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Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

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Bobsican said:
Sounds like Power Absorption for the first scan, and Memory Manip for the second one. As the Power Absorption page notes, it's just Power Null + Power Mimicry in a single slot, and the former is cleanly resisted as said before, while the latter is weird here as the materialization of Sora's powers (the Keyblade) is sentient and doesn't allow itself to be wielded by anyone. Memory Manip is a subset of Mind Manip, which is also resisted here.
Click to expand...
They're both linked to the power absorbtion page but written as [[Power Absorbtion|Power Removal]]. The first one is him removing it, the second one is him erasing it. The second one isn't memory manipulation, I don't know how you came to that conclusion when it explicitly states that his power wiped out of existence.
BcPs7p8.png

Perhaps you thought that because of him squealing in pain. As the first paragraph states, he was resisting the torment of hell. He couldn't put up a resistance anymore since he is now an ordinary person.

He erased his energy arts (abilities/techniques) while the Lokapāla One is a constitution. There are 3000 constitutions you're born with. Yang Qi has the Fateless One although he later gains all 3000 and has them in this key. The novel barely explains some but the regular wiki lists the ones it can. Which made me remember it would also make Yang Qi an Enlightened One (list on that wiki).

Anyways, the former is stealing while the latter is erasing. Sora either resists or not.
Bobsican said:
Sounds more like Accelerated Development than RE, RE requires new P&As or resistances being made, rather than just raising physical stats.
Click to expand...
Raising your cultivation is more than your physical stats though. It is improving every aspect of you and neither could kill nor subdue the other despite the array of abilities they have because of their mutual constant growth. If this and that doesn't convince you, then I have nothing further to say, which reminds me, even if I did convince you, it wouldn't matter as this entire string of posts regarding this was from me telling you he should have it on his profile as he currently does not. So even if I convinced you, I would still need a CRT.
Bobsican said:
The Fate hax isn't layered, it's baseline 6-D. As weird it may sound, Fate hax doesn't require feats of affecting every kind of (within qualitative level) ability to not fall as a NLF, as the core idea of the ability is merely ensuring that a certain destiny applies, which can be achieved by different means than more direct approaches like Power Null, such as "indirectly" rendering the ability out of character in this context. A simpler way to see Fate manip (generally speaking) is just canon plot armor.

Even leaving the Fate hax at a side, Sora has a layered resistance to death manip and time manip. Trapping in a space is weird when he has specific sealing power null for spatial trapping.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this complicates things even further. Yang Qi's own fatehax passively negs all of Sora's non-layered stuff. Also I don't see fate resistance in Sora's profile and he is up against someone whose words manipulate fate.

EkhpmDD.png


Lastly, it doesn't matter if he has those resistance if he can't affect the laws directly. He would only be affecting the subset or manifestation of the laws in question and even he resisted it or nulled said subset/manifestation, the law would still persist.





Edit: If the words = reality thing is confusing, it is a technique he calls the glad tidings of the lord which is powered by fate, turning speech into reality.

C3HWBs1.png
 
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Rakih_Elyan said:
Captain is different lol, his true form live in sea of quanta (11-D construct, look at his AP for scan) and passively manipulating it to create his true form. Hyperion.
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And I would like to see a thread where is confirmed what of his haxs and resistances are 11D, as well if the immortality type 9 is combat applicable (like, if he can send another body before the time limit of SBA), if there is no thread at least a message from Solacis confirming it would be good since he was the one that made the previous thread and is overhauling the verse.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
And I would like to see a thread where is confirmed what of his haxs and resistances are 11D, as well if the immortality type 9 is combat applicable (like, if he can send another body before the time limit of SBA), if there is no thread at least a message from Solacis confirming it would be good since he was the one that made the previous thread and is overhauling the verse.
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He is literally the one who tell me this, alright I will send you some scan.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Yes, because I know as a fact that he is a reliable user that went against the wanking of the verse and work to improve it, hence why I give so much importance to his words in this situation.
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Irrelevant and don't care, I'm not trying to wank the verse and even Solacis said much about Honkai 11-D hax in discord. It is only need someone reasonable thinking to reach that conclusion, with scan no less.

Solacis is just one man, he is not the representative of Honkai supporters.

I will just wait for deceived to to respond.
 
You can remove Danny Phantom characters from 6-C, they are all now High 6-C. Also, I nominate Danny Phantom characters for an open spot in 6-B since the strongest characters got upgraded to that (I'm just applying the updates but Dan Phantom, Danny Phantom and others have already been updated to 6-B)
 
Muchacho_mrm said:
They're both linked to the power absorbtion page but written as [[Power Absorbtion|Power Removal]]. The first one is him removing it, the second one is him erasing it. The second one isn't memory manipulation, I don't know how you came to that conclusion when it explicitly states that his power wiped out of existence.
BcPs7p8.png

Perhaps you thought that because of him squealing in pain. As the first paragraph states, he was resisting the torment of hell. He couldn't put up a resistance anymore since he is now an ordinary person.

