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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation

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Why wouldn't it? We don't default type 5 acausality to be outside the plot unless specified in verse.
why would the thing that doesn't experience change experience change
you do realize that the plot is just the progression of events on a narrative level?
and that we presume that people with acausality type 5 are unchanged by powers including those such as concept manip which is as fundamental as plot manip?
 
you do realize that the plot is just the progression of events on a narrative level?
and that we presume that people with acausality type 5 are unchanged by powers including those such as concept manip which is as fundamental as plot manip?
Yes but it'd be a NLF to assume every character with type acausality is also outside plot and they'd still abide by it. What's to stop a plot manip user to just EE them with it? Is type 5 unaffected by CM? Even then both things are completely different in function even if one is "as fundamental as the other".
 
Hey, I know that type 4 acausality doesn't protect you against plot manipulation, but I don't know about type 5.
 
Hey, I know that type 4 acausality doesn't protect you against plot manipulation, but I don't know about type 5.
As I recall
Acausality Type 5 only factors cause and effect (causality) and not Narrative/Plot
Otherwise
It would also mean Acausal 5 is resistant to concept and information (type 2) Hax which are just as abstract as plot
 
Should I start with Arale or Final Fantasy first? It seems that PMMM's supporters are no longer active in match 2-A (or am I mistaken?)
When you see my avatar changing one after another, but the series pages don't have these, you should know that it has been outdated for too long
 
Yes but it'd be a NLF to assume every character with type acausality is also outside plot and they'd still abide by it. What's to stop a plot manip user to just EE them with it? Is type 5 unaffected by CM? Even then both things are completely different in function even if one is "as fundamental as the other".
You do realize even narratives abide by notions of causality and change?
If something no longer experiences those concepts then something which has control over the narrative cannot affect them unless the narrative in question exists on a higher level or works on a higher notion of causality than the character, which isn't the case here as they would be smurf and thereby not on this list if it was truly the case.
Trying to erase them with narrative EE would just be like trying to erase pen or permanent marker with an eraser, it isn't going to work.
Yes, it is unaffected, that was literally a whole ass thread after the CM revisions, on if we presume that type 1 concepts automatically can affect aca type 5 and if they automatically have aca type 5.
 
Welp
Someone should either do a Q and A or a CTR to get this matter straightened or it will never end
 
Plot still needs to interact just like other fundamental stuff for it to take effect so no.

Even if you say plot is above causality you need that plot to affect or change something no longer changeable or uninteractable.

To say plot not working on type 5 acausality as nlf then the notion that plot can affect anything in plot is also nlf as you can also basically push that plot manip can also allow you to manipulate dimensional level as they are also just plot in the narrative of the story.

The acausal type 5 may still have plot but do you have feat for your plot manip to interact with its plot on that level?
 
The one constant variable are the fairies. Even when the girls are in human form, the fairies are still present and will protect them from any harm. In that sense, Shinju's power is always present around the girls. But yes, Shinju bestows the energy needed to transform to the girls, when they want to transform.
As for transforming into Mankai form, they do it by borrowing energy from Shinju. Spamming Mankai transformations is taxing, but absolutely possible (Sonoko and Karin have done it).
The potential issue I see - and what I don't get right now - is the interaction between the YY girls' ability to transform and Aang/Korra's power null. A YY girl transforming into and staying in Mankai form isn't an elemental power. Can Aang power-null abilities beyond element bending?
The powernull should be able to work, as it involves the avatar affecting their target's soul and uses cosmic energy, which is the basis of energybending.

And putting aside energybending for a sec, there are a few other things that I think would be effective. La-Fused Aang has soul-related bfr, where the target is dragged into the fog of lost souls in the spirit world. Even if the YY girl gets her soul back into her body and somehow resists the madness manipulation of the fog, she has no way to get back to the battlefield, which counts as a victory for Aang. And Korra is able to affect souls with her spiritbending, and she can do it to multiple targets at once, so the faerie would also be affected.
 
The powernull should be able to work, as it involves the avatar affecting their target's soul and uses cosmic energy, which is the basis of energybending.
1)Even when he was grown up and at his peak he still needed contact to do energy bending
2)The reason why it affects the soul is moreso to do with the mechanic behind bending than the power itself, there is no real reason as to why we should presume that it works here, especially given it specifically can only negate bending too
And putting aside energybending for a sec, there are a few other things that I think would be effective. La-Fused Aang has soul-related bfr, where the target is dragged into the fog of lost souls in the spirit world. Even if the YY girl gets her soul back into her body and somehow resists the madness manipulation of the fog, she has no way to get back to the battlefield, which counts as a victory for Aang.
That isn't really a valid wincon tho cause he doesn't use it in character, he is more inclined towards using his water manip in that state rather than the bfr which he only used because of what Zhao did to Tui.
 
