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Toneri Hax Revision

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Exactly. Its obvious Toneri wouldnt try to kill the one he wanted to marry so the cage had to have been a real one

That said what about attacks like Toneri's Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion? If TSB's are essentially just energy as some say then wouldnt his attacks, also energy, carry the same properties as a TSB? Meaning it would erase anyone it touches who doesnt have resistant to its hax?
 
Specific timeframe of TSB negating rasenshuriken? Wasn't he in Sage mode?

Any evidence for those claims, besides "it happens alot" i may not remember, wanna trigger my memory? It maybe something else and you're confusing it with Matter Manipulation. any chances of matter in Naruto having chakra?
 
Also now that i just noticed even if the cage had properties like a TSB, I still dont think Hinata would be erased

Afterall, incase anyone is forgetting Hinata has some of Hamura's chakra within her which is what let her and Naruto destroy the Tenseigan mechanism in the first place without falling under its "curse". And IIRC, Hamura's chakra is resistant to the TSB's
 
Hamura is listed as a Sixth Paths Chibaku Tense user in the databook.

Those with the Sage of Sixth Paths chakra are resistant.

Considering a large TSB can create a a pocket dimension I find no need for such a large discussion on whether or not, a small one can create a cage...
 
[I]AppleLord said:
My bad Naruto's chakra was use to move the moon. He only needed the Byakugan. Also, is there any confirmation that those are really TSB?[/I]
Click to expand...
[I]TheMightyRegulator said:
[/I] No, but there are no other floating black orbs capable of changing their shapes at will and negating ninjutsus.
Click to expand...
But's don't change the fact that you said, that there is no evidence of them been TSB.
 
You asked whether there was confirmation. There isn't. That's not the same as evidence.

It's pretty aburd to think authors should repeat the name of techniques every time they're used, else they'll be discarded.

That's like saying sage mode was never used in The Last, despite there being the characteristic markings.
 
There is no evidence or confirmation in the end. Naruto use Juubi mode and Sage mode combine, evidence, look at his eyes. Toneri's "TSB" didn't negated Ninjutsu nor did it kill Hinata on contact.
 
Negation has never been depicted in the way you're thinking. The only time a TSB has failed to negate something is Madara's light fang which resulted in said TSB being destroyed.

When the TSB changes form it still maintains its appearance and chakra properties. Does that look like a TSB to you? No. Then why would it kill anyone? Especially one with Hamura's chakra?

Repeating yourself isn't a rebuttal.
 
Stating your opinion base on speculation isn't a rebuttal. When you can prove your claims is truly a rebuttal which currently you've fail at. I don't have to repeat myself, since you have prove nothing, my point still stands. I'll wait for that burden of proof of yours to be enlightened upon us. Until then we have nothing else to discuss on the matter.
 
TMR is a retired administrator, and handles our Naruto scaling issues. Show some respect.
 
You not taking something into consideration, doesn't make it nonexistent.

(And even more evidence. Several big bang rasengans were completely unable to penetrate Toneri's shield and yet a single rasengan was able to break Toneri's shield by hurtling him through it).
 
If they arent TSB's then what else would they be? There's no such thing as black orbs in Naruto that aren't called TSB's. And using the "cage not erasing Hinata" argument over and over doesnt disprove this at all, especially when its holding someone with Hamura's chakra. If anything it further supports other things.

Your right, it may be an assumption, but is also a very good and concrete assumption to make that is likely very accurate. Hell there are characters here who are what they are based on more than likely accurate assumptions as well. Saying this can't be a TSB just because there's no confirmation when more depicts it as one and is to logically be a TSB anyway is not only wrong, its also rather ridiculous.

So in all, following TMR's statement and gladly appreciated opinion, I think this solify's the said hax being added. Along with Durability Negation as a possible addition as well

PS: I just noticed this as a possible additon too. Since Toneri, and well, any Sage of Six Paths user, can not only touch, use and manipulate TSB's, but also eve produce and create them out of their own chakra, shouldnt they also have somewhat of a resistance to Nullifying Hax?

