Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

[StrymULTRA]

Isn't it abstract thoughts and emotions Type 3 concept?

No.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

No.

What's it considered here besides AE type 1? This is new to me lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

What's it considered here besides AE type 1? This is new to me lol

Thoughts, emotions, dreams, ideas, etc.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Thoughts, emotions, dreams, ideas, etc.

Huh that isn't a problem for Seiya characters then

They frequently interact with dreams

They can exist not only as their souls but as a conscious separate from their soul and body

Their "conscious/Divine will" fills "their realms" etc.

I domt believe it'll ne an issue then.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just remembered but after the last crt some Arifureta characters now reach 6-C with amps (Hajime, Kaori, Laus and Kouki), so considering that I propose them for 6-C.

10. Crona: Don't resist ancient magic, so he can't do anything against Hajime, Kaori or Laus, from the looks of it even Kouki could probably take him in his last key.

9. Adam Blade: Similarly don't resist ancient magic so Hajime, Kaori and Laus should be able to take him down.

8. Nergal: This is the most confusing and weird profile I have see in all my time in this wiki, I'm honestly quite confused about what things actually do the character but if I did understand the vampire template correctly Nergal don't actually resist law manip (surprisingly) or complete conceptual manip (the conceptual manip in the page list it as limited and don't mention the type of concept manip, could be wrong though since the description don't make clear at all what the conceptual manip do) with his amount of dots, so I suppose the Arifureta side could defeat him?

Saint Seya honestly seem like a pain to debate (no offense TheUnshakableOne) and I don't even know against what character would I be supposed to do a match, so I'm not gonna try to argue for higher spots.

 

[deonment]

I have no idea, dunno about Saint Seiya, but they're definitely above the YGO characters.

Explain to me how they pass yugioh when I do not see an out to passive layered 4D power null and invul against anything that attempts to affect them

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Just remembered but after the last crt some Arifureta characters now reach 6-C with amps (Hajime, Kaori, Laus and Kouki), so considering that I propose them for 6-C.

10. Crona: Don't resist ancient magic, so he can't do anything against Hajime, Kaori or Laus, from the looks of it even Kouki could probably take him in his last key.

9. Adam Blade: Similarly don't resist ancient magic so Hajime, Kaori and Laus should be able to take him down.

8. Nergal: This is the most confusing and weird profile I have see in all my time in this wiki, I'm honestly quite confused about what things actually do the character but if I did understand the vampire template correctly Nergal don't actually resist law manip (surprisingly) or complete conceptual manip (the conceptual manip in the page list it as limited and don't mention the type of concept manip, could be wrong though since the description don't make clear at all what the conceptual manip do) with his amount of dots, so I suppose the Arifureta side could defeat him?

Saint Seya honestly seem like a pain to debate (no offense TheUnshakableOne) and I don't even know against what character would I be supposed to do a match, so I'm not gonna try to argue for higher spots.

FYI currently Saint Seiyas biggest weakness is Type 1/2 CM, NEP, Acausality 4 or 5, Transduality, AE Type 1 on Type 1 or 2 concepts, Smurfs, or power null. There was more but I forgot lol

Edit: what tier? Is it 6-C?

 

[StrymULTRA]

layered 4D power null

What did they powernull? I can easily argue NLF here.

invul against anything that attempts to affect them

NLF again against shit like Void or Concept manip lol. Plus, they scale to only 12 universes, EB charas scale to hundreds.

 

[deonment]

What did they powernull? I can easily argue NLF here.

Any hax that is in the yugioh verse which does include all the stuff you mentioned for Giygas and Ness

NLF again against shit like Void or Concept manip lol. Plus, they scale to only 12 universes, EB charas scale to hundreds.