He erased his energy arts (abilities/techniques) while the Lokapāla One is a constitution. There are 3000 constitutions you're born with. Yang Qi has the Fateless One although he later gains all 3000 and has them in this key. The novel barely explains some but the regular wiki lists the ones it can. Which made me remember it would also make Yang Qi an Enlightened One (list on that wiki).

Anyways, the former is stealing while the latter is erasing. Sora either resists or not.
Click to expand...
Well, thing is that "erasing" here is very vague, so it was more of a wild guess in lack of options. In that case then it'd be defaulted into just being power null, which'd still be resisted. Sora also resists EE (at least 27 layers) if we want to go the literal way for some reason.

Muchacho_mrm said:
Raising your cultivation is more than your physical stats though. It is improving every aspect of you and neither could kill nor subdue the other despite the array of abilities they have because of their mutual constant growth. If this and that doesn't convince you, then I have nothing further to say, which reminds me, even if I did convince you, it wouldn't matter as this entire string of posts regarding this was from me telling you he should have it on his profile as he currently does not. So even if I convinced you, I would still need a CRT.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid that'd be the case, yeah.

Muchacho_mrm said:
Yeah, this complicates things even further. Yang Qi's own fatehax passively negs all of Sora's non-layered stuff. Also I don't see fate resistance in Sora's profile and he is up against someone whose words manipulate fate.

EkhpmDD.png


Lastly, it doesn't matter if he has those resistance if he can't affect the laws directly. He would only be affecting the subset or manifestation of the laws in question and even he resisted it or nulled said subset/manifestation, the law would still persist.

Edit: If the words = reality thing is confusing, it is a technique he calls the glad tidings of the lord which is powered by fate, turning speech into reality.

C3HWBs1.png
Click to expand...
Thing is that this clearly is an actively triggered ability, rather than a true passive that simply would happen earlier than it to begin with as said before (thus preventing it). Sora also resists death manip (at least 27 layers as usual).

Sora has type 4 acausality with an ability that was specifically used to override a predestined outcome.
 
Bobsican said:
The Fate hax isn't layered, it's baseline 6-D. As weird it may sound, Fate hax doesn't require feats of affecting every kind of (within qualitative level) ability to not fall as a NLF, as the core idea of the ability is merely ensuring that a certain destiny applies, which can be achieved by different means than more direct approaches like Power Null, such as "indirectly" rendering the ability out of character in this context. A simpler way to see Fate manip (generally speaking) is just canon plot armor.
Click to expand...
Why does fate hax matter when you are trying to say it works on someone with acausality type 5 on a 6D level, that also has both acausality type 2, NEP, and transduality which all include fate within their scope of what they make him exist outside
 
Bobsican said:
Well, thing is that "erasing" here is very vague, so it was more of a wild guess in lack of options. In that case then it'd be defaulted into just being power null, which'd still be resisted. Sora also resists EE (at least 27 layers) if we want to go the literal way for some reason.
Click to expand...
It isn't powernull, even if the Power Absorption page says "it is a combination of Power Mimicry and Nullification", it literally also says "This may not be accomplished through literal absorption, but it can be, among a number of other potential means.". Sora's ability is being EE'ed. He either resists or not like I already said.
Bobsican said:
Thing is that this clearly is an actively triggered ability, rather than a true passive that simply would happen earlier than it to begin with as said before (thus preventing it). Sora also resists death manip (at least 27 layers as usual).

Sora has type 4 acausality with an ability that was specifically used to override a predestined outcome.
Click to expand...
Of-course it is an active ability, he also has passive fate. Not sure why you mentioned death manipulation again, as it wouldn't matter. You're mentioning just one aspect of the application.


Sorry but I will not be replying further regarding this. Sora can't interact with nor even see Yang Qi, not to mention Yang Qi's AP passively crushes Sora both physically and spiritually. Even how Sora can even react to any of Yang Qi's abilities he doesn't already resist is up to debate. The topic is what Yang Qi can do to Sora, not the other way around and from our conversation and after another view of Sora's profile, I see abilities he doesn't resist.

Sora may as well be a target dummy at this point. So once I have finished my EER conquest, I will create a Sora vs Yang Qi match.
 
deonment said:
Why does fate hax matter when you are trying to say it works on someone with acausality type 5 on a 6D level, that also has both acausality type 2, NEP, and transduality which all include fate within their scope of what they make him exist outside
Click to expand...
The key with type 5 acausality is being ignored as apparently that's quite dubious to use right now.