After all, as mentioned above, TSB's are esstentially just orbs of energy that nullify all other eneriges (Except nature energy). But if the orbs are being created by the users of them, then that would mean the users own chakra has the said nullifying properties as well. Furthermore, users of the TSB seem to be able to do whats stated above without being negatively affected by their own TSB's, further implying that they are (or rather should) be very resistant to the TSB's effects.

Examples-

  • Naruto with So6P power being able to kick away a TSB casually and even use one of them as a stepping pad. Same with Sasuke
  • Madara having a TSB staff he can hold and be completely fine. And also Hagoromo too I believe
  • Obito making barriers and swords out of TSB's that he can hold and hide inside too
  • Hinata not being erased by the cage Toneri made due to having Hamura's chakra (assuming the cage is even like the TSB's however)
And if accepted, this would also have to be given to Obito, Madara, Kaguya and possibly Naruto too.

Any issues?
 
You do know that his power comes from the Tenseigan, which means that if you accept this (I won't waist my time arguing this anymore, i already said what i wanted to say) it would only apply to Toneri and his green chakra mode.
 
Kaguya already has space-time manipulation.

I don't agree Obito, Madara and Naruto gaining abilities they haven't shown that aren't inate abilities of the TSB as the efficiency in usage between them from user to user varies for example, Naruto can change its shape, but he's never been able to make it cover his entire body (and it was also noted the shapes Obito can create with the TSB are limited).
 
Fair enough but im sure Obito and Madara have to an extent. Otherwise they would not only be able to hold the things they make out of TSB's, like Madara's staff or Obitios sword, they would also be erased by them. But its not something im pushing for them to get so its fine if its not accurate

So back on topic, Matter Manipulation and Durability Negation are a thing for Toneri then?
 
Wasn't it Hiruzen that theorized that the shapes he can create with it are limited? Because that was never confirmed.

Would the hax apply to others? Like, I'm pretty sure Hagoromo should be better than Toneri with the use of the TSBs.
 
I agree with that. Hagoromo, given his status, shoud easily be capable of using a TSB far more than Toneri can

Pretty sure all of the So6P users, Kaguya especially, are>>>>>>Toneri in terms of TSB usage and manipulation
 
Hagoromo and Obito for shaping the world with it, maybe, Kaguya for creating her dimension, sure, I don't see the point of adding it to anyone else on the basis of technicalities.

(About the durability negation, the DB mentioned Naruto's immense chakra prevented him from being hurt. This implies comparable beings may not be affected).
 
What about other people like Naruto, Hamura and Madara? Shouldn't they get it too? The TSBs are malleable. Everyone should be able to use it. Obito didn't shape the world with it.
 
I would like to list the abilities the characters actually displayed...

Burning Full Fingers said:
Obito didn't shape the world with it.
Click to expand...
The Sage was said to shape the world with the sword of Nunoboko, Obito gained use of it.
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
(About the durability negation, the DB mentioned Naruto's immense chakra prevented him from being hurt. This implies comparable beings may not be affected).
Click to expand...
DB?

And really? I thought it was because Naruto had Sage Chakra/Nature Energy which is the only form of energy that resists the TSB.

But if not then yea I can see that. So Durabilty Negation for those who are equal to or weaker than the user?
 
IIRC, Madara hasnt really shown any good manipulation feats over the TSB's that can be compared to Toneri's so him getting it is debatable

Obito, highly possible given his use of the TSB such as making barriers, swords, creating the world, etc.

Naruto, most likely not. He only has like one feat of using the TSB's and hardly uses them anyway.

Kaguya, Hagoromo and Hamura definitely should get it

Does Momoshiki and Kinshiki have usage of TSB'S?
 
Data book, which isn't very reliable but should at least be considered.

Sage energy is just the Juubi's weakness. It doesn't make the users immune (Sage Minato was torn to shreds) though yes, Sage energy can make the TSB lose cohesion.

Sage of Sixth Paths users are obviously immune, though I think whether this is due to natural immunity or them being around the same level of power shoukd be discussed (after all,it was affirmed Kaguya's ETSB would kill all of them).
 
@Anime as of now, neither Momoshiki or kinshiki have shown TSB, maybe that will get retconned in the next chapter of the boruto manga with Momoshiki's new form.
 
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