The invul and power null are one and the same so the void manip would get negged, they haven't actually shown the capability to neg concept manip for now but yubel also just thinks and mind haxes the dragon
So unless their concept manip is concept ee yubel is regenning
Also we give characters with invul immunity to all attacks in their dimension so the ap diff doesn't matter

I'm decently sure that The Outsider beats Yubel in 2-C after looking at both profiles, could be wrong so it'll probably require a versus match. At least it'll probably end in an incon given The Outsider's insane large size (him embodying a structure which contains 1000 universal sized alternate realities). Which i doubt Yubel could fully interact with.

I assume this is due to timestop yeah? just checking

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

FYI currently Saint Seiyas biggest weakness is Type 1/2 CM, NEP, Acausality 4 or 5, Transduality, AE Type 1 on Type 1 or 2 concepts, Smurfs, or power null. There was more but I forgot lol

Edit: what tier? Is it 6-C?

Oh, in that case the characters could actually get their spot since essentially speaking most of their haxs are based on type 2 concept manip (in Hajime case he can potentially reach type 1), and in the case of powernull that is also one of the main haxs of Laus with his ancient magic.

Yes, 6-C.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Just remembered but after the last crt some Arifureta characters now reach 6-C with amps (Hajime, Kaori, Laus and Kouki), so considering that I propose them for 6-C.

10. Crona: Don't resist ancient magic, so he can't do anything against Hajime, Kaori or Laus, from the looks of it even Kouki could probably take him in his last key.

9. Adam Blade: Similarly don't resist ancient magic so Hajime, Kaori and Laus should be able to take him down.

8. Nergal: This is the most confusing and weird profile I have see in all my time in this wiki, I'm honestly quite confused about what things actually do the character but if I did understand the vampire template correctly Nergal don't actually resist law manip (surprisingly) or complete conceptual manip (the conceptual manip in the page list it as limited and don't mention the type of concept manip, could be wrong though since the description don't make clear at all what the conceptual manip do) with his amount of dots, so I suppose the Arifureta side could defeat him?

Saint Seya honestly seem like a pain to debate (no offense TheUnshakableOne) and I don't even know against what character would I be supposed to do a match, so I'm not gonna try to argue for higher spots.

What's their AP in 6-C? Also how many 6-C's are there who use swords? Looking for characters to make a match.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Oh, in that case the characters could actually get their spot since essentially speaking most of their haxs are based on type 2 concept manip (in Hajime case he can potentially reach type 1), and in the case of powernull that is also one of the main haxs of Laus with his ancient magic.

Yes, 6-C.

Is it passive or a leading move (opening move?)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Is it passive or a leading move (opening move?)

Leading moves, basically the characters main haxs come mainly from ancient magic which consist of law and concept type 2 manip.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Leading moves, basically the characters main haxs come mainly from ancient magic which consist of law and concept type 2 manip.

Ah can they resist passivs Heat Manipulation with Atom and Soul destruction?

Less than 1000 degrees F more then 450,1 Soul Manipulation us only 1 layer of potency though, and Atom destruction.

Phoenix Ikkis heat is around Temps of lava though.

Can they resist the passive probability manipulation which alsi self-Stat amps their durability, AP, and speed to infinity?

Also passive 6th sense stuff which on profile is just Instinctive Reactions and Extrasensory stuff.

Oh almost forgot passive Reactive Evolution but it's sight based.

If they can resist those they (minus maybe resisting stat amp) they win against Saint Seiya

 

[StrymULTRA]

Any hax that is in the yugioh verse which does include all the stuff you mentioned for Giygas and Ness

What about AE1?

So unless their concept manip is concept ee yubel is regenning

It's concept EE yeah.

Also we give characters with invul immunity to all attacks in their dimension so the ap diff doesn't matter

We do not assume that a 2-C with invulnerability tanks attacks from someone with 2-B/2-A AP, so I don't see why they should survive attacks from higher amount of universes even in this case.

