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Toneri Hax Revision

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I still think all of them should get it. If they do the same things with it, it would be boring.

Madara also used them as a shield. He was compared to Hagoromo by Hagoromo himself. He suffered from a lot of CIS. I'm sure he should be superior to Toneri. I think he also used it as a staff but I'm not sure.

Naruto used them as staffs and a platform for Sasuke to stand on. I'm sure all the users can use it how they want. Except for the Sword of Nunoboko. They are malleable after all. It's not like they have to create the same thing. Naruto's not the type of person that will create shields or barriers to protect himself.

I don't remember either Momoshiki or Kinshiki using them. But I've not watched the movie so I'm not sure.
 
I think they did, to create weapons.

You can always ask admins for their input you know. Kamiyasha and Kkapoios are well versed in Naruto.
 
oh yea i forgot that....

Well seeing both have byakugan and rinnegan....its highly likely they have sage of six paths chakra. In addition to them being even comparable to Kaguya herself....
 
My bad just Kinshiki. Tho according to the wiki Kinshiki can absorb Ninjutsu like a rinnegan can in order to use the chakra to make weapons.
 
What ability is being given to Toneri for using his TSBs to create his Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion? Because I believe it should apply to Naruto as well since he used his TSB to create a Bijuudama Rasenshuriken.
 
Well, if accepted, the hax he'd get for using TSB to create GWRE would be something like Durability Negation or a Nullification hax since the attack should still possess the same properties as the TSB's that formed it, especially when both are energy regardless
 
TheMightyRegulator said:
Sage of Sixth Paths users are obviously immune, though I think whether this is due to natural immunity or them being around the same level of power shoukd be discussed (after all,it was affirmed Kaguya's ETSB would kill all of them).
Click to expand...
Actually I just thought

Yes, the ETSB was definitely going to kill all of them

BUT

Instead of through greater raw AP

Shouldn't the ETSB being able to create dimensions by itself be able to kill them? As in, it's extremely doubtful that Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi and Obito could survive in the reset of a whole dimension....

IF so, then it might lean more to immunity since the ETSB wouldnt need greater power actually. It could just recreae the entire dimension and eliminate them right there. Right?
 
Dunno. I've always wondered about how Kakashi would have died from that attack since he can become intangible. But I thought the explosion would last for more than five minutes and eventually kill Kakashi when his intangibility deactivates. Like Obito vs Konan.
 
Right but, IIRC, Kaguya was going to erase the entire space-time of that dimension using TSB

I doubt Intangibility would be able to defend against that

And wouldnt the ETSB give Kaguya (and ONLY Kaguya) resistance to limited Space-Time manipulation since it can erase the entire dimensions Space-Time?
 
Hmm. Don't really know about Space-Time stuff. Let's settle the matter of Matter Manipulation for the Toneri and the god tiers and Durability Negation for Toneri and Naruto first. Then we can discuss about others.
 
Because both created those techniques out of TSB's, which are essentially spheres of energy.

Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion and Naruto's Bijuudama Rasenshuriken are energy techniques, meaning both should be able to keep the same properties and nullifying abilities as the TSB's as both are made of energy and the techniques being formed as they have been portrayed would not be like changing into a completely different structure, like Toneri's cage.
 
The TSB's also contain five different nature elements while the blasts aren't. Also, they are clearly depicted as being different from the energy blasts else the entire thing would be redundant.
 
That part yea. We still need to debate and decide about the other haxes. But as for Matter Manipulation, yep. Was agreed to via majority above
 
Matter Manipulation wil bring a new level of NLF in versus, if accepted it should be limited to what was shown, it also means that they can't fully control matter just the TSB.
 
How is Matter Manipulation NLF? Anyone with resistance/immunity to it can easily no sell it.......

And there is no reason why its only limited to the TSB and its quite absurd to argue as such as well
 
Has Naruto or anyone else use this power to create a chair even? We cannot assume that suddenly they can create a car out of nothing. Or control the matter of a human being and turn him into a dog. It has limits, like everything else. Or can we say that Toneri can reshape the whole Universe since is matter? NLF.
 
Why assume the whole "universe" when no one in Naruto, not even Kaguya, is remotely close to that at all? The ETSB (and well, Kaguya) is far above that of Toneri and his TSB and the best they have shown to manipulate is a pocket dimension. Saying he can manipulate a whole universe (when I dont even see how thats possible without mid level reality warping which he obviously does not have) is ridiculous

And as for the others, its debatable on whether or not they should get it or Toneri alone gets it. THe god tiers however, if accpeted for Toneri, are definitely getting it for obvious reasons
 
they can create trees out of nothing, why is this such a big deal, its not like they became Molecule Man.
 
There is no such thing as a bad example when it comes to NLF.

As stated "if" is not a No Limit Fallacy as you say.

Then I guess Naruto characters can create Planets, stars, solar systems, galaxys and Universes with Matter Manipulation.

However, if they cannot create "something" as you conceded, then they do have a limit.

Which means that No Limit Fallacy applies to it, as any other ability not use by Omnipotent beings.

My whole argument is that Matter Manipulation has a limit like any other ability, depending on the user.
 
Well, if we just write that they have the matter manipulation ability in their Powers & Abilities sections, I think that people will understand that it is limited to their stated tiers.
 
@Ant

It'd be best post an explanation as well, to define the exact limits and uses of their Matter Manipulation.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, if we just write that they have the matter manipulation ability in their Powers & Abilities sections, I think that people will understand that it is limited to their stated tiers.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
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