1)Even when he was grown up and at his peak he still needed contact to do energy bending
I stated this above, don't know why you're repeating it.
2)The reason why it affects the soul is moreso to do with the mechanic behind bending than the power itself, there is no real reason as to why we should presume that it works here, especially given it specifically can only negate bending too
Korra also used it to affect a structure in the spirit world, she used it to redirect an energy beam, and most importantly, she was able to create an astral projection of her soul. So it affects on a deeper level then "just bending".

That isn't really a valid wincon tho cause he doesn't use it in character, he is more inclined towards using his water manip in that state rather than the bfr which he only used because of what Zhao did to Tui.
The rules don't state that the characters have to be ic; I assume that bloodlusted is also allowed. Plus Aang wasn't the one fully in control during that fight, he was also in the avatar state, which means that the avatars were also voting for control, and La also had a hand in it. If La sees it as a way to win, he will absolutely use it.
 

This was the only detailed explanation I can find by staff on Plot vs Type 5 Acausality
 
honestly there shoukd be different levels to Type 5 Acausality because dome characters have ot through conceptual transcendence (,(Types 1 or 2) some through laws. But that's just me.
 
The rules don't state that the characters have to be ic; I assume that bloodlusted is also allowed.
All the debates and matches I've seen come out of this thread to decide placements assume SBA, which means in-character. I don't think bloodlusted states are allowed, unless it's in-character to become bloodlusted.
Korra also used it to affect a structure in the spirit world, she used it to redirect an energy beam, and most importantly, she was able to create an astral projection of her soul. So it affects on a deeper level then "just bending".
I think this could be argued to also count as spiritbending. As in, she used her bending to redirect the beam or to affect the structure. Astral projection has to do with the soul, and from what I'm reading spiritbending extends to the soul, so projecting the soul would be a result of bending it.
And putting aside energybending for a sec, there are a few other things that I think would be effective. La-Fused Aang has soul-related bfr, where the target is dragged into the fog of lost souls in the spirit world. Even if the YY girl gets her soul back into her body and somehow resists the madness manipulation of the fog, she has no way to get back to the battlefield, which counts as a victory for Aang. And Korra is able to affect souls with her spiritbending, and she can do it to multiple targets at once, so the faerie would also be affected.
If bending needs physical contact to work, the fairies prevent that since they protect the YY girls from any harm. It wouldn't be possible to touch the girls.
As for targeting the fairies with spiritbending, I'm not sure if it would work. See, the fairies are essentially an extention of the god Shinju, like parts of its being. Targeting the fairies with anything essentially translates to targeting Shinju. Putting aside whether a being like Shinju can be affected or not, Shinju is an agglomeration of thousands of different gods having merged together. While Shinju is, in appearance, one entity, all the gods that compose it still have their individuality, aka their own spirit.
 
remove li qiye from 6C and 4A. He has 2C summons now

Also he should get a spot in 2C. He beats danny phantom and yu-gi-oh but don`t know about saber
 
Also he should get a spot in 2C. He beats danny phantom and yu-gi-oh but don`t know about saber
beats yu-gi-oh
can't even bypass the layered power null + invul
wut
Actually, **** it, yugioh pages should prolly be removed from the list anyways, they are outdated to hell and back and are gonna be low 1-C at worst when they get updated
 
Li is smurf as he has 2-C soul/mind hax If these aspects of his are hit by someone so he's only good for tier 2 on this thread.
 
I also have some requested of myself for the list.

Shiro for the free 9th placement of 6-C

Hiyori Sarugaki for the 10th placement of Low 6-B. From reading through Khi'zar Kha'jul's profile, I don't see anything which would allow them to nullify or resist Hiyori's Reiatsu Crush. They also don't have any level of Enhanced Sensing capabilities, which means Hiyori would be invisible and unhearable to Khi's senses. She can also use soul destroying attacks, and induce Corruption (Type 2) while using her Hollow Mask as she produces Hollow Reishi while wearing it. This Reishi induces Poison Manipulation, Statistics Reduction and eventual death through having one's spirit, overtime, be corroded away.
 