 

[deonment]

What about AE1?

should be able to

It's concept EE yeah.

k so yubel just thinks in that case and its an incon between the two

We do not assume that a 2-C with invulnerability tanks attacks from someone with 2-B/2-A AP, so I don't see why they should survive attacks from higher amount of universes even in this case.

expect we do, its 3D characters with invul in matches are unfazed even by high 3-A stuff, or why we limit invul to only qualifying if you have a proper mechanic for it, which yugioh does, because it grants them full immunity to all attacks within their dimension, only being able to be damaged by people who are either high d than thier invul or have invul negation

 

[StrymULTRA]

expect we do, its 3D characters with invul in matches are unfazed even by high 3-A stuff

What

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Less than 1000 degrees F more then 450,1 Soul Manipulation us only 1 layer of potency though, and Atom destruction.

Phoenix Ikkis heat is around Temps of lava though.

They scale above lightning heat (and like just at middle of vol 1 was already show heat of 3000 C°, so that isn't certainly a problem). Hajime and Kaori also possess an artifact that automatically regulate their surrounding temperature (potentially made with spatial magic, though isn't sure), and in Laus cases he most of the time just fight directly with his soul so damage to his physical body is actually meaningless to him.

Their soul and mind resistance come from resist spirit magic (ancient magic that manipulate the concept of immaterial elements of sentient beings, including obviously the soul and mind), they can resist it with their natural defences, with their artifacts with spirit magic protection that make them resist it, and with their own will power (which in verse is quite crazy, they can basically develop new powers and tons of layered resistances with it, in the case of Hajime his will power is even enough to affect reality in a way that create type 1 concepts [he can also resist type 1 concepts with it], Kaori can also potentially develop resistance to haxs as strong as even type 1 concepts), each of of this resistances is layered along with their own soul potency.

Don't know about the atom destruction to comment about that, though Hajime main ancient magic is creation magic which control the concept of matter so he could just negate it altogether with it (or just adapt to it with his RE since that was what he did in vol 1 as a normal human when faced with molecular destruction), Kaori main ancient magic is restoration magic which manipulate the concept of time and basic spells of it let the user restore things to a previous state with even some spells like Transcient Infinity that automatically return things to their state one second before so she could likely also ignore it (alternatively she could just continue to act as a soul even if her body get destroyed since she also possess spirit magic and her current body is actually a machine to which her soul got attached for convenience reasons), and Laus just don't care about any physical damage his body could receive since he mostly fight with his soul and can use magic as a soul to restore his body.

Can they resist the passive probability manipulation which alsi self-Stat amps their durability, AP, and speed to infinity?

How someone can resist their opponent buffing? One could remove the buffs, but unless a is a character with a very specific ability no one have resistance to the opponent buffing.

But about their answer to the buff, Laus and Kaori could powernull it with spirit magic and/or restoration magic, maybe even Hajime powernull could also work, but even if they couldn't null it most of their arsenal just ignore durability so it isn't like that matter.

The speed part however is a really bold claim, because if that was really the case they would blitz all the above characters, which they don't appear to do, along with the fact that checking some profiles like Seiya and Ikki they don't have any mention of infinite speed or High 3-A AP until their fourth key which also include tier 2 stuff, so I would like some proof that they could do such thing at their 6-C keys when the profile don't mention anything like that in their statics, would specially like proof that they could easily do so by themselves in their 6-C keys (because the scans I could find about infinite power with miracles were feats performed by several characters, sometimes just one character but after be grievely injuried, giving their all together in the climax of fights against importants antagonist, something far from a showing of them been able to casually do that all the time at any moment like you seem to suggest).

Also passive 6th sense stuff which on profile is just Instinctive Reactions and Extrasensory stuff.

Even fodder in Arifureta have IR and Extrasensory Perception (which obviously these characters far surpass not only with powerscaling but their own feats), so don't see much the point in mention them.

Oh almost forgot passive Reactive Evolution but it's sight based.

Same with the buff point, RE is one of the abilities that characters don't resist unless very specific circunstances, people can counter them or face them in some way but say resistance to Reactive Evolution is honestly silly.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

They scale above lightning heat (and like just at middle of vol 1 was already show heat of 3000 C°, so that isn't certainly a problem). Hajime and Kaori also possess an artifact that automatically regulate their surrounding temperature (potentially made with spatial magic, though isn't sure), and in Laus cases he most of the time just fight directly with his soul so damage to his physical body is actually meaningless to him.

