Rikuo Nura vs Fran and Master

[DontTalkDT]

Rikuo vs Fran and Master

Speed Equal
SBA otherwise
High 7-C keys

 

[DontTalkDT]

Continued from here.

Anyway, my starting argument: Master has several kilometers range, so they start outside of the range of all of Rikuo's techniques. They in-character immediately speed boost to blitzing speed, while Master will use Appraisal to get Rikuo's basic stats.
From there they can for instance invoke spatial intangibility to shift themselves into another dimension/space, which Rikuo can't really counter, and then just kill him.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following, will address the above later, just woke up.

 

[DontTalkDT]

To add to what I said above, Master can use Skill Taker to disable Rikuo's ability to transform into his Youkai form.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Also, wouldn't Fran&Master just need to last until the sun come out and Rikuo turn to human again? Don't know if they could even trigger that with their light manip (if they could generate sunlight) but if they could that's another advantage for them.

 

[DontTalkDT]

They can create lots of light, but not something mentioned to be sunlight specifically. Given, if we want to get really weird with SBA, one could argue that for Fran the sun is shining and she could use skills that are able to manipulate the natural sunlight to make a lightsource of sunlight that way.
Not sure if that would be enough to turn him, though.

But yeah, if the fear manipulation somehow gets into range and is not blocked by Fran's resistance and Fran goes for flight instead of fight for some reason, then Fran could totally just run from Rikuo for a few hours until the night ends. With speed boosts, teleportation and very good stealth I doubt Rikuo could catch Fran if she tries to get away.

 

[Deceived3596]

Anyway, my starting argument: Master has several kilometers range, so they start outside of the range of all of Rikuo's techniques. They in-character immediately speed boost to blitzing speed, while Master will use Appraisal to get Rikuo's basic stats.
From there they can for instance invoke spatial intangibility to shift themselves into another dimension/space, which Rikuo can't really counter, and then just kill him.

Before tackling any of your arguments, why exactly did you equalize speed? do you believe Rikuo would win without speed equalized given the massive speed disparity between the two? just need to know for the thread purposes.

The speed boost part is nullified by Rikuo's passives ******* her over, he can also summon Kurotabo and layer his fear onto himself, granting him a speed boost which seemingly eclipses anything in Tensei. Making him to be one who speed blitz's in this fight.

She would see Rikuo's physical stats, race etc. But i don't believe she would be capable of seeing his abilities as i doubt they would be classified as "skills" without further context of what classify as "skills" within Tensei.

What exactly is the percentage chance of her activating that specific ability when she has access to hundreds of different abilities? is it in-character for her to frequently use this ability or does she only use it on rare, special occasions?

To add to what I said above, Master can use Skill Taker to disable Rikuo's ability to transform into his Youkai form.

Depends on if his innate ability to transform would classify as a "skill" under verse equalization. Even so he still has multiple counters towards this such as Power Nullification nullifying Skill Taker, Meikyo Shisui and Kyoka Suigetsu messing with her perception of Rikuo through messing with her consciousness, causing the ability to miss the actual Rikuo etc.

This also has the same problem as many of Fran's abilities, how in-character is it for her to use this ability when she has access to hundreds of different abilities?

But yeah, if the fear manipulation somehow gets into range and is not blocked by Fran's resistance and Fran goes for flight instead of fight for some reason, then Fran could totally just run from Rikuo for a few hours until the night ends. With speed boosts, teleportation and very good stealth I doubt Rikuo could catch Fran if she tries to get away.

If her resistance doesn't block Rikuo's Fear Manipulation then she's getting paralyzed just like Yura did. Which means she's a sitting duck for Rikuo and co to dogwalk her shit.

If she's constantly running away from Rikuo (which she wouldn't because of the Fear Manipulation) he'd just combine with Kurotabo and gain a amp which is massively above even Fran's amped speed. Which means she ain't dodging for much longer after. Stealth also doesn't matter since he'd just sense her supernatural aura and find her.

Also can either Fran or Master see and sense invisible things? since Rikuo is passively invisible via his Yokai physiology.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Before tackling any of your arguments, why exactly did you equalize speed? do you believe Rikuo would win without speed equalized given the massive speed disparity between the two? just need to know for the thread purposes.

The list is by default with speed equalized, with only some characters having a certain spot do to winning without speed equal (and that is just in the case that said character defeat the below spots even with speed equalized).

 

[Arcker123]

The list is by default with speed equalized, with only some characters having a certain spot do to winning without speed equal (and that is just in the case that said character defeat the below spots even with speed equalized).

