Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,549
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Announcer is Now 4-B, remober him from H4C
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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued
- Thread starter Setsuna_tenma
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Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,549
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remove Announcer from high 7-C, he's upgraded to 4-B
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Rikuo Nura defeated True Dark Genie in this thread.
Which means Rikuo Nura takes TDG's 1st placement for High 7-C.
Which means Rikuo Nura takes TDG's 1st placement for High 7-C.
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Can he defeat however the lower spots? Because I at least don't see how he would defeat Han with his speed amps both in a equal or unequal speed match, and I also don't know the result of him fighting against Fran with Master (would say the same about Tao Hua but the link don't send me to any profile).
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Han gets passive'd into oblivion before he can activate his passives.
Fran doesn't have much layers with her hax's from my recollection of DontTalk's debates with the character, which means they also get passive'd into oblivion just like TDG.
Tao Hua also gets passive'd.
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Being a gamer.
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can't wait to nominate Alucard here.
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Lose to Alex Mercer
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His powernull sounds like it wouldn't apply against Fran's abilities at all. From the explanations on his profile, his powernull nullifies the "fear" behind the opponent's abilities which, from what I take from the profile, is the common source of power behind their abilities. Fran's abilities aren't powered by humanities fear of her.
And even then, isn't that only when they hit a physical attack? How would he do that when blitzed into oblivion?
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Alucard already stomps Mercer via mind hax and low-godly.
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A Yokai's power-source isn't reliant on humanities fear of them, it's just reliant on another entity having "fear, awe and respect" towards them. If humanity ceased to exist it wouldn't cause Yokai to die off because there's always going to be Yokai which will "fear, awe and respect" another Yokai. If Fran feels "fear, awe and respect" towards Rikuo than he'd be able to nullify her abilities.
That's the entire basis of "breaking fear".
Nah, Yokai of a certain caliber (which Rikuo is a part of) have aura's which induce their power nullification effect without needing physical contact.
Addressed above.
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From what I see that's only breaking techniques powered by fear. That's the explanation given: It breaks fear with fear, by "cutting through fear". Fran's techniques are powered by Ki, Mana or divine or evil power, which is nothing like that. And then there are skills, which just work.
So yeah, I don't think the equalization holds here. Especially not to all of the above.
Even if that worked, space magic allows Fran to bypass that by just being in a different dimension altogether.
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I mean.... you can still argue (at least currently) Alex can incap Alucard via his passive Disease Manipulation which Alucard doesn't resist, it would also indirectly "bypass" his regeneration since it doesn't actually "damage" you conventionally, but rather just transforms you into a zombie via the Blacklight virus.
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,847
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Fran vs Rikuo then honestly. Rikuo came with the smoke for his placement
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Can it negate stuff that works on an info type 2 scale, cause that's what tao hua's stuff works on, with a single hit corrupting the opponent on a body, mind, soul and informational level or any of her haxes affecting the mind, soul, and information of her target
Also how fast do they use their active stuff, thought, gesture what?
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If Fran's abilities induce "fear, awe and respect" onto others then her abilities would be classified as "fear", which means Rikuo would be able to nullify them just like he does with any other "fear" within verse.
If the above is true (with her abilities inducing anyform of "fear, awe and respect" onto another) Rikuo would be able to nullify her abilities.
But even if i steelman the argument and say he couldn't it wouldn't matter that much since she doesn't really have any counters towards the passive, layered Fear Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation.
How exactly does she activate this "space magic"? does it require any physical movements on her part?
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I have no idea how Information Manipulation (Type 2) is placed in relation with Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3), so....... maybe? idk for sure. But Rikuo's main win-con isn't the power nullification, but rather the Fear Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation.
If she can't resist those two effects then i doubt she beats Rikuo, unless she has some busted passives of her own to counteract his passives.
It's passive since it's from an aura which Yokai constantly exert.
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I see nothing indicating that and it seems absolutely like a NLF. IN his verse fear is literally an energy source, while Fran's attacks work completely without it. You could make fear stop existing and Fran's attacks would still work.
Said fear manipulation doesn't necessarily incap from what I see. And Fran has lots of resistance against it.