Their soul and mind resistance come from resist spirit magic (ancient magic that manipulate the concept of immaterial elements of sentient beings, including obviously the soul and mind), they can resist it with their natural defences, with their artifacts with spirit magic protection that make them resist it, and with their own will power (which in verse is quite crazy, they can basically develop new powers and tons of layered resistances with it, in the case of Hajime his will power is even enough to affect reality in a way that create type 1 concepts [he can also resist type 1 concepts with it], Kaori can also potentially develop resistance to haxs as strong as even type 1 concepts), each of of this resistances is layered along with their own soul potency.

Don't know about the atom destruction to comment about that, though Hajime main ancient magic is creation magic which control the concept of matter so he could just negate it altogether with it (or just adapt to it with his RE since that was what he did in vol 1 as a normal human when faced with molecular destruction), Kaori main ancient magic is restoration magic which manipulate the concept of time and basic spells of it let the user restore things to a previous state with even some spells like Transcient Infinity that automatically return things to their state one second before so she could likely also ignore it (alternatively she could just continue to act as a soul even if her body get destroyed since she also possess spirit magic and her current body is actually a machine to which her soul got attached for convenience reasons), and Laus just don't care about any physical damage his body could receive since he mostly fight with his soul and can use magic as a soul to restore his body.

How someone can resist their opponent buffing? One could remove the buffs, but unless a is a character with a very specific ability no one have resistance to the opponent buffing.

But about their answer to the buff, Laus and Kaori could powernull it with spirit magic and/or restoration magic, maybe even Hajime powernull could also work, but even if they couldn't null it most of their arsenal just ignore durability so it isn't like that matter.

The speed part however is a really bold claim, because if that was really the case they would blitz all the above characters, which they don't appear to do, along with the fact that checking some profiles like Seiya and Ikki they don't have any mention of infinite speed or High 3-A AP until their fourth key which also include tier 2 stuff, so I would like some proof that they could do such thing at their 6-C keys when the profile don't mention anything like that in their statics, would specially like proof that they could easily do so by themselves in their 6-C keys (because the scans I could find about infinite power with miracles were feats performed by several characters, sometimes just one character but after be grievely injuried, giving their all together in the climax of fights against importants antagonist, something far from a showing of them been able to casually do that all the time at any moment like you seem to suggest).

Even fodder in Arifureta have IR and Extrasensory Perception (which obviously these characters far surpass not only with powerscaling but their own feats), so don't see much the point in mention them.

Same with the buff point, RE is one of the abilities that characters don't resist unless very specific circunstances, people can counter them or face them in some way but say resistance to Reactive Evolution is honestly silly.

I won't be able to respond to this until tomorrow. Busy with irl stuff atm.

 

[Iiliminal]

god tiers from tenchi muyo should be right under transformers since they’re 20D no?

 

[Lynieryz]

10. Crona: Don't resist ancient magic, so he can't do anything against Hajime, Kaori or Laus, from the looks of it even Kouki could probably take him in his last key.

crona must be removed crona will be upgraded.

 

[deonment]

What

Yeah, if you have invul you are wholly immune to all attacks in your dimension unless your invul is a smurf of some kind, its why there are many a stipulation upon a character having invul
So the ap diff shouldn't exactly matter in anything but range

 

[Aernasilver]

No.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Kamen Rider Ark-Zero for 3rd place High 6-C.

Passive layered type 2 and 3 madness manip + precog + RPL speed amp along with bajillion other amps + Type 6 & 8 Immortality and no soul mean he should beat Bleach people just fine.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Kamen Rider Ark-Zero for 3rd place High 6-C.

Passive layered type 2 and 3 madness manip + precog + RPL speed amp along with bajillion other amps + Type 6 & 8 Immortality and no soul mean he should beat Bleach people just fine.

