• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Tohou ability downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
DionicioSB said:
would you care to explain that basic logic to me?
Click to expand...
Touhou Downgrade ability is only the title, and we're focusing what the OP wanted to downgrade, not some randos saying this and this should be downgraded, no CRT downgrade will be concluded if randos coming in and saying this should be downgraded.
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
Touhou Downgrade ability is only the title, and we're focusing what the OP wanted to downgrade, not some randos saying this and this should be downgraded
Click to expand...
Then they would've been more specific in their thread's title, I'm sorry you don't understand that, it's not my problem.
 
Pixy said:
Calm down You two We need to deal one by one And pls try not to bring new topic for now and pls sympathize to staff and people who working on this
Click to expand...
Alright, now onto the topic, Fantasy Nature's ability isn't past the entirety of existence, only the existence of reality, am I correct on this?
 
DionicioSB said:
Alright, now onto the topic, Fantasy Nature's ability isn't past the entirety of existence, only the existence of reality, am I correct on this?
Click to expand...
IDK for this one , also this is not what " we " interest now, Cuz People and stuff are dealing with Touhou's Nep, TD and CPT staff so If you good luck You'll have Expert who know about this answer but if not You probably wait for answer
And pls do not bring more staff for this thread for now Cuz Current Staff isn't clear yet
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
I do believe that they are nonexistent down to their concept, they don't have a name and is stated to be primordial nothingness
Click to expand...
But that's not true, they're not Non-existent on a Conceptual level, they are completely unbound on a Conceptual level, which is far more impressive.

Arguably enough for an Upgrade, if you guys can find sufficient proof of ideas that would be very powerful, the Gods would automatically be above them.

OnsokunoSonic said:
Also, conceptual transcendence physiology sounds cool, what can it do, btw?
Click to expand...
It was an idea I had a while ago, it's a similar page to the Beyond Dimensional Physiology but for Conception.

It's for characters who transcend conception on many levels, ranging from the Mind's conception to higher axioms of Conception.

It would give you the obvious (resistance to Conceptual Manipulation) but for the most part, it would make you virtually untouchable to entities of a lower conceptual rung than the character.
 
Udlmaster said:
But that's not true, they're not Non-existent on a Conceptual level, they are completely unbound on a Conceptual level, which is far more impressive.

Arguably enough for an Upgrade, if you guys can find sufficient proof of ideas that would be very powerful, the Gods would automatically be above them.


It was an idea I had a while ago, it's a similar page to the Beyond Dimensional Physiology but for Conception.

It's for characters who transcend conception on many levels, ranging from the Mind's conception to higher axioms of Conception.

It would give you the obvious (resistance to Conceptual Manipulation) but for the most part, it would make you virtually untouchable to entities of a lower conceptual rung than the character.
Click to expand...
honestly this ability should be official
 
Which staff members have commented in this thread so far, and what were their conclusions?
 
Uld's interpretation seems okay to proceed with.
Arguably enough for an Upgrade, if you guys can find sufficient proof of ideas that would be very powerful, the Gods would automatically be above them.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'll make one in given time 👀

I'll let hecatia and onsokuno decide if they want to go with Uld's idea.
 
Udlmaster said:
I think Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 is fine as it is, since the criticism seems to be more levied towards the Gods, not the concepts they create. As in Mountain of Faith, Sanae Kochiya says "When people lose faith in gods, the gods lose their power. They can't manifest their divine virtues. This is the same as death, for a god.", they don't stop existing or die, they just lose their powers, like I said above, it just depowers them, not their concepts.

As for Transdualism, I agree with the removal, the single citation for it (And feel free to correct me) seems to be very vague and too open to give Transdualism.

As for Non-Existence Physiology, I don't really agree with it being on the profiles too, as the Perfect Memento in Strict Sense portion states, it's that they were everything before Names.

It seems less Non-Existence and more Omnipresence. They still existed, they were just everything, and naming them filters them down.

This ties in with other entities who become Gods themselves, like Mizue no Uranoshimako.
Click to expand...


Can you tell me which Perfect Memento in Strict Sense 's Episode ?

I will find this info for Prove your Idea

Cuz Hecatia have Info that prove thier Idea

And You have a little bit info for Prove your Idea

So if you don't mind me pls tell which Episode or Atlease Which Character said that
I'll find it for you
 
Last edited:
Shmooply said:
What happened here...?
Yea, transduality is absolutely a no-go, remove that from their profiles.
Click to expand...

There Debate Between Hecatia and OnSokuSonic Including me too( Who made Touhou Deities Upgrade ) Who think Godly Nature is Nep 2 and Trans 2 and Udlmaster Who Support Idea Godly Nature is CPT
( Conceptual Transcendent Physiology )

Now Me and Onsukusonic is interested in CPT Idea now I'll wait for Hecatia's answer maybe they'll interest in CPT too
 
Udlmaster said:
It was an idea I had a while ago, it's a similar page to the Beyond Dimensional Physiology but for Conception.

It's for characters who transcend conception on many levels, ranging from the Mind's conception to higher axioms of Conception.

It would give you the obvious (resistance to Conceptual Manipulation) but for the most part, it would make you virtually untouchable to entities of a lower conceptual rung than the character.
Click to expand...
Cool
 
Pixy said:
Ok Let's make Conclusion
@Hecatia_Gaming @OnsokunoSonic
What do you think what is Touhou's Godly Nature Mean ? Nep 2 & Tran 2 ?

@Udlmaster
What do you think what is Touhou's Godly Nature Mean ? CPT ? & ETC . ?
Click to expand...
I think it's currently just being unbound by Concepts, so Immunity to Conceptual Manipulation [of the same level].