She has Perfect Thought Isolation, which is, in-verse, immunity to mind-affecting techniques. By that it is superior to the 20 levels of mind resistance.
Then she has several more levels in abnormal status resistance and mental resistance (at least 12 in total, might be more but that's what I could find).
She also is resistant to extremely potent forms, such as her skills blocking fear manip that is strong enough to make people die from shock.
To that comes that she generally is very brave and a fighting maniac, so fear doesn't down her easily.
Via thought alone.
And in addition to that:
I could make the match if people want but Rikuo will get stomped.
Fran starts outside his range (because Master his kilometers of range), immediately speed boosts to the point of blitzing and Master immediately info analyzes all of Rikou's abilities. So Rikou will never get them into range of any of his dangerous abilities. There is just no way for Rikou to put up any offensive. (well, unless maybe Rikuo in-character instantly x100 speed boosts)
(Btw. Han will completely no-sell Rikou's fear inducement, so he wins too. His fear resistance is based on casualty and law manip)
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Oh then she should resist due to the usual cultivator stuff where each stage is a greater degree of resistance along with her resisting stuff that affects her mind on the informational level
Aight, anything outside of the passives cause she just needs either a gesture or a thought to manifest her garden which amps her, makes it harder for other stuff from affecting her along with having a passive mind, soul, body, info, corruption, and madness manip, or bfrs their soul into her garden which has the same effects along with other stuff that makes it worse for him, along with danmaku and her regular attacks that all have the corrupting effects of her garden.
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The scan which is provided indicates that, "fear" is quite literally the power which one gains from another having "fear, awe and respect" towards you, so that definitively isn't a "NLF", that's the literal power-source of the series.
That wouldn't matter because the point where an energy source "stops existing" isn't a counter to one energy source capacity to be equalized with another. Having one "fear, awe and respect" you is classified as "fear" within Nura. If someone "fear, awe and respects" Fran then her abilities would be classified/equalized as "fear".
It isn't complicated nor does it require leaps in logic to assume such, in actuality it's consistent with what "fear" is explained to be within verse.
It does, it instantly causes your muscles to lock or causes you to run away in fear, scans which prove both are on the profile. Explain Fran's level of resistance, because Rikuo's Fear Manipulation is very layered, it's also sourced by a Type 3 Concept, which Fran doesn't seem to have any resistance towards.
Evidence for that 20 layer number, because Rikuo's layering is explained why Fran's isn't.
Evidence for this as well.
Doesn't matter since Rikuo's is currently more layered compared to Fran's resistances, the esoteric effects which one Fear Manipulation induces doesn't negate a more layered form of Fear Manipulation. She can resist that type of Fear Manipulation all she wants, but if it isn't as layered as Rikuo's then it wouldn't stop him from ******* her shit up.
That's terrible reasoning, it doesn't matter how "brave one is" or what's her state of mind when it comes to combat, Rikuo's Fear Manipulation still affects you regardless, hell it can even effect beings which don't naturally feel fear, like machines.
Scans of this?
He doesn't but you do you.
Speed boost which aren't fast enough to negate passives, so it doesn't matter. How fast does it take for her to info analyze someone's abilities, aseptically abilities which are conceptual in nature like Rikuo's Fear Manipulation (or basically all of his hax's tbh.)
He does, it's called fear haxing Fran to the point she physically locks up and loses the will to fight, after which he just slices her soul into pieces, deconstructs her with Sakura or beats her down with sheer AP.
What's the evidence behind Causality Manipulation and Law Manipulation being above Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3)?, especially layered Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3)
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So not what Fran has, as her power is not gained from having others fear her.
Yeah, of their series, which means it applies not to Fran, who uses different power that works entirely different.
Maybe, but then you have given no reason why they would be equalized, given that they seem to function fundamentally different.
No. If someone fears a rock, the rock doesn't become fear itself. Maybe the rock would get a power of fear, but it in itself doesn't become fear. It's still a rock.