Yes? He's just asking if DT thinks Nura wins with speed unequal

 

[DontTalkDT]

Before tackling any of your arguments, why exactly did you equalize speed? do you believe Rikuo would win without speed equalized given the massive speed disparity between the two? just need to know for the thread purposes.

Rikuo can have the speed unequal spot if you want that. Although I won't guarantee that Cat Noir or someone else that's much faster than him doesn't instantly steal it...

She would see Rikuo's physical stats, race etc. But i don't believe she would be capable of seeing his abilities as i doubt they would be classified as "skills" without further context of what classify as "skills" within Tensei.

Skills are just about anything you know how to do + supernatural stuff you can just do. Good fighting with a sword? Skill. Can use magic? Skill. Fear Aura / Intimidation? Skill. For clarity I should say, a skill for magic doesn't mean the skill is magic. That is separate. It's more like a skill is the talent needed to perform it. Although skills can also be stuff like blessings, too. It's a relatively wide category of "anything someone can do that isn't Ki, Magic, divine power or evil power"-basically.

So, Master definitely would see which things Rikuo has mastered, as mastering anything, even mundane things like cooking, manners and blacksmithing, is reflected in a skill.

Master also has a skill aside from appraisal that gives him knowledge of the characteristics and weak points of demonic beasts in particular. So he knows that stuff about him.

The speed boost part is nullified by Rikuo's passives ******* her over

No, because she starts outside of range of that. You would need to get her into range first, which I don't see happening.

he can also summon Kurotabo and layer his fear onto himself, granting him a speed boost which seemingly eclipses anything in Tensei. Making him to be one who speed blitz's in this fight.

That's a strong claim. Fran has quite a few layers of speed blitzing under her belt. Plus time stop. Have I mentioned Master can stop targets in time?

Anyway, Fran instantly activates one of her speed blitz boosts when the battle starts. Does Rikuo even do the same? 'cause if not the battle is over before he gets that far.

I will add, just in case, that he will not be able to catch her if she runs away even with that, 'cause teleport.

What exactly is the percentage chance of her activating that specific ability when she has access to hundreds of different abilities? is it in-character for her to frequently use this ability or does she only use it on rare, special occasions?

Spatial Intangibility is one of their go-to defensive abilities. And after info-analysis it just becomes the most reasonable strategy, which Master would use. He is a sucker for making good use of abilities.

Depends on if his innate ability to transform would classify as a "skill" under verse equalization.

It equalizes very directly into things like the "Demonization"-skill, which Master has in fact stolen once before. Or also the Beastmen's Awakening, which can also be stolen. Both of those are innate abilities of species.

Even so he still has multiple counters towards this such as Power Nullification nullifying Skill Taker, Meikyo Shisui and Kyoka Suigetsu messing with her perception of Rikuo through messing with her consciousness, causing the ability to miss the actual Rikuo etc.

She still has resistance, has tons of ways to sense that wouldn't be restricted by regular illusions and also Master and Urushi, neither of which Rikuo knows are there. So just using that on her won't do much, if he even gets the chance.

I doubt Skill Taker can be power nulled. Mostly due to compatibility reasons, not being magic or anything like that, but also because it can't be perceived even by those who can sense invisible and intangible stuff or by spirit users, who can sense spirits who are invisible to those who can see the invisible and intangible to those that see the intangible. Basically, it doesn't interact with other power systems from what we see.

This also has the same problem as many of Fran's abilities, how in-character is it for her to use this ability when she has access to hundreds of different abilities?

Against a dangerous opponent? Tremendously.

If her resistance doesn't block Rikuo's Fear Manipulation then she's getting paralyzed just like Yura did. Which means she's a sitting duck for Rikuo and co to dogwalk her shit.

Proof that. Other scans on his page show running away is an option and yet other scans on his page show people affected by fear doing neither. Being paralyzed is the least likely reaction for someone like Fran, character-wise.

And Fran could fight even paralyzed at that. Can move via telekinesis and teleportation and stuff.

If she's constantly running away from Rikuo (which she wouldn't because of the Fear Manipulation) he'd just combine with Kurotabo and gain a amp which is massively above even Fran's amped speed. Which means she ain't dodging for much longer after. Stealth also doesn't matter since he'd just sense her supernatural aura and find her.

Teleportation over massive distances makes the speed amps relatively meaningless. And no, he wouldn't be able to sense her aura as she is capable of hiding her life force, magic and presence. She can hide her presence so well, that she can basically walk in front of a person without hiding and they still wouldn't perceive her.