Muchacho_mrm said:
Sage Monarch's theme is transcendence. Going from a lower world to a higher world. Reaching a certain level forces you to ascend to a higher world lest you eventually destroy the one you're on. As in not being able to be there in person, which also true for 5D Yang Qi. The highest world that exists is the God World. Because the God World is the last world, you can't transcend to a higher one because none exist. You can be on the same plane of existence as the God World, even create your own world similar or superior to it but above you (figuratively), no world exists. After some stuff happened, Yang Qi took his own world and transcended the God World's plane of existence, remaining a legend and seemingly never reached by characters until the novel ends... As in, his world became the higher world...And then the novel ended. Ideally, using his third key for a match feels weird because it should be another tier. In the future once he gets a solid tier, then his tier can be properly used, so I am fine if people ignore it and its one listed ability.
Click to expand...

Planck69 said:
Fate-hax goes womp womp at Type 4 Acausality of the same dimensionality, let alone what Yang "Fateless One" Qi has.
Click to expand...

Muchacho_mrm said:
Of-course it is an active ability, he also has passive fate. Not sure why you mentioned death manipulation again, as it wouldn't matter. You're mentioning just one aspect of the application.
Click to expand...

The rest is fairly valid, although Sora has NPI to hit NEP stuff, and the transduality is left a bit vague on the page, the blog post linked merely explains the duality involved and how Yang Qi falls in neither (and both?) of the sides of it, but then doesn't explain if it has feats of granting invulnerability to stuff bound to either duality, as nowadays that's also a criteria for transduality (or qualitative superiority, which would probably be irrelevant then for someone at the same dimensional level).

Muchacho_mrm said:
It isn't powernull, even if the Power Absorption page says "it is a combination of Power Mimicry and Nullification", it literally also says "This may not be accomplished through literal absorption, but it can be, among a number of other potential means.". Sora's ability is being EE'ed. He either resists or not like I already said.
Click to expand...
Well, thing is that these "other means" are also quite vague in general for our purposes, and strictly speaking it's still just Power Nullification and Power Mimicry at the same time, so nothing changes, semantics matter and all. If you're going to be persistent on this then bother clarifying which P&A resistances theoretically would be required to resist it.

Muchacho_mrm said:

Sorry but I will not be replying further regarding this. Sora can't interact with nor even see Yang Qi, not to mention Yang Qi's AP passively crushes Sora both physically and spiritually. Even how Sora can even react to any of Yang Qi's abilities he doesn't already resist is up to debate. The topic is what Yang Qi can do to Sora, not the other way around and from our conversation and after another view of Sora's profile, I see abilities he doesn't resist.
Click to expand...
Sora's Scan ability (which directly works based on type 1 CM and type 2 info) allows him to perceive a target even if invisible, I presume you say this from the transduality? I'd appreciate more details if so. Sora has an ability that prevents him being one shot normally (Second Chance and Once More, they're in the Notable Attacks/Techniques section of the profile), even with passive damage.

The topic was merely who netically has more potent offensive abilities, as much Tokyo Babel got removed from the non-smurf list by barely having any hax even if they could incon a good portion of characters with type 5 acausality, compared to characters with offensive hax netically actually winning quite more. You're just simply pushing this into a "who beats who", which while not necessarily a bad thing, is a bit inaccurate for the purposes of the list.

Muchacho_mrm said:
Sora may as well be a target dummy at this point. So once I have finished my EER conquest, I will create a Sora vs Yang Qi match.
Click to expand...
Okay, I suppose, good luck!
 
Bobsican said:
The rest is fairly valid, although Sora has NPI to hit NEP stuff, and the transduality is left a bit vague on the page, the blog post linked merely explains the duality involved and how Yang Qi falls in neither (and both?) of the sides of it, but then doesn't explain if it has feats of granting invulnerability to stuff bound to either duality, as nowadays that's also a criteria for transduality (or qualitative superiority, which would probably be irrelevant then for someone at the same dimensional level).
Click to expand...
that NEP doesn't cover fate, however, which Yang Qi's NEP does, in addition to his other acausalities which still just makes the fate hax point moot here
 
I'm just here to clarify something since Kirinator tried to bring this up in another thread, when it says this in the rules:
  • Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themselves. Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology.
Does the "same applies to tiers via technology" mean that they have to be buffed with technology in both AP and Dura or does just AP work? Also would environmental destruction via technology in that tier count even if it doesn't buff Dura? Probably a somewhat stupid question but I just want to make sure I'm not in the wrong here when I said no.
 
deonment said:
that NEP doesn't cover fate, however, which Yang Qi's NEP does, in addition to his other acausalities which still just makes the fate hax point moot here
Click to expand...
NEP including fate you mean? Isn't that just an Acausality type plus NEP? I already conceded the fate hax point here beyond that.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
Dude can hit NEP Type 3, not type 2
Click to expand...
Oh, I forgot about the planned CRT I had on that on that, fair for now, however.
 
dawg i dont think D (vampire hunter D) should be here since he isn't physically Low 1-C, he is Low 1-C with akashic records
 
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