Who is the most powerful Dany Phantom (The Universe) character in 2C ?
That depends. The "most powerful" characters in verse aren't the most haxed. Some of them have had they start with, others don't. It depends, who are you trying to through them up against?.

He's one of, not definitively given what other characters might start with.
 
That depends. The "most powerful" characters in verse aren't the most haxed. Some of them have had they start with, others don't. It depends, who are you trying to through them up against?.
Does any Dany Phantom character have a chance against Medea ?

Medea has multiversal+ range and immeasurable attack speed and starts with infinite destroyer.
If they don't resist the infinity destroyer, Medea probably wins.

Infinity Destroyer: Medea can use conceptual attacks to instantly kill her opponents by materializing the concept of death on the target(s) to end their lives. The attack is also imbued with the concept of "bringing an end to all possibilities", allowing it to kill all past, present and future versions of the target(s) and all versions of them in every parallel or divergent world at the same time. She can additionally have the attack destroy the laws of the world and the law of cause and effect.

Also she has immortality type 9 at multiversal+ distance. If you destroy parts of Medea, she will weaken a bit bu will not die.
 
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Does any Dany Phantom character have a chance against Medea ?

Medea has multiversal+ range and immeasurable attack speed and starts with infinite destroyer.
If they don't resist the infinity destroyer, Medea probably wins.

Infinity Destroyer: Medea can use conceptual attacks to instantly kill her opponents by materializing the concept of death on the target(s) to end their lives. The attack is also imbued with the concept of "bringing an end to all possibilities", allowing it to kill all past, present and future versions of the target(s) and all versions of them in every parallel or divergent world at the same time. She can additionally have the attack destroy the laws of the world and the law of cause and effect.

Also she has immortality type 9 at multiversal+ distance.
So it doesn't work on people who exist outside of the timeline/cause and effect? Because it says it kills then across the past, present, future and all possibilities (and parallel worlds) but if the character exists outside of that (the timeline, possibilities, cause and effect) would it even work?. If it can she pretty much destroys everyone including Dark Danny. I can only think of one person she can't beat, probably.

Also her Extrasensory Perception, doesn't seem to cover ghost energy (at least going off the description) since it isn't chi/magic (It comes from pure human emotions), so I'd say Youngblood could beat her since her age means she can't perceive his existence and thus would not know he's even there or who she's fighting. If she can sense spirits like the ones in Danny Phantom (which should be written on her profile if that's the case then she should be able to beat him.

If she can do both of what I mentioned above then she can take the spot without issue since no ghost has resistance to conceptual manipulation to block the conceptual inducement of death upon them.
 
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So it doesn't work on people who exist outside of the timeline/cause and effect? Because it says it kills then across the past, present, future and all possibilities (and parallel worlds) but if the character exists outside of that (the timeline, possibilities, cause and effect) would it even work?. If it can she pretty much destroys everyone including Dark Danny. I can only think of one person she can't beat, probably.
It still works in present, so if they're in the present they still get hit by it even without it affecting them in the past via type 1 acausality or something.
Also her Extrasensory Perception, doesn't seem to cover ghost energy (at least going off the description) since it isn't chi/magic (It comes from pure human emotions), so I'd say Youngblood could beat her since her age means she can't perceive his existence and thus would not know he's even there or who she's fighting. If she can sense spirits like the ones in Danny Phantom (which should be written on her profile if that's the case then she should be able to beat him.
So this is really complicated to think about... Technically her extrasensory perception covers any and all types of "energy" that exists in the infinite multiverse of worlds which includes sci-fi stuff as well as chi, magic, and soul stuff iirc. I can't pull up the statements rn though since the website which house the web novel is down now kek.
 
So it doesn't work on people who exist outside of the timeline/cause and effect?
I guess you're talking about type 4 acausality. Medea can still kill them with the concept of death but can't kill them if they have other versions/clones in alternate timelines/universes.
Also her Extrasensory Perception, doesn't seem to cover ghost energy (at least going off the description) since it isn't chi/magic (It comes from pure human emotions)
I'm not sure if Medea can sense human emotions, I need to check out the web novel. But according to the profiles, ghosts are disembodied spirits born from human emotions, although ghosts originate from human emotions I think perceiving spirits is enough to sense them. (ghosts are ae type 2 not ae type 1). Medea can sense spirits/souls so she can hit them with infinite destroyer.
 
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