I also think that the statement is enough for an upgrade, I do remember Higher Dimensional realities existing in Touhou, like Quantum Physics stuff, which would mean that a God must have both named it into existence, and also that all Gods are beyond Quantum Physics.
 
Can somebody list the staff members who have responded to this thread previously please?
 
Hmm. Can somebody write easy to understand explanations of the arguments here so far in a single post, so I can ask some staff members to help us out here then?
 
Uldmaster's argument is that being "unbound by all concepts" isn't necessarily transcending dual systems in the more definitive manner, therefore thinks we should go with the idea of "Beyond Conceptual Physiology", and Immunity to all concepts. Since preceding something isn't entirely proof of transcendence as it is vague. Uld also thinks that conceptual manipulation type 1 is fine.

Hecatia and onsokuno's is that because they do precede dual systems and existed as "nothingness before all concepts" it does qualify as Transdualism type 2 and NEP type 2. Basically they aren't really "anything" and are outside the physical world in a formless manner. They were the form of all things before concepts were made.

I'm pretty sure there's more to both sides but they'll likely need to make a tl;dr about that on their own.
 
Okay. I will wait for each of them then. Thank you for helping out.
 
Guardian_Doge said:
Uldmaster's argument is that being "unbound by all concepts" isn't necessarily transcending dual systems in the more definitive manner, therefore thinks we should go with the idea of "Beyond Conceptual Physiology", and Immunity to all concepts. Since preceding something isn't entirely proof of transcendence as it is vague. Uld also thinks that conceptual manipulation type 1 is fine.

Hecatia and onsokuno's is that because they do precede dual systems and existed as "nothingness before all concepts" it does qualify as Transdualism type 2 and NEP type 2. Basically they aren't really "anything" and are outside the physical world in a formless manner. They were the form of all things before concepts were made.

I'm pretty sure there's more to both sides but they'll likely need to make a tl;dr about that on their own.
Click to expand...
I believe what Hecatia meant was the nature of "names", which are the very concept of boundaries that split "name of two seperate things" in their dualist nature.

Like Yukari's way of manipulating the boundaries regarding dualist as well as aligned definitions included but not really limited to: "Science and Magic", "Particle and Wave", "Life and Death", "Day and Night", "Fantasy and Reality" which she used to seperate Gensokyo from the Outside World's burdening effect over Youkai's; doing that by seperating "common sense" of the Outside World from Gensokyo, and the list goes on.

Yukari is considered to be on par with "Yaoyorozu no Kami" due to her ability to manipulate boundaries, which is highly referred as "names" as well in the series.

I don't really see why people object against Transduality (Type 2), didn't Yaoyorozu no Kami, like, named the very concepts that makes up our definition over "duality"?
 
Last edited:
NothingToDebateWith said:
I believe what Hecatia meant was the nature of "names", which are the very concept of boundaries that split "name of two seperate things" in their dualist nature.

Like Yukari's way of manipulating the boundaries regarding dualist as well as aligned definitions included but not really limited to: "Science and Magic", "Particle and Wave", "Life and Death", "Day and Night", "Fantasy and Reality" which she used to seperate Gensokyo from the burdening effect over Youkai's; regarding common sense of the Outside World, and the list goes on.

Yukari is considered to be on par with "Yaoyorozu no Kami" due to her ability to manipulate boundaries, which is highly referred as "names" as well in the series.

I don't really see why people object against Transduality (Type 2), didn't Yaoyorozu no Kami, like, named the very concepts that makes up our definition over "duality"?
Click to expand...
Thx bro So Conclusion Both side are Right so I leave your decide to you all I'm ok with all Option I just want most accurate info for making all of us Understand
 
Last edited:
Udlmaster said:
But that's not true, they're not Non-existent on a Conceptual level, they are completely unbound on a Conceptual level, which is far more impressive.
Click to expand...
It sounds like they're a transcendent nothingness, really something like NEP3 (Take a look at TSW)
Udlmaster said:
It was an idea I had a while ago, it's a similar page to the Beyond Dimensional Physiology but for Conception.

It's for characters who transcend conception on many levels, ranging from the Mind's conception to higher axioms of Conception.

It would give you the obvious (resistance to Conceptual Manipulation) but for the most part, it would make you virtually untouchable to entities of a lower conceptual rung than the character.
Click to expand...
But we currently don't have that, thus many people will ask if we just pull out "Deities are beyond concepts" out of our butt and will be sus, we need a replacement for this thing.
 
Ant meant staff members who actually talked in this thread. We could use some input from Elizhaa as he's knowledgable on Touhou, not sure about Griffin though.
 
Like I said, transduality is kinda reaching but if someone can word it then it can happen, I just won't be the one that do it.
NEP2 on the other hand seems very legit to me, they're described as primordial nothigness (transcendent, even) that precede concepts itself.
Beyond Conceptual Physiology won't do here since that term doesn't exist yet and we can't insert that into the profiles can we? Does anyone got any idea for a replacement for this Beyond Conceptual Physiology?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

LordGinSama
Another Reid downgrade
4 5 6
Replies
201
Views
12K
Zabazab
Zabazab
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
  • Locked
Minor Nameless God Update [Touhou]
Replies
26
Views
2K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Rutæhh
  • Locked
The Secret Names of All Things | Greenverse Revival CRT PT 2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Rutæhh
Rutæhh
Quintessence_PE
YanSen CM Type 1 and Resistance
Replies
30
Views
1K
Quintessence_PE
Quintessence_PE
Mr. Bambu
  • Locked
Project Zomboid Downgrade
Replies
11
Views
638
Mr. Bambu
Mr. Bambu
Back
Top