Also can bend light for optical camouflage, erase the sound she makes and contain her smell, if necessary.

Also can either Fran or Master see and sense invisible things? since Rikuo is passively invisible via his Yokai physiology.

Yes. They can see ghosts, Fran can even see spirits (which are invisible to those that can see the invisible), can sense life force, can sense magic, can sense vibrations, heat, danger, gazes, presences, ability usage etc.

 

[Arkenis]

That's a strong claim. Fran has quite a few layers of speed blitzing under her belt. Plus time stop. Have I mentioned Master can stop targets in time?

Anyway, Fran instantly activates one of her speed blitz boosts when the battle starts. Does Rikuo even do the same? 'cause if not the battle is over before he gets that far.

I will add, just in case, that he will not be able to catch her if she runs away even with that, 'cause teleport.

Considering Rikuo's passives, is it even smart for her to try a blitz? She'll just be met with the passives. Also Rikuo's got a 100x speed amp lmao, is Frans speed amps similar to that?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Fran's speed amps are unquantified but several layers of speed blitzing. We know all in all it's at least x10, likely more. Additionally, she has skill that allows her to contend with several layers of speedblitzing her. (as nonsensical as that is)
It hardly matters, though, if Rikuo doesn't immediately activate his technique, as Fran will do it with hers.

For Fran and Master blitzing doesn't necessarily mean to run up and hit him. She can instead analyze him and use a technique that counters his (e.g. spatial intangibility) before he gets to try anything. It's the advantage in action economy that's fatal here.


I also still doubt that any of his passives actually work, but she should be able to win one way or another.

 

[Arkenis]

I also still doubt that any of his passives actually work, but she should be able to win one way or another.

Well his passives counter her getting close

For Fran and Master blitzing doesn't necessarily mean to run up and hit him. She can instead analyze him and use a technique that counters his (e.g. spatial intangibility) before he gets to try anything. It's the advantage in action economy that's fatal here.

How does the spatial intang work?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well his passives counter her getting close

Yeah, maybe, if they work. I still feel like the power null doesn't work, since it negates by cutting away the fear that is very much necessary for Rikuo's verse's attacks to work but not at all for Fran's verse's various kinds of supernatural power. And Fran has enough layers of fear resistance to resist that (and can fight even when scared).

But via spatial intangibility and stuff she can effectively win without ever getting into range, anyway.

How does the spatial intang work?

Transfers her body into a different dimension. So it looks like she's there, but actually she is in a pocket dimension out of range altogether. Which doesn't stop her from casting spells, so yeah.

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah, maybe, if they work. I still feel like the power null doesn't work, since it negates by cutting away the fear that is very much necessary for Rikuo's verse's attacks to work but not at all for Fran's verse's various kinds of supernatural power. And Fran has enough layers of fear resistance to resist that (and can fight even when scared).

The fear seems to be a general application that all things have though. such as the fear of the unknown or authority as well so I'm not sure why it couldn't.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The fear seems to be a general application that all things have though. such as the fear of the unknown or authority as well so I'm not sure why it couldn't.

Lots of things have fear, sure. Like, in real life lots of different things are scary.
But there is a difference between an attack that causes damage and is scary, and an attack that causes because it is scary.
Say he cuts away the fear of one of Fran's lightning strikes. Now it's a lightning strike that isn't scary anymore. That would, in his verse, negate the lightning strike's power, since its power comes from fear in his verse.
However, in Fran's verse a lightning strike can cause damage even if nobody is scared of it, because its power comes from the mana in Fran, not fear. So by cutting away the fear, he just created a non-scary lightning strike that harms him anyway.

Or take another example. Say Fran shoots a very weak stream of water at him. Nobody is scared of that. So there isn't even any fear for him to cut away to begin with. So how could he negate that? And if he can't, why would he be able to negate Fran's magic that is scary, but is just as non-reliant on having "fear" as the weak stream of water?

 

[Deceived3596]

Sorry for not responding in a timely manner, I was working a lot of CRT's + Christmas. I'll address DontTalk's arguments later today.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Let me add that if Rikuo's stuff equalizes to Fran's power systems for whatever strange reason, Fran's resistance & powernull stuff should also work on his power system.
Which means 9 additional skills Fran has would be effective at nullfying or resisting Rikuo's stuff and most of those above baseline, which would give Fran more layers against Rikuo's stuff than he has on it.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Oh and I forgot that Fran has the Indomitable Resolve skill which also negates fear, so add those to the layers of fear resistance.