So no, just because someone fears Fran doesn't make all her power sources equalize to fear. Her power exists with and without fear and their nature doesn't change in Fran's verse by being feared or not. Additionally, they are internal energy sources, coming form the pool of power within a person, why the fear in Rikuo's verse is an external power source.
They absolutely don't equalizes on any level.
The profile and blog also has a dozen scans or so of people being affected by fear and not being incapped.
See Chantless of Master's profile and the reference given. Also, Master is a sword, so the amount of stuff he could potentially do to cast spells is kinda limited to thought to begin with.
The fact that Concept Manip Type 3 is an ability which's scope is entirely dependent on in-verse explanations ("Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ. ")
and you have offered nothing to indicate otherwise. In the first place the only part that maybe maybe could be classified concept manip Type 3 is the way he powers his abilities.
Just because you have conceptual power the effect isn't necessarily conceptual or broken in any way. Even for other concept types. E.g. OnC has a cocnept that makes Writing equal Power. However, the power isn't hax conceptual anything. It is derived from a concept, but just being derived from a concept doesn't let you bypass stuff.
As said, his Concept Manip doesn't make his fear stuff better. It's only drawing power from humanities common fear, not abstract reality rewriting bullshit.
It's pretty questionable to even call it concept manip, since no concept is actually manipulated, just drawn power from.
For the 12 levels you can for instance look at the Chapter 365 stat sheet.
For the superior to 20/21 levels stuff: Immunity blocks all in-verse uses of that power. Each magic branch has a basic version (10 levels) and a superior version (10 levels). You can look at the references in the Magic section on Master's profile to confirm that. That means Immunity is the ability to completely block 20 levels of that branch. Hence perfect thought isolation which makes, in-verse, immune to mind attack stuff is above 20 levels of such.
Questionable, and even if it lessens the fear to enough of a degree that Fran's and Master's natural dispositions can power through.
Wrong, actually. We don't quantify resistances purely by layers.
I remember the thread where hax judging practices were decided. Quality is actually one of multiple factors that go into judging potency. Not just layers.
Yeah, it affects one. However, under fear triggers the flight or fight response. Not everyone that is scared freezes up and stops doing anything. Neither does everyone run away. Some people will instead attack when scared and Fran is that type of person. Whether fear incapacitates depends on stuff like bravery and personality and for Fran fear doesn't easily incapacitate.
The passive has not enough range to affect Fran and Fran will never be close enough for it to do so. So the passive doesn't matter.
Pretty much instantly. (As said, his stuff isn't as conceptual as you like to pretend it is. It's not Type 2 or Type 1 stuff) If the powers were equalized the way you would like them to be, Master would also instantly sense it (and could absorb it at that).
Too bad his fear hax doesn't have enough range to reach her.
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@DontTalkDT I'll address your arguments above later, gotta eat supper.
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And then dinner?
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Arcker123
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Can I ask why?
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Because DT said so.
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Battle starts kilometers apart. (Master has several kilometers range)
Rikuo's range is "Extended Melee Range, Tens of Meters with Mekiyou Shisui Sakura, Hundreds of Meters with Fear Enhanced Strikes" all of which is less than kilometers.
So Master and Fran start outside all of his range and from there speed boost immediately.
Anway, I made a thread to not drag this out here further.
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It is a profile that does not use tabbers, that is all abt it
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Even without tabbers, normally resistance comes after listing abilities. This one starts listing abilities again after resistances without even indicating which is an ability or resistance.
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Yes, resistances come after the abilities, then the following key's stuff is listed after this separates the two |, which is how profiles that do not use tabbers are structured.
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Wouldn't it be better to add tabbers? Does the verse have any supporters who can do it or should I just do it myself?
Noneless21
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DT is one of the supporter, CP too but both of them are busy so it's best to make a CRT for it
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CRT? It's just to add tabbers because that one little "|" among a ton of abilities and resistances is very easy to miss
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Why? It's quite easy to parse and still shows where both the powers and resistances of a key start and stop and where each key starts and stops, and if someone is having an issue finding the | they can just use Ctrl + F and type in "|" to find where the keys are split. And yes there are supporters and knowledgeable members of the verse, such as me, DT, and CP.
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Then just add tabbers+ it looks cleaner
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