top 10 Strongest Swordsmen 2

Considering all the alternatives you've mentioned are made literally impossible by the description of the technique, the fact that Ikki also doesn't know Assassin has that up his sleeve, the fact that Assassin also has a premonition-like sixth sense for danger, and the fact that he can also kill his presence to the point you don't think he's there, I kinda think I am not dodging anything.
 
>Ikki doesn't know

Well ikki's danger sense is to a level where he literally sees visions of what will happen, yeah pretty sure he will know. Also not much to know when you have reaction time 48x that of the assassin (hell Ikki can literally stab him after tsubame gaeshi has started)

>6th sense

As i said, Trackless Step is literally made to counter that.

>Kill his presence

I did say that as long as he physically exists ikki will know he's there right?

There are too many things to keep in mind. The fact that ikki is practically faster due to the no need for acceleration (cus he will reach you before you reach him due to you starting from 0 while he starts from top speed), the fact that he can create afterimages (which means he can just send afterimages to trick Tsubame Gaeshi), Perfect Vision and Insight (which mid series are amped to a point where he can use Insight even on the first time he sees a technique) etc.
 
Presence concealment is undetectable even by people who have senses better than ikki, to the point rhat only a few servants are able to detect servants that are using presencr concealment due to them having a skill that specifically allows it, and even THEN it onlyworks on the most basic levels of presence concealment
 
The venue was circular, and the sounds from the audience audience covered it. Within that sound was… a human-shaped void!

"Over there!"

It only took a split second for Ikki to switch from sight to sound, locate Sara, and cut towards her

As long as he exists he will apear as a human shaped void in sound. So yeah weekly...
 
Vitrification is way better normal pc it's around the level of the higher pc and works with the same principle as sphere boundary which makes you one with The World so you are undetectable

Also I want to point out, Sasaki is so skilled that Musashi, who is supposed to be equal to him with her nothingness, only survived because she had her mystic eyes and even then all that did was make her not be insta stomped, she at best would have just been able to stalemate him for eternity if the master didn't help and again she only managed this because of her eyes.
 
The thing is he doesn't exist technically

His being is merged with The World. He becomes completely indistinguishable from it, no senses magical or otherwise are able to notice him. You can look and you'd see nothing, you can listen and you'd hear nothing.

He wouldn't be an obstacle for sound because being one with The World would make you well, one with The World so he wouldn't be a "human shaped obstacle for sound" he would just notice the rest of The World
 
"technically"

Dude i mean he's physically there, fancy words won't work.

Also presence concealment doesn't make sound not bounce off you, ikki realizes the way the sound bounces off to determine your position, so again invisibility gets noped here.

There is a girl who used conceptual manip to hide her presence, it didn't work. This is not better, not by a long shot.
 
But it's not fancy words. He literally becomes one with The World

It's closer to Sphere Boundary or the really high rank pcs I'm effect than a lower rank pc that just makes you invisible. Sound wouldn't bounce off of you because you are one with The World so there would be nothing to notice.

Using conceptual manip to hide your presence is still just invisibility not becoming one with the universe/collective unconscious
 
"You are one with the world"

Dude he's physically a human, it's presence concealment, not intangibility.

And as i said, conceptual presence concealment didn't work on Ikki.

If he physically has a body ikki knows where he is.
 
"Conceptual PC didn't work". Huh?

Anyways, higher levels of PC are pretty bs. I mean, it can bypass both physical and spiritual detection skills most of the time. King Hassan is a good example. Not a single Servant could detect him until he was starting his attacks.
 
SchroKatze said:
"Conceptual PC didn't work". Huh?
Anyways, higher levels of PC are pretty bs. I mean, it can bypass both physical and spiritual detection skills most of the time. King Hassan is a good example. Not a single Servant could detect him until he was starting his attacks.
Click to expand...
"Detection skills"

Yeah, that's not intangibility. Only intangibility saves you from Ikki's senses.
 
I don't think you quite understand what sphere boundary or EX rank pc does exactly.

One with the World, physically indistinguishable from it. Sound wouldn't bounce off and leave a human shaped void. If it was that simple do you know how many people would stomp every assassin class servant in the grail wars? Presence concealment would be completely useless if the highest ranks of it were countered by echolocation.

Conceptually becoming invisible is still Invisibility adding the word conceptual doesn't make it more impressive

Since you are clearly going to keep pushing for this echolocation thing working despite the fact that he is indistinguishable from the rest of reality, how about you say why Ikki would use that. He has to switch to seeing with sound which he wouldn't know to do because Vitrification is passive so Assassin starts the fight invisible.

By your argument blind Fujino Asagami stomps King Hassan because she has echolocation
 
... You know that moving also produces sound, right Earl? He can literally use a megaphone and scream his name and no one will be able to detect him. Thats how PC works at higher levels. Echolocation gets noped, spiritual vision gets noped, seeing lower/higher frequencies on the spectrum gets noped.
 
Show me one guy doing what Ikki does and failing to notice them. Then let's debate.

About the switching to sound. He noticed the same thing on an invisible girl while he was just having fun with his friends.
 
Doing what hearing though sound? Aka echolocation which anyone, especially blind people can do with enough training? Fujino Asagami ovo

Literally any person with enhanced enough senses can see people through physical objects and see invisible things and they still can't notice high rank pc

So he noticed the invisible girl and then switched to sound. Too bad this wouldn't happen because he can't notice Sasaki until he Tsubame Gaeshis his head off
 
With presence concealment you can essentially drag a dead body through a crowd and no one will even be aware that youre there
 
Ikki is able to detect someone who is conceptually invisible so nothing they do can be detected normally. Sounds are "invisible" so they can't be heard or detected. Yet he was able to Perfect Vision him and dozens of his arrows.
 
Adding the word conceptual infront of invisibility doesn't make it more impressive, it's still just invisibility and doesn't change the argument that high rank pc/vitrification/sphere boundary still cant be sensed by people with better senses
 
Why would putting conceptual in front of it mean its superior to just invisibility. At the end of the day they are still just invisible.

Concealing noise is nice and all but again that's not the same as being one with The World
 
Again, conceptual invisibility is still just invisibility, adding the word conceptual infront of an ability doesn't inherently make it more impressive.

In what way is it superior to regular invisibility?
 
Yet, its countered by normal echolocation that even bats have? I'm calling bs on this one.
 
Just saying that "they are more invisible than normal" isn't enough to classify as conceptual. Otherwise, every assassin with pc would have conceptual invisibility.
 
yeah, detecting invisibility and others in spirit form is a common thing for servants. They still unable to detect average to high levels of presence concealment.
 
And, unless said invisibility that Ikki noped is something that "removes the very concept of being detected by any means", it ain't conceptual. Just being more invisible than normal invisibility isn't conceputal.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Echolocation works on Sara's invisibiloty but not the Hunters.
Click to expand...
... Detecting things by how sound bounces or just get past them still echolocation. Ikki noticed them by how sound "made a void" around them. Still just physical invisibility and not spiritual or etc.
 
No that's too specific, conceptual abilities can be many different things. It's conceptual because it's on the conceptual magic system of Rakudai. We don't really know the full mechanics other than it's superior to invisibility and conceals everything rather than just the person's body.
 
Quick correction it's not conceptual invisibility (earlier I was talking about Sara who used conceptual magic to hide her existence). Kirihara's is FAR superior (it's treated as the greatest form of hiding in a series where 1/3 dudes can turn invisible in some form). Anyway kirihara's is conceptual hunting. He is conceptually undetectable by any of the senses, ikki had to precog his way outta there.

I have 2 questions though. Why is that skill based? From what you're saying it's strictly for assassins that alone makes it not skill based.

2. So that is just hiding your presence while still being detectable? (As in visible but cannot be seen)
 
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