Sounds like a match for Nagash?

 

[Nicetoderp]

Sounds like a match for Nagash?

I don't know who that is.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't know who that is.

a dude I'm half-match hunting for

This guy

 

[Nicetoderp]

a dude I'm half-match hunting for

This guy

I don't know anything about this guy, does his death manip work on machine?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't know anything about this guy, does his death manip work on machine?

It's not for this thread, he's a blatant smurf in second key and a smurf in first key like every other WHF charac

As to answer the question... well I mean it works on greater Daemons which are AE1 and NEP 2 all aspects so... probably. Helps that it also comes from concept manip

 

[Nicetoderp]

It's not for this thread, he's a blatant smurf in second key and a smurf in first key like every other WHF charac

As to answer the question... well I mean it works on greater Daemons which are AE1 and NEP 2 all aspects so... probably. Helps that it also comes from concept manip

Hmm, if he doesn't know about his satellite then it's a stalemate other than that I don't think Ark can bypass his immortalities.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I don't know who that is.

Just ignore Reaper, he just like to bring completely unrelated smurf characters to conversations whenever someone debate a character for a spot in the non-smurf list (and even when isn't about the non-smurf list but just a normal talk about a character in a normal thread)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hmm, if he doesn't know about his satellite then it's a stalemate other than that I don't think Ark can bypass his immortalities.

Nagash is pretty damn smart(plus he has witchsight, so if Ark thinks about the Satellite Nagash JUST found out about it), but his immortality for coming back takes centuries, so that's not very much of an issue

Just ignore Reaper, he just like to bring completely unrelated smurf characters to conversations whenever someone debate a character for a spot in the non-smurf list (and even when isn't about the non-smurf list but just a normal talk about a character in a normal thread)

I mean hey, these threads ARE good for Match-hunting

 

[Nicetoderp]

Nagash is pretty damn smart(plus he has witchsight, so if Ark thinks about the Satellite Nagash JUST found out about it), but his immortality for coming back takes centuries, so that's not very much of an issue

He doesn't actively think about it. Still, not sure if it's a good match but you can make it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He doesn't actively think about it. Still, not sure if it's a good match but you can make it.

If only we had Wurrzag made...

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, if you have invul you are wholly immune to all attacks in your dimension unless your invul is a smurf of some kind, its why there are many a stipulation upon a character having invul
So the ap diff shouldn't exactly matter in anything but range

Source for that? I thought that Invul would protect you from anything that's not infinitely above you.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah, if you have invul you are wholly immune to all attacks in your dimension unless your invul is a smurf of some kind, its why there are many a stipulation upon a character having invul
So the ap diff shouldn't exactly matter in anything but range

Does that include all hax or is it limited to feats?

 

[Delta333]

Does that include all hax or is it limited to feats?

Invul protects you from physical attacks, not hax.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Evil Computer Supreme for the 8th spot in 4-A. Not only does he have a mass scaling chain (5x stronger than his Super Object form that is far superior to his base form that one-shot Airplane who was capable of one-shotting Meatball who is equal to Computer who scales to the standard starry sky feat [>>>84.4 exaFOE]), but he also has Cobalt Blue’s Type 2 Corruption which can be activated with a thought, and he can passively send souls (Or people he just killed) to the Astral Plane upon hitting them.

Plus, even after he dies, he’ll just wind up in the Astral Plane where Evil Computer is still able to function as a spirit within the Astral Plane and just fire his lightning to the normal world from the Astral Plane.

Though, if I make a matchup with him against Dark Danny and Evil Computer wins, he could probably snag that 7th spot.

 

[Zencha9]

Yubel could affect abstract thoughts like darkness which is just negative thoughts the spirit world etc tho they can't affect concepts yet

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Anytime I come here to check on characters on the list, I remember and re-realize how insanely broken some characters on this wiki are.
It's interesting and fun to check, but man, so many abilities on a single character can be headache